Thread: Syria: Not as important as Libya.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I am surprised the British public is not outrage over this

Some are, but the majority have their heads down keeping the wolf from the door.

The police have the art of stopping demonstrations to a tee, either from being organised, you need a licence, from being run, they Kettle the demo by chopping it up into small groups and disallow anyone from leaving for up to 10 hours. They dress in military visors, body armour, large batons, tear gas, mounted cavalry, armoured wagons, spy drones, spy helicopters. They stop, search and jail protesters 20 miles from the demos........

Look back at the last miners strike videos if you want to see how the Police use their force.

Subsequent to the demos all the photographs of the protesters are added to their "terrorist" database and anyone applying for a new position is blacklisted.

sounds like the UK has become like the American cousins,

this is what happens when you let a woman run a country for a decade

looks like Iran is looking for NATO attention

BBC News - Iran protesters storm UK embassy in Tehran

1/2 Webster Tarpley, intervient depuis la Syrie S/T - YouTube

Originally Posted by Butterfly

harryb, you should stick to phone reviews, your feeble mind is too prone to western propaganda and marketing hype. I am surprised you are not an apple fan from all this.

Fuck off and play with your registry hacks, you feeble minded Gallic gay boy.

Russia rejects arms embargo on Syria: FM

"MOSCOW, Nov. 29 (Xinhua) -- Russia rejects any arms embargo imposed on Syria and Moscow would try to avoid a repeat of the Libyan scenario in the country, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Tuesday.

After his meeting with Arab countries' ambassadors to Russia, Lavrov told a news conference that lessons should be learnt from the situation in Libya, where an embargo on arms supplies was "only applied to the Libyan army."

"Groups, including those formed by citizens who penetrated to Syria from other states, have been actively supplied with arms," he said. "That is why proposals to introduce a ban on any arms supplies to Syria are quite unfair."

Lavrov said Moscow also rejects ultimatum-like words on the Syria issue, adding that the ultimatums would not help resolve the problem.

"The Syrian problem requires the same approach, as ultimatums, which some states try to use, including members of the Arab League, cannot resolve this problem," Lavrov said.

"We hope our friends in the Arab League... will show maximum responsibility for what is going on in the region... and they will observe the same rules the Arab League worked out, while making relevant decisions," he added.

After meeting with his visiting Icelandic counterpart Ossur Skarphedinsson, Lavrov also warned that armed opposition was provoking conflicts in Syria.

"The unrest is not so much related to the authorities but armed groups, who are provoking the unrest," Lavrov said.

In November, Lavrov warned that external forces are seeking to deteriorate the situation in Syria in order to justify their interference in Syria's internal political affairs."

it's great to see that Russia is the only large country in the world looking for peace while France and the UK (and the US) is returning to their troubled imperial past

^Disturbing you mean, don't forget the top 20 world universities are in those countries, what the fuck is being taught there?

I find it frightening that although the western countries are scrabbling around cutting benefits/wages/opportunities to their citizens they still find billions to fund more weapons and wars around the world.

it's actually logical, those countries are losing economic steam, without growth, they can't keep their population under control, a good little war should keep everyone busy and make them forget the financial mess we have currently

American started first, they needed to grow up and follow the path of their European grand parents

we are just warming up and thinking of a glorious past when the French and English were ruling the world, and we would kick your British ass every time we had a chance

Originally Posted by OhOh

After his meeting with Arab countries' ambassadors to Russia, Lavrov told a news conference that lessons should be learnt from the situation in Libya, where an embargo on arms supplies was "only applied to the Libyan army."

"Groups, including those formed by citizens who penetrated to Syria from other states, have been actively supplied with arms," he said. "That is why proposals to introduce a ban on any arms supplies to Syria are quite unfair."

I don't suppose by any stretch of the imagination the Russians might be pissed off at losing another customer?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it's actually logical, those countries are losing economic steam, without growth, they can't keep their population under control, a good little war should keep everyone busy and make them forget the financial mess we have currently

American started first, they needed to grow up and follow the path of their European grand parents

we are just warming up and thinking of a glorious past when the French and English were ruling the world, and we would kick your British ass every time we had a chance

Ah yes, the French and Military victories.

A legend in their own lunchtime.

^ still mad about Napoleon, aren't you ? did you know he was Italian, not French

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ still mad about Napoleon, aren't you ? did you know he was Italian, not French

Why would I be mad about a perverted little midget? I talk to you, don't I?

An interesting piece from the blue suede shoes:

Rockets from Lebanon: Assad's last stand?




By Anshel Pfeffer, November 30, 2011
Follow The JC on Twitter
The launch of two Katyusha rockets across the Lebanese border at an Israeli village in the Western Galilee in the night between Monday and Tuesday did not cause any casualties and succeeded only in setting light to a gas storage unit, but it served as a reminder that the growing Syrian civil war could boil over into neighbouring Lebanon and Israel.
Over five years since the end of the Second Lebanon War, Hizbollah has not fired a shot or a missile over the border, the handful of Katyusha launches in this period have all been fired by Palestinian splinter-groups. In this week's case, the "Abdallah Azzam battalions," a Salafist group with Al-Qaida ties, took responsibility for the rockets.
In response, the IDF fired a salvo of artillery shells but officers said that no further action is currently planned.
The past five years have been the calmest period on the Israel-Lebanon border for nearly four decades. This week's launch was the first such attack in two years, but Hizbollah and Syria have a stockpile of some 200,000 rockets of various sizes capable of reaching targets in Israel and there is concern that should the embattled Assad regime feel its days are numbers, it may decide to provoke conflict with Israel or use its Lebanese ally, to divert international attention and pressure.
The probability of such an outcome is unsure. While some Israeli intelligence analysts believe that "Assad is in so much trouble, he knows that even a limited skirmish with Israel will finish him off," others fear that "with his back to the wall, he could do anything."
For now, the IDF is "closely monitoring the situation in Syria without intending to intervene in any way" as IDF Chief of Staff, Lieutenant General Benny Gantz said last week.

Not dissimilar to what Saddam tried to do in '91 - provoke a response from the Israelis to try and get the Arab world on its side.

harryb, you keep falling for all the old media trap and political hype, try using your brain and think independently

are you sure you are not an Apple fan ?

Here's the truthful version you crave, ButtPlug.

From PRAVDA.

War in Syria inevitable

01.12.2011


The situation in Syria and around it is becoming increasingly volatile. Following the sanctions imposed by the U.S., EU, Turkey and the League of Arab States (LAS), the armed detachments of mercenaries from Libya have been put to use. The troops of the former Libyan rebels are ready to join the armed rebels of the "Free Syrian Army."
On November 29 Arabic website "Al-Rai Al-Arabi" reported that some 600 Libyan volunteers, who want to participate in the overthrow of President Bashar al-Assad, came to Syria through Turkey. The site indicated a representative of the current leadership of Libya as its source. Strictly speaking, this can hardly be surprising. The current Transitional National Council (TNC) first recognized the Syrian National Council as "the sole legitimate representative" of the Syrian people.
The "Free Syrian Army" in some way is a clone of the Libyan rebels. It was formed in the border areas with Turkey by the Syrian army defectors. They had frequent clashes with the government forces. Last week, they attacked the buildings of the Air Force of the Syrian Intelligence but were unable to seize them. According to some reports, Turkey and Libya have already had a series of talks on the supply of Syrian rebels and volunteers with arms. Now it seems that the first "well-wishers" from Libya have arrived.

The emergence of volunteers alone says that the force scenario of overthrowing the current leadership of Syria is quite likely. How the events in the country will develop? A military expert and director of the Center for Military Forecasting Anatoly Tsyganok talked about it in an interview with "Pravda.Ru".
"The first possible scenario is that the army will restore order as it happened in Egypt. Who, indeed, the Syrian government would negotiate with? It will not negotiate with the so-called Transitional Council sitting in Istanbul. Incidentally, in Syria nearly fifteen hundred policemen were killed in clashes with al-Assad opposition. Why does the West not mention this?
The second scenario is that of force. Either Saudi Arabia or NATO would inflict blows at Syria. If this happens, most likely, it will be Saudi Arabia.
For Turkey that seems to be at the vanguard of the opponents of Assad the force scenario is not advantageous. If it happens, its territory will be flooded by thousands of refugees, including ethnic Kurds who could destabilize the situation in Turkey. There is also Israel that fought with Syria four times. Today, however, there is peace in the disputed Golan Heights. For Israel the most important thing is the absence of threats. For example, the weapon from the war-torn Libya quickly reached the Gaza Strip. Israel does not need this war.
The third scenario assumes interference of Iranwith which Bashar al-Assad signed a treaty of mutual assistance in 2009. Units of the Islamic Revolution Guards Corps (IRGC) can be transferred to Syria. If Iran loses Syria, the probability of attack at Iran by NATO would drastically increase.
In addition, in the event of the forceful resolution the current Syrian leadership will be able to hide in the areas populated by the Alawite on the border with Turkey and establish a new Alawite government there."
So far force scenarios against Syria are not officially discussed in the West. However, the decision to bomb Yugoslavia, Iraq or Libya, too, was not made overnight. In all cases first there were sanctions and numerous reports of human rights violations prepared by human rights defenders. The last paper of this kind was published by the International Independent Commission of Experts on human rights.
"A considerable amount of evidence collected by the Commission indicates that these egregious human rights violations were committed by Syrian military and security forces since the beginning of the protests in March of 2011," the committee members noted in their report. Its head Paulo Pinheiro argues that its members have established the facts of executions, arbitrary arrests, kidnappings, torture and sexual violence. Syrian security forces could have killed 3.5 thousand people. However, the committee members had not visited Syria.
However, even in the West not everyone believed another portion of data demonizing Bashar al-Assad. A French journalist and political analyst Thierry Meyssan who at some point expressed doubts about the official theory of terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 in the United States, accused the authors of the report of forgery. He pointed out that the above information is based on the data from a human rights organization Observatoire syrien des Droits de l'homme (OSDH), whose office is located in London. He also indicated that many of those who enlisted as dead are actually alive.
Unlike the authors of the report, Meyssan traveled to Syria. According to him, there is much violence provoked by mercenaries from Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Chechnya, and the Qatari television station "Al Jazeera broadcasts staged footage. "We have met with the survivors and saw mutilated bodies in morgues and hospitals. Most of the victims are military, not civilians, which once again suggests that this is not about political repression against the civilian population by the authorities", said Meyssan.
Strictly speaking, the opponents of the current Syrian government and the Western media that replicated their information have been often accused of fraud. 18-year- old Zainab Al-Hosni allegedly killed for the opposition activities of her brother "resurrected", saying that she just ran away from home. A blog allegedly written by some oppressed Syrian lesbian was created by a resident of Scotland.
But the Western media prefer to ignore their own faults and continue to attack the president of Syria. The British newspaper The Financial Times recently wrote that Arab countries have taken the unprecedented step of imposing sanctions against Syria, strengthening thereby the economic pressure on the regime of Bashar al-Assad. France Press echoed it saying that Human Rights Committee of the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution condemning bloody repression against demonstrators in Syria.
Turkish Weekly wrote that the conflict in Syria continues between the Assad regime and dissidents. While the situation is still gloomy, methods of suppression of popular unrest based on force increase the instability of Assad regime.
The clouds are gathering over Syria each day. LAS imposed economic sanctions on the country. Turkey threatens to cut off electricity and stop using Syrian territory for transit trade. The U.S. and the EU issue new threatening statements. The campaign of attacks on al-Assad in Western and Turkish media outlets has been ongoing for several months. Now the country has to deal with the mercenaries sent from Libya.
Vadim Trukhachev

And frankly if the bloke thinks Saudi Arabia would go for military intervention, then he's a fucking idiot.

^ What are your thoughts about the "drivers" of the GCC, who are the leaders and who are the followers?

Which other powers is it aligned to?

The Qatari mercenaries, trained and funded in the Gulf states, are certainly being used as GCC proxies in recent civil wars.

Qatari mercenaries? A mate of mine was training them in hand to hand combat, when he turned round, they were all holding hands. I don't think so somehow.



The GCC are Sunni and they all hate Iran, who hates them back in spades. As Assad and his cronies are all Shi'a, I don't think the lines could be more clearly drawn.

Is there any internal dissent within the GCC, or would it not be published if there were?

Originally Posted by OhOh

Is there any internal dissent within the GCC, or would it not be published if there were?

A few of the families dislike each other but on the Shi'a they have a common understanding - they loathe them.

No doubt the evil, nasty, western-controlled media made all of this up. But we can't tell, because Assad refuses to let the evil, nasty, western-controlled media into Syria, because he's afraid they'll make stuff up.

Er........

25 die in Syria as defectors fight regime

Bassem Mroue

December 4, 2011 - 6:44PM


AFP
Violence sweeping Syria has killed 25 people, most of them in a battle between troops and a growing force of army defectors who have joined the movement to oust the autocratic president, activists say.
The Arab League, meanwhile, has agreed on the details of economic and diplomatic sanctions against the regime.
The revolt against Bashar al-Assad's rule began with peaceful protests in mid-March, triggering a brutal crackdown. The unrest has steadily become bloodier as defectors and some civilians take up arms, prompting the United Nations' human rights chief to refer to it this week as a civil war and urge the international community to protect Syrian civilians.

Sanctions by the United States, the European Union, Turkey and the 22-member Arab League have so far failed to blunt the turmoil, but are leaving Assad's regime increasingly isolated.

Arab League ministers meeting in the Gulf nation of Qatar on Saturday to finalise the bloc's penalties agreed on a list of 19 Syrian officials subject to a travel ban. Among them are Cabinet ministers, intelligence chiefs and security officers, but the list does not include Assad.


Many of the Arab sanctions, which were first announced last Sunday, went into effect immediately, including cutting off transactions with the Syrian central bank, halting Arab government funding for projects in Syria and freezing government assets. Flights between Syria and its Arab neighbours will stop on December 15.


The Arab League also agreed to ban the supply of all weapons to Syria.
The worst violence on Saturday took place in the restive northwestern city of Idlib.


The pre-dawn clashes between regime forces and defectors killed seven soldiers and policemen, as well as five defectors and three civilians, according to a British-based group of Syrian activists called the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.


Elsewhere, security forces killed one civilian in the southern province of Daraa, six in the central region of Homs and three others in areas near Idlib, the observatory said.


The UN's top human rights official said this week that Syria is in a state of civil war and that more than 4,000 people have been killed since March.


Until recently, most of the bloodshed in Syria was caused by security forces firing on mainly peaceful protesters, but there have been growing reports of army defectors and armed civilians fighting regime forces.


November was the deadliest month of the uprising, with at least 950 people killed in gunbattles, raids and other violence, according to activist groups.
In the west of the country, Syrian troops detained at least 27 people in the village of Talkalakh on the border with Lebanon and set fire to the homes of nine activists who were on the run, the observatory said.


Talkalakh is within walking distance from Lebanon, and at least two Lebanese civilians were struck by bullets on their side of the border on Friday. Witnesses said that they had heard hours of explosions and heavy machine-gun fire coming from the village.


The country's state-run SANA news agency confirmed the arrests in Talkalakh, saying that those detained were "terrorists" involved in smuggling weapons, drugs and bringing in fighters from Lebanon. The regime has consistently blamed armed gangs acting out a foreign conspiracy for Syria's unrest.


The opposition activists reject that and say they are pushing for Assad's ouster in hopes of breaking open the nation's closed political scene.
The reports of new violence could not be independently confirmed. The regime has sealed the country off from foreign journalists and prevented independent reporting.


Syria has refused to accept an Arab League proposal for ending the violence under which a team of Arab monitors would enter the country to ensure the government has halted its crackdown on protesters.


Arab League officials at Saturday's meeting in Qatar said Syria has asked for a meeting to discuss the proposed monitoring team with the league's secretary-general, Nabil Elaraby. But no date or venue for those talks was announced.
The league suspended Syria's membership in November.

Lies and truths about Syria [Voltaire Network]

This just part of the article. There are many similar ones published if you look.


"Western mainstream media testify

At the end of this article, I would like to underscore that Voltaire Network facilitated a press visit to Syria, organized at the initiative of the Catholic Information Center of Middle East Christians, as part of the opening towards Western media announced by President al-Assad at the Arab League. We assisted mainstream journalists to travel to combat zones. At first, our colleagues were wary of our presence, both because they had negative preconceived ideas about us to us and because they thought we were trying to brainwash them. They eventually came to realize that we are normal people and that the fact of having chosen our camp did not mean we had renounced our critical spirit. In the end, though still convinced of NATO’s benevolence and while failing to share our commitment to anti-imperialist, they opened their eyes and ears to the truth.

Currently, their reports honestly reflect the actions perpetrated by the armed gangs that are terrorizing the country. Of course, they have refrained from openly contradicting the Atlantic version and tried to reconcile it with what they saw and heard, which called for some awkward contortions around the concept of a ’civil war’ allegedly pitting the Syrian army against foreign mercenaries. Nevertheless, reports by Télévision Belge (RTBF) and La Libre Belgique, to name a few, now clearly reveal that for eight months NATO has masked the actions of death squads and falsely attributed their crimes to the Syrian authorities. "