Thread: Syria: Not as important as Libya.

Ohoh, you are a bit of a bullshitter on Middle East Affairs. Please tell me which of the countries in the region in which you have worked. Or even visited.

I think you're a little bit full of shit.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I think you're a little bit full of shit.

facts speak otherwise, dumb shit

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Or even visited.

when was the last time you visited your brain

Originally Posted by OhOh

Have you any knowledge of history? An unprovoked attack eh, lets look at the game play and let a few of our stuffed media folks run with ..... No. 3 fits the situation, let it run.

you are arguing with ordinary RWA followers, what their government says is the truth, nothing else matters, and certainly not independent thinking or moral sensibility

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

If that's true, what on earth makes you think Assad isn't capable of doing what he's doing?

Hell, we all know that people do stupid horrible things there is not a fag paper between us there.

After watching the consequences of the "liberation" of Libya, the propaganda spewed out of the MSM and the lying by the western politicians I felt ashamed to be a British citizen. During my travels around the world I have been asked about why the British are involved constantly in killing other people. It is not something I care to be associated with.

The answer to that question is obvious: Because we do whatever the septics tell us to.

How on earth does that justify what Assad is doing?

16 December 2011 Last updated at 01:48 GMT Syria crisis: Russia circulates surprise UN resolution



Some Syrians opposed to President Assad have formed the Free Syria Army



Russia has circulated a UN Security Council resolution aimed at resolving the crisis in Syria, in a move that surprised Western nations. The draft condemns the violence by both Syria's government and the opposition, but does not mention sanctions.
Western nations said the proposal was not tough enough but that they were prepared to work on the document.
The West has been pushing the council to act on Syria for months, but Russia and China have vetoed such proposals.
In the latest violence in Syria, 27 security forces members were reportedly killed by army deserters.
The London-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the deaths occurred in the restive southern province of Deraa.
International journalists face severe restrictions on their movements in Syria, and it is hard to verify reports.
The UN believes more than 5,000 people have been killed in nine months of unrest, which the government of President Bashar al-Assad blames on "armed terrorist gangs".
In a recent interview with the US network ABC, he insisted he had given no orders for violence to be used against protesters.
Russia circulated the draft resolution among the other 14 UN Security Council members on Thursday. Analysis Barbara Plett BBC UN correspondent


Western diplomats say they are willing to negotiate the draft, but they want changes - such as much stronger language on human rights abuses, and endorsement of Arab League sanctions.
Crucially they say the resolution should spell out that Damascus is primarily responsible for the violence, and not assign equal blame to the government and the opposition.
Negotiations will be tough, but there is more hope now than there was even a day ago that some kind of resolution might be agreed.

Russia's permanent representative to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, said the document urged an end to the violence, but did not mention any sanctions.
"The reaction of colleagues in the Security Council was very constructive," he said.
"They made a number of comments as to the text... and we said that we were looking forward to working with them, in order to adopt a text, a resolution of the security council, which will really bring about an end to violence and crisis in Syria."
The draft demands that "all parties" in Syria stop violence.
But it also includes a new reference to "disproportionate use of force by Syrian authorities", in what is seen by some analysts as toughening of Moscow's position towards Damascus.
The document also "urges the Syrian government to put an end to suppression of those exercising their rights to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association".
Western diplomats said the current draft did not fully reflect the gravity of the human rights situation in Syria, but added that they would negotiate on the text.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that there were "some issues in it that we would not be able to support".
"There's unfortunately a seeming parity between the government and peaceful protesters and then other Syrians who are trying to defend themselves, but we are going to study the draft carefully."
But Mrs Clinton added: "Hopefully we can work with the Russians."
The US and its European allies insist that the government in Damascus must bear primary responsibility for the violence.
Russia accuses the West of trying to use the UN to force regime change in Syria.
In October, Russia and China vetoed European draft resolution that contained a threat of sanctions.

Iran says Arab deal on Syria "acceptable" - TV

Reuters – 1 hour 41 minutes ago




TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran welcomed as "acceptable" an Arab peace deal signed by Syria on Monday that aims to end nine months of unrest against the rule of President Bashar al-Assad, a senior official told an Iranian Arabic language news channel.
"Whatever is accepted by President Assad is an acceptable act in Iran's view," Iran's Deputy Foreign Minister Amir Abdollahi told Al Alam television.
"Of course some modifications could be considered in the plan ... However, many of Iran's standpoints have been considered in the deal," he told the station.
Syria agreed on Monday to let Arab League observers into the country to monitor implementation of a deal it agreed to last month to pull troops from protest-hit towns, free political prisoners and start talking to dissidents.
Tehran describes Syria, its closest Arab ally, as an outpost of resistance to Israel that has been set up by Washington and its lackeys in the Middle East region. Iran refuses to recognise Israel.
Analysts say the collapse of Syria's government would be a blow to Iran as Damascus is the Islamic state's most important bridge to the Arab world.
(Writing by Parisa Hafezi; Editing by Jon Boyle)

Sanctioning Syria

"Economic sanctions are arrogant open acts of war against other nations. Their goal is to devastate the lower and middle classes and to weaken the country. The regime of the imposing country believes that its economy is superior and is so influential that other countries are so dependent on it and could not survive without it.

Economic sanctions are deceitfully justified as punishing a ruthless political regime and protecting human rights of an oppressed people. Such people are the most devastated when their economy is hurt while the ruling regime may become more oppressive in its reaction in order to protect and to preserve itself. Case in point is the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who died due to lack of medicine during the economic embargo after the Gulf War while the Iraqi regime had its own reserve of all kinds of medications stored for itself.

The sanctioning regime hopes that the sanctioned population would hurt so bad that, with some external encouragement and hope for economic relief; they would rise up and topple their own regime. The other scenario is that the military industry of the sanctioned regime becomes so weak and ineffective that the regime would not stand a chance in any military confrontation, similar to what happened in Iraq.

Such scenarios take place in a country that is faced with sanctions by the majority of the international community. On the other hand countries facing partial sanctions rise up to the challenge and become more self-sufficient and more independent. Cuba, with the longest economic embargo, North Korea and Iran are examples of such countries. Due to its large size and important natural resources, Iran had advanced its industry even to achieve nuclear technology."

Continues.....

Originally Posted by OhOh

Sanctioning Syria

"Economic sanctions are arrogant open acts of war against other nations. Their goal is to devastate the lower and middle classes and to weaken the country. The regime of the imposing country believes that its economy is superior and is so influential that other countries are so dependent on it and could not survive without it.

Economic sanctions are deceitfully justified as punishing a ruthless political regime and protecting human rights of an oppressed people. Such people are the most devastated when their economy is hurt while the ruling regime may become more oppressive in its reaction in order to protect and to preserve itself. Case in point is the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children who died due to lack of medicine during the economic embargo after the Gulf War while the Iraqi regime had its own reserve of all kinds of medications stored for itself.

The sanctioning regime hopes that the sanctioned population would hurt so bad that, with some external encouragement and hope for economic relief; they would rise up and topple their own regime. The other scenario is that the military industry of the sanctioned regime becomes so weak and ineffective that the regime would not stand a chance in any military confrontation, similar to what happened in Iraq.

Such scenarios take place in a country that is faced with sanctions by the majority of the international community. On the other hand countries facing partial sanctions rise up to the challenge and become more self-sufficient and more independent. Cuba, with the longest economic embargo, North Korea and Iran are examples of such countries. Due to its large size and important natural resources, Iran had advanced its industry even to achieve nuclear technology."

Continues.....

The sanctions are just a cosmetic way for the world to pretend to apply pressure without having to dip their toes in the military water and deal with the shitstorm that would create.

They mean as little as this whole, poorly judged opinion piece.

sanctions are the typical cowards tools, that is typical tool for America and England

in the middle age, it was called a siege

So, what to do?

Let Assad carry on killing any and everybody opposed to him? Or support the freedom fighters?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

sanctions are the typical cowards tools, that is typical tool for America and England

in the middle age, it was called a siege

Er, I think we've already established that the Garlic munchers are in the EU, so you'd better add Belgium and France to that list, retard.

So, what to do?

Let Assad carry on killing any and everybody opposed to him? Or support the freedom fighters?

Essentially stand there tutting and hope to fuck Saudi Arabia can topple Assad before Iran takes over Iraq.

^ Especially when Russia are being as obstructive as they can.

Russia: Syria resolution "probably unrealistic"

23 December 2011, 03:02 (GMT+04:00)


Russia said Thursday it may not be able to complete a new draft resolution on Syria's violent unrest because amendments submitted by Western countries in the UN Security Council contradicted the contents of Russia's original text, dpa reported.

Russian UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin, president of the 15-nation council in December, was not optimistic when asked whether the Syria draft would be ready for a vote before the holidays.

He told reporters that amendments submitted by Britain, France, Germany and Portugal "crossed out everything we said (in the text), and we cannot discuss to produce a new text."

He said prospects for completing the draft in coming days appeared "probably unrealistic." The council's legal experts have been discussing the Russian text this week.

Despite the disagreement with Western ambassadors, Churkin said, "We are trying to get a better text. We are moving on to a united text."

US Ambassador Susan Rice and her European counterparts have tried to amend the Russian text to include strong condemnation of the Syrian regime of President Bashir al-Assad for severe human rights abuses. The Russian text avoided singling out Damascus for the violations and killing of protesters, a death toll which the UN said has exceeded 5,000.

In October, Russia and China vetoed a draft resolution worked out by Britain, France, Germany and Portugal. The two countries last week called for a new Syrian resolution, which the four European countries welcomed, but wanted to heavily rewrite the language to condemn Damascus.

Double Suicide Car Bombs in Damascus. It's escalating. We could end up with a Shi'a republic of Syraq at this rate.

DAMASCUS — Suicide bombers hit two security service bases in Damascus on Friday killing many civilians and some soldiers, state television reported, in the first attacks of their kind in a quarter of a century.
"Several soldiers and a large number of civilians were killed in the two attacks carried out by suicide bombers in vehicles packed with explosives against bases of State Security and another branch of the security services," state television said.
"Initial inquiries hold al-Qaida responsibility," the television added, after AFP correspondents heard two large explosions in the heart of the capital.
Witnesses said the bombers struck in the Kfar Suseh neighbourhood of the city. A car tried to ram its way into a State Security compound, while another car exploded in front of a security service building in the same area.
The blasts came as an advance team was in Damascus to prepare the logistics for an Arab League observer mission to oversee a plan to end nine months of unrest that has killed more than 5,000 people, according to the United Nations.
Syrian Foreign Minister Walid Muallem has said he expects the observers to vindicate his government's contention that the unrest is the work of "armed terrorists," not overwhelmingly peaceful protesters as maintained by Western governments and human rights watchdogs.
A Britain-based rights group also reported Friday's blasts.
"Two blasts just rocked the Syrian capital Damascus, followed by the sound of heavy shooting in the vicinity of the general intelligence headquarters," the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said in a statement received by AFP in Nicosia.
The bombings in Damascus were the first of their kind since the 1980s when then president Hafez al-Assad, father of incumbent Bashar al-Assad, fought an armed uprising by the since banned Muslim Brotherhood.
© Copyright (c) AFP

"Peaceful Protesters" by definition don't do do killing, so it can't be them.
"Government Forces" by definition protect citizens from harm, so it can't be them.
"Armed Terrorists" by definition blow up peaceful citizens, QED.

When will the Iraqi government invite the Iranians, Russians and Chinese in to assist with "nation building"?

Arab League's own parliament calls for end of Syrian peace mission - Telegraph

"The 88-member Arab parliament effectively declared it had lost confidence in the much-vaunted mission, saying that the observers' presence had served to encourage the Assad regime in its campaign of violence against civilian protesters.
"For this to be happening in the presence of Arab monitors has roused the anger of Arab people and negates the purpose of sending a fact-finding mission," Ali al-Salem al-Debkas, the parliament's chairman said.
"This is giving the Syrian regime an Arab cover for continuing its inhumane actions under the eyes and ears of the Arab League."
Mr Assad's reluctant acceptance of regional observers last month was hailed as a major breakthrough meant to end nine months of violence that has seen more than 5,000 civilian deaths since Syria's uprising began last March.
The mission was charged with verifying the Syrian government's compliance with a regional peace plan designed to end the bloodletting, but from the outset it has been beset by controversy.

Much of the anger has been directed at Gen Mustafa al-Dabi, the chief observer, whose actions and perceived sympathy for the Assad regime have caused bafflement and anger within the Syrian opposition.
A Sudanese intelligence officer who has been linked to war crimes in Darfur, Gen Dabi was at the centre of a fresh row yesterday after he contradicted one of his own observers who said he had witnessed government snipers in action against protesters in the southern city of Deraa.
"We saw snipers in the town, we saw them with our own eyes," the unidentified observer was recorded as saying on amateur video footage. "We're going to ask the government to remove them immediately. If the snipers are not gone in 24 hours, then there will be other measures taken."
Bizarrely, however, Gen Dabi insisted that his colleague was only speaking hypothetically. "This man said that is he saw – by his own eyes – those snipers, he will report immediately," he said. "But he did not see."

Gen Dabi faced opposition calls to resign last week after he told reporters that he had seen nothing disturbing in the city of Homs, the most violent theatre of the insurrection, only to claim subsequently that he had never made the comments.
His handling of the mission has raised fears of a whitewash. Despite the Arab Parliament's criticism, many in the Syrian opposition will not want the observers withdrawn as their presence has encouraged record numbers of their supporters to take to the streets to demonstrate their anger against the regime.
In parts of the country, Syrian tanks have also been withdrawn from the centres of cities leading to a reduction in civilian casualties.
Even so, the violence has continued, with 40 people being killed across the country since Friday – evidence, the opposition says, that Mr Assad's acceptance of the observer mission is only a time-buying ruse.
Desperate to build on the renewed momentum it has been afforded by the growing size of demonstrations, Syria's divided opposition announced it had agreed a common approach to the organisation of a transitional government to replace Mr Assad.
The pact, signed after a month of negotiations, represents a significant step towards unifying a movement that has been bitterly divided between exiles represented by the Syrian National Council and dissidents operating from within the country under the auspices of the National Coordination Body.
The two sides agreed to reject foreign military intervention but raised the possibility of requesting the deployment of Arab peace keepers.
The deal has been condemned by many within the Syrian National Council who favour Libya-style military action by the West. Some called for the resignation of the council's leader Burhan Ghalioun."

It seems that the much vaunted AL "observers" , the AL forum, the SNC and the actual protesters cannot sing from the same hymn sheet.

Only Assad and his government can hold the country together.

So Assad is actually the good guy?

The Mossad must be very busy these days,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The Mossad must be very busy these days,

Oh yes, working out who gets nuked first.

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

So Assad is actually the good guy?

"Good" is relative.

Compared to the Turks, Israelis, Terrorists or the crusader coalition lets say better.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

So Assad is actually the good guy?

"Good" is relative.

Compared to the Turks, Israelis, Terrorists or the crusader coalition lets say better.

Maybe you should tell that to the families of the innocent men, women and children he and Iran have had executed by his troops in a desperate attempt to cling onto power.

You and your crusader coalition bollocks, honestly. You're like a wind up toy.

harryb is not too smart when it comes to distinguish between terrorists

of course, as a BNP supporter, we can't expect him to have a brain at all beyond his rethoric about ragheads