Any doubts about Climate Change?

**S Landreth** · 24-06-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by S Landreth

And a short video on zombie theories: One of the nation's leading climate scientists explains how he goes about knocking down the "zombie theories" that plague our discussions about climate change. What is a zombie theory? Says Shepherd: "It's one of those theories that scientists have refuted or disproven time and time again, but they live on like zombies in the blogs and on the radio stations."

^ Fantastic vid, thanks for sharing. He's spot on and knows his stuff, but I would have to disagree with his assertion that the climate change debate is not a "left right issue". It's quite clear that many conservatives are willing pawns in the denialist scheme.

Dr. Shepherd seems to be a good communicator and spokesperson for Climate Change and when he says it’s not a “left right issue” I believe he’s leaving the door open for people who still question the science.

Dr. Shepherd might not want to alienate the deniers/skeptics. If he does it might push those people; who are still questioning the science, over the edge and could make them dig their heels in believing Climate Change is some type of hoax or conspiracy. It's easy to offend some groups of people as evident in this thread.

Sure we can goof on the ignorant idiot deniers here. But this is TD. Dr. Shepherd has a much larger audience that he must try to educate and who are still open to learn.

Got to give Dr. Shepherd credit for trying to educate some of these people and keeping that door open.

**GR3** · 27-06-2013, 02:37 AM

If you want proof the global warming lobby oh sorry they changed to climate change lobby in order to hedge their bets, are more spin than science then ask why they call anybody who challenges man made global warming a "climate change denier" I don't know anybody who denies climate change. It's always changed and always will. Now man made global warming is just a tax revenue generator IMHO. When I see Times Square in darkness and all the other fossil fuel burning advertising screens banned then I will take it seriously.

**slackula** · 27-06-2013, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by GR3

When I see Times Square in darkness and all the other fossil fuel burning advertising screens banned then I will take it seriously.

You can tell how the power of an advertising screen was generated just by looking at it?

Wow, that's quite a talent!

**Rainfall** · 27-06-2013, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by GR3

I don't know anybody who denies climate change. It's always changed and always will.

You probably don't know much about what changes the climate, and which of those factors are at work right now. If I'm wrong, tell us about them.

**blue** · 28-06-2013, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by GR3

I don't know anybody who denies climate change. It's always changed and always will.

You probably don't know much about what changes the climate, and which of those factors are at work right now. If I'm wrong, tell us about them.

Well if you do know Rainfall , please tell us , so we can do what ever is neccesary to get global warning back on track ....
another chilly summers day again in Britain .

**Rainfall** · 28-06-2013, 01:09 AM

Sorry to hear. Called my mother a few days ago and she reported 37 degrees in Central Germany. She asked me for the first time spezific questions about the workings of aircons, I mentioned many times before that we use them in Thailand in place of heating, but always had the feeling she dismissed it as knowledge with no consequences for her.

Anyway, nothing is causing natural climate change at present, and nothing is scheduled for another 50,000 years. Only the greenhouse gases have changed considerably.

**GR3** · 01-07-2013, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by GR3

I don't know anybody who denies climate change. It's always changed and always will.

You probably don't know much about what changes the climate, and which of those factors are at work right now. If I'm wrong, tell us about them.

You are correct, I know jack shit about climate change, but I do know politics, spin and vested interests. I see so much hypocrisy from people telling me to pay carbon tax while they own the compulsory hybrid but actually drive around in a V8 and hire private jets.
Over the centuries there have been many fashions created by the Establishment to cow and frighten the peasantry. These fashions were usually in the form of pejorative words and descriptions. The accusation of being a "Witch" and "Heretic" were favourites. On the utterance of these and other words, the proletariat were expected to quake and fall to their knees.
Over the last few years these words have been replaced “denier” and its holocaust denier undertones, however, as "witch" has now fallen off the radar, so is this nonsense word beginning to sound more and more ludicrous to any thinking person.
I am tired of being controlled by words like “racist” if I speak out against immigration and “denier” if I question the science of manmade global warming. Why are such accusatory words needed if the science is so strong?
I love my planet and all its diversity; I see population explosion, demographics and consumerism as the problem. I am all for reducing carbon use but based on real threats and to create a planet more beautiful than the one we inherited.
I choose to cut through the bullshit of those who cast about those controlling words and get to the truth not by listening to the bullshit hailed by both sides but by looking at the lifestyles of those who control us. If manmade global warming is a real threat then we are truly fucked, as I don’t see India, Brazil or China reducing consumption any time soon. Our only hope is pollution free energy given to the world and transmitted around the globe. Tesla had the answer over 90 years ago but big business and geopolitics prevent it. When the threat is real and nobody is safe then the world will have to pull together. The fact that it is not tells me I am being filled with a sense of foreboding and fear just so I will pay my ever increasing taxes to fund the carbon rich lifestyles of those that wish to control us without too much complaint.

**Mid** · 01-07-2013, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by GR3

I don’t see India, Brazil or China reducing consumption any time soon.

China and U.S. Agree to Cooperate to Reduce Powerful Greenhouse Gas
June 12, 2013

The informal summit between the presidents of China and the United States last week yielded one very one important climate-related agreement. After years of opposing international efforts to restrict hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs - a potent family of greenhouse gases), China has now agreed to cooperate with the United States and most other nations in moving forward to phase down the use of these chemicals under the Montreal Protocol.

China and U.S. Agree to Cooperate to Reduce Powerful Greenhouse Gas | The Energy Collective

**Mid** · 01-07-2013, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by GR3

I don’t see India, Brazil or China reducing consumption any time soon.

Kerry Prods India to Cut Greenhouse Gas Emissions
MICHAEL R. GORDON and JOHN M. BRODER
June 23, 2013

Secretary of State John Kerry urged India on Sunday to begin to address climate change by reducing emissions of greenhouse gases even as it attempts to bring electricity to tens of millions of its citizens now living without it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/wo...ions.html?_r=0

**GR3** · 01-07-2013, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by GR3

I don’t see India, Brazil or China reducing consumption any time soon.

China and U.S. Agree to Cooperate to Reduce Powerful Greenhouse Gas
June 12, 2013

The informal summit between the presidents of China and the United States last week yielded one very one important climate-related agreement. After years of opposing international efforts to restrict hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs - a potent family of greenhouse gases), China has now agreed to cooperate with the United States and most other nations in moving forward to phase down the use of these chemicals under the Montreal Protocol.

China and U.S. Agree to Cooperate to Reduce Powerful Greenhouse Gas | The Energy Collective

Words are cheap, show me the actions?

**Mid** · 01-07-2013, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by GR3

I don’t see India, Brazil or China reducing consumption any time soon.

Brazil reports sharp drop in greenhouse emissions
Jeff Tollefson
05 June 2013

Decrease in deforestation drives the trend, but emissions from energy and agriculture grow.

Brazil reports sharp drop in greenhouse emissions : Nature News & Comment

**Mid** · 01-07-2013, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by GR3

Words are cheap

**GR3** · 01-07-2013, 06:38 AM

Tesla showed us the way, with the right political motivation we could have aircraft and cars powered by wirelessly transmitted electricity. Imagine generating that power in a green way, cars and aircraft whose only limit on range is the endurance of the driver or crew. The science is real we only lack the political motivation. Why do we lack that? Because there is no profit in it for the big companies who control selling us power. The answer to the problem of manmade global warming if it exists was there 90 years ago and it would improve the lifestyle of us all, instead they choose to introduce carbon tax and improve the lifestyle of the few.
http://www.teslatech.info/ttmagazine/v1n4/valone.htm

**GR3** · 01-07-2013, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by GR3

Words are cheap

And your actions are?

**beazalbob69** · 01-07-2013, 07:21 AM

Again I will say this, something I have said on other threads on this and other forums many times before.

Why is it black or white to most people? Why does every subject have to be this team against that team? It's not sports FFS! Why does it have to be either "Man made global warming/Climate change is really real and people are honest" or "No such thing as Man made global warming/Climate change and people are lying bastards that want to steal all your money"?

Why can't it be both?

I see the Climate changing. I see much bigger swings in the weather as I think most people do. I see overpopulation, exploitation of natural resources, disregard of other life forms, carelessness in handling waste, etc. Basically I see Humans changing the Planet for the worse which I would think lends towards changing the Planets weather systems for the worse (for us anyway).

I also see greedy Humans taking advantage of this situation just like greedy Humans have always done. They didn't need to create the "myth" of Global warming/Climate change they just had to figure out a way to profit from it. Which they have. Both sides have made a cottage industry from this and neither gives a shit one way or the other about Global warming/Climate change just about making money and lots of it and all they had to do was trick most into believing it was a black or white issue.

I think we are all screwed and I think the people making all the money know it also.

Well look at the bright side everyone who is pissed off about Humans destroying the planet wont have to worry about it too much longer. As soon as all of our already fragile economies are collapsed due to severe weather and destruction that no Govt can afford humanity will be thrust back into the dark ages, what little remains of humanity a couple of years after the power goes out anyway, and pollution of the planet will cease.

**Jesus Jones** · 01-07-2013, 07:27 AM

GR3. As I've said is so many threads, there are far too many preachers that do absolutely nothing but love to complain about something. Many are on this forum and other likes it. I guess that's what keeps them going!

And I'll ask again. Why aren't we plugging the sinking ship?

**FlyFree** · 01-07-2013, 07:41 AM

If it was a small boat with few people on it we'd have plugged it already. It's a big ship with a lot of people and no one captain, it has to be done by consensus. A virtually impossible job.

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

I also see greedy Humans taking advantage of this situation just like greedy Humans have always done. They didn't need to create the "myth" of Global warming/Climate change they just had to figure out a way to profit from it. Which they have. Both sides have made a cottage industry from this and neither gives a shit one way or the other about Global warming/Climate change just about making money and lots of it and all they had to do was trick most into believing it was a black or white issue.

Back in the late 80s/early 90s the discussion was that the only way to get people motivated to do anything is to make it an economic issue. Money in their pockets. It was on this premise that the issue of carbon trading/tax was raised. That way, the argument went, whether they gave a shit about their children's future or not, they'd get involved.

**beazalbob69** · 01-07-2013, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by FlyFree

whether they gave a shit about their children's future or not, they'd get involved.

And they did get involved. Did it fix the problem? Of course not. All that happened is a few really wealthy people got more wealthy and many, many less wealthy people got less wealthy.

**FlyFree** · 01-07-2013, 08:31 AM

You seem to think it's a reasonably easy problem to fix, ala the instant society. It's a humongous train to stop and turn around. At least it started the process and got some involvement. Got any better ideas?

**beazalbob69** · 01-07-2013, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by FlyFree

Got any better ideas?

Honestly? No. I don't believe there are any ways to stop it now. Maybe years ago it could have been stopped but not now. I don't even know if stopping it is a good idea. Maybe Humanity needs this to evolve. Evolve or die. I am just along for the ride.

**Takeovers** · 01-07-2013, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Maybe Humanity needs this to evolve. Evolve or die.

Die is not the issue. Technology and civilization may disappear though. And that would mean 99% will die, but 1% will survive.

**blue** · 01-07-2013, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Maybe Humanity needs this to evolve. Evolve or die.

Die is not the issue. Technology and civilization may disappear though. And that would mean 99% will die, but 1% will survive.

So long as most of the survivors were from the more inteligent races, mankind ,technology etc would be ok .
Anyway even the most gay alarmists , forsee the worst case senario played out over many decades not weeks .

Bring it on I say ,a warmer Earth with less people is the way forward.

**Takeovers** · 02-07-2013, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by blue

So long as most of the survivors were from the more inteligent races, mankind ,technology etc would be ok .

You are probably right. I was only stating the most extreme possibility.

**Boon Mee** · 02-07-2013, 03:06 PM

Yes It Is:

**harrybarracuda** · 02-07-2013, 04:34 PM

The way I see it, there is one big question to answer: Is a rising level of CO2 a cause of temperature rise, or an effect?

Because if it's the former, then we should do something about it, and if its the latter then there's no point in gnashing teeth and the money being spent on research would be better spent building bigger coastal defences.

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