Ukraine war mega thread

[Norton]

So there was/is a real schism between Ukrainian and Russian Orthodox? Didn't know that, but then again why would I.

There is but had nothing to do with grandpa's hatred. A long story but bottom line was the church treated the peasants like shit.

Here some light reading mate.

Russia, Ukraine, and the Orthodox church: Where religion meets geopolitics and war – European Council on Foreign Relations

[HuangLao]

[Iceman123]

Be great if everyone watched this video. George and Chris hit the nail right on the head.

[pickel]

^ Sorry, my bad- commencing with post #12392. See snubski, once posted you cannot alter or edit anything in the Doghouse. really sucks, e'hh?

You really do live in a fantasy world.

[panama hat]

Didn't know that, but then again why would I.

That doesn't stop you from posting your usual shit

[Norton]

There is some really good stuff in this thread. Shame it is in DH as no edit sure discourages posting here. How about moving back to SC mods? And if done, how about the name callers STFU if you have nothing to offer!

[bsnub]

How about moving back to SC mods? And if done, how about the name callers STFU if you have nothing to offer!

Why this thread is a veritable dumping ground for the useful idiot's propaganda. What we need is a nice thread that sabang is banned from posting in. Problem solved. Keep his crap in here.

[Norton]

Why this thread is a veritable dumping ground for the useful idiot's propaganda. What we need is a nice thread that sabang is banned from posting in. Problem solved. Keep his crap in here.

Pot kettle Snubs.

[bsnub]

Pot kettle Snubs.

If you have noticed any of the things I post on here to be fake news, propaganda or lies, do feel free to point them out to me. With Sabang it happens literally every day. No comparison at all.

I do not even see how a comparison is even remotely justified, to be frank.

[sabang]

The recent Bellend poll showed the forums verdict on that recruit snubski.

[Norton]

Pot kettle Snubs.

Referring to name calling bro. You want to point out Sabs "propaganda" go for it but the name calling by you and others is what got us in the DH.

My request to move it to a forum where editing is allowed makes sense. SC, Members only if we are concerned guests can see and it will tarnish TD's fine image.

[sabang]

W.J. Astore

Sending more weapons to Ukraine isn’t the answer

U.S. foreign policy is a place where logic goes to die.

Antony Blinken, the U.S. Secretary of State, said yesterday that the quickest way to end the Russia-Ukraine War is “to give Ukraine a strong hand on the battlefield,” by which he meant more and more weaponry, including Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles and Patriot missile systems together with Challenger II tanks from Great Britain. Not surprisingly, then, the White House also hinted at yet another aid package for Ukraine, which may be announced “as soon as the end of this week.”

A “strong hand” for Ukraine?

Logic suggests the quickest way to end a war is to stop fighting. Announce a cease fire, negotiate, and find acceptable terms for an armistice or peace treaty. Stop the killing—stop the war.

Of course, the U.S. State Department is really a tiny branch of the Pentagon. It’s been that way for decades. The Pentagon budget, $858 billion for this year, is 14 times greater than the State Department’s at $60 billion. It often seems that a primary mission of the State Department is to market and sell U.S. weaponry overseas. Small wonder that Blinken sees more deadly weaponry in Ukraine as the answer to ending a catastrophic war.

In a way, Blinken’s blinkered thinking is typically American. What’s the quickest way to end a war on crime? A drug war? Or almost any other problem in America? Obviously, more guns, more security cameras, more metal detectors, more body armor, and so on. Think about our “solutions” to gun violence in schools, which include armored backpacks for eight-year-olds and semi-automatic pistols for teachers. Too many Americans look to guns as a “solution” to life’s problems; count Blinken among the gun-lovers, at least when it’s in the form of U.S. arms exports.

While it’s true U.S. arms exports and aid may keep Ukraine from losing quickly, it’s highly unlikely these same weapons will help Ukraine to win quickly and decisively. Russia can and likely will match any escalation to this war, and at a cheaper price than the U.S. taxpayer is currently paying (now over $100 billion and rising).

Blinken’s bloodless language about war is also revealing. It’s all about giving Ukraine “a strong hand on the battlefield,” as if Ukraine and Russia are playing a polite game of poker. More weapons to Ukraine means more bloody death and destruction; attrition or even escalation is far more likely than a quick end in Ukraine’s favor.

Blinken probably knows this, but a large part of his intellectual training was spent at Harvard and Columbia Law, just as Jake Sullivan, his younger counterpart at the National Security Council, trained at Yale and Yale Law. These men aren’t stupid, they’re just narrowly trained and partisan functionaries willing to spout whatever the empire needs them to say in the cause of imperial hegemony.

And so U.S. lawyers continue to send guns and money to Ukraine, especially guns, while saying this is the best and quickest way for Ukraine to beat Putin and end the war with Russia. Logic, however, suggests more fighting and dying and a lack of decision for either side.

Best not confuse a “strong hand” with a dead man’s one

What’s the best way to end a war? – Bracing Views


If you view this war as just a proxy to try and weaken Russia, it is at the cost of both huge amounts of our taxpayers money, a very concerning and mounting death and general humanitarian toll in Ukraine, accompanied by depopulation (casualties plus refugees) and the systematic destruction of much of the countries infrastructure. Of course Russian lives do not matter in this cynical equation- but to what extent do Ukrainian lives and livelihoods?

And the chance of 'success'? I'll leave that one hanging.

[OhOh]

27 Jan, 2023 20:42 HomeWorld News


Pentagon think tank warns against ‘long war’ in Ukraine

Costs of continued conflict outweigh further benefits to the US, a RAND Corporation study says

"While both Moscow and Kiev think they will benefit from continued fighting, such a turn of events does not serve Washington’s best interests, the Pentagon’s think tank RAND Corporation argues in a new report published on Friday.Authored by Samuel Charap and Miranda Priebe, “Avoiding a Long War” accepts the prevailing premises about the conflict, but notes that US interests “often align with but are not synonymous with Ukrainian interests.”

According to the authors, the conflict has already inflicted significant economic, military and reputational damage on Russia, so its “further incremental weakening is arguably no longer as significant a benefit for US interests.”

The price to the West has not been insignificant either, from the disruption to energy, food and fertilizer markets to the cost of “keeping the Ukrainian state economically solvent,” which will only “multiply over time.”

NATO’s military aid to Ukraine “could also become unsustainable after a certain period,” while Russia may “reverse Ukrainian battlefield gains,” they said. The conflict is “absorbing senior policymakers’ time and US military resources,” distracting Washington from other global priorities, such as China, while pushing Moscow closer to Beijing.

In short, the consequences of a long war – ranging from persistent elevated escalation risks to economic damage – far outweigh the possible benefits."

Continues at:

Pentagon think tank warns against ‘long war’ in Ukraine — RT World News

[OhOh]

27 Jan, 2023 13:49 HomeWorld News

Private military competition: Why the US is really so worried about Russia's Wagner

Having used private contractors like Blackwater for decades, Washington is now 'concerned' about the new household-name PMC

"Interference in other countries' affairs via private contractors has long been a staple of US influence operations. Now, Washington is trying to accuse Russia of doing the same, and it's suddenly a bad thing.First off the mark doesn’t always win the race.

Does anyone remember when BlackBerry mobile devices were everywhere and barely anyone had heard of an iPhone, for example?

Well, the US created the BlackBerry of private military/security contractors – Blackwater – after decades of outsourcing military and intelligence operations through various front companies. And now they’re so preoccupied with the new iPhone equivalent – Russia’s Wagner Group – that Washington is tracking its activities (including unconfirmed ops) in Ukraine, Syria, across Africa, and Serbia, according to cables obtained by POLITICO.

“The US government is concerned about the extent to which Wagner is interfering in sovereign countries’ internal politics, violating human rights, and robbing them of their mineral wealth,” according to a “senior administration official” cited in the report.

Leaving aside Washington’s newfound concern for developing countries’ sovereignty over their mineral wealth when that’s often the main underlying reason why they’re typically targeted by the US for some freedom and democracy through firepower in the first place, it’s hard to ignore that the presence of the Wagner Group seems to be concentrated in locations already known for being targeted by clandestine US and allied activities.

Last year, for example, Mali chose the Wagner Group for a new partnership after kicking out French forces whose efforts to secure the country were so spectacular that there were two coups d’etat in as many years. Wagner Group’s possible presence in Serbia is now being widely discussed. The PMC has allegedly established itself in a “cultural center” in Belgrade, but these claims, initially sourced from a Telegram post, have been denied both by Wagner head Evgeny Prigozhin and Serbian President Aleksandar Vucic, who also recently criticized Serbian-language Wagner recruitment ads that appeared on social media."

Continues at:

Private military competition: Why the US is really so worried about Russia's Wagner — RT World News

[OhOh]

Military operation in Ukraine

28 Jan, 03:52

Brazil rejects sending tank shells to Germany over concern of handover to Ukraine — report

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva justified his rejection by arguing that one "should not provoke the Russians"

RIO DE JANEIRO, January 27. /TASS/.

"Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva refused to consider an option to send tank ammunition to Germany over concerns that these shells could be handed over to Ukraine, the Folha de Sao Paulo reported Friday.

According to the report, the decision was made on January 20, during the meeting with top military command ahead of the resignation of Ground Forces commander Julio Cesar de Arruda. According to the report, it was Arruda, who raised the question of sending ammunition to Germany during the meeting.

The Brazilian leader justified his rejection by arguing that one "should not provoke the Russians."
According to the newspaper, the shells in question are ammunition for Leopard 1 tanks.

This is not the first time Germany attempted to reach an agreement with Brazil on handover of German-made weapons to Ukraine. Last year, Berlin was denied to buy ammunition for Gepard air defense systems, the report notes."

Continues at:

https://tass.com/world/1568321

[OhOh]

27 Jan, 22:50

North Korea to always be ‘in the same trench’ with Russia — Kim’s sister

No amount of reckless attempts will let the imperialist coalition forces overpower the heroic spirit of the army and people of Russia, distinguished by fiery patriotism, resilience and strong morale," Kim Yo-jong said.

TOKYO, January 27. /TASS/.

"The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) will always "stand in the same trench" side by side with the Russian army and people, Kim Yo-jong, the Deputy Department Director of the Publicity and Information Department of the Workers' Party of Korea, sister of the North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said on Friday.

In a statement released by the KCNA news agency, she vowed that the DPRK will "always stand in the same trench, together with the army and the people of Russia, who have stood up to defend the dignity and honor of the state and the sovereignty and security of their country."

She slammed the US decision to hand over Abrams tanks to Ukraine as "a vile step."

"I have no doubt that any weapons that the United States and the West are proud of will burn to dust and turn into scrap metal in the face of the relentless combat spirit and might of the heroic army and people of Russia," Kim Yo-jong added."

Continues at:

North Korea to always be ‘in the same trench’ with Russia — Kim’s sister - World - TASS

[misskit]

^^^ The paper here.

Avoiding a Long War: U.S. Policy and the Trajectory of the Russia-Ukraine Conflict | RAND

[Norton]

Be great if everyone watched this video. George and Chris hit the nail right on the head.

Watched it all. Several nails but the nail they hit squarely on the head was the political power of the MIC. The other nails of which there were several either missed the head completely or had nothing to do with the current situation in the Ukraine. Yes, there were historical failed diplomatic opportunities that could have prevented this war but let's not forget they were historical.

As with all those who scold the US (west) for war mongering they fail to address the fundamental question which is,

What should the west have done when Russia invaded the Ukraine? Only 2 choices so refraine from the shoulda, coulda smoke screen. Do what they are doing now or do nothing.


B

[sabang]

But they woulda/ coulda/ shoulda prevented it! It was not hard at all, so it is germane to ask why not, given the significant impact it has had on the world economy (to say nothing of Ukraine).

This is where dry, boring economics enters the picture. I think the US, with all of it's hegemonic clout, thought it could bring bring Russia to it's knees economically speaking if they had the temerity to call the US bluff, and invade- this was the real 'nuclear option'. Given their seemingly pathogenic hatred of Putin, it would have also represented a major win. Much to all of our surprise it couldn't. The Russian economy has proved to be surprisingly resilient, and it's trade relations with the 'global south' have only grown to make up for the deficit with Europe, aided by the fact there are now mechanisms to conduct trade outside of the SWIFT/ western banking system, and USD.

In a global/ geopolitical sense this is probably the most significant implication of this war, imho. The risk of escalation remains a concern though.

[Norton]

But they woulda/ coulda/ shoulda prevented it!

Historical Smoke. It wasn't prevented so, the question remains. Do nothing or arm the Ukraine?

[bsnub]

No one could have stopped this war. Putin had been planning to invade for years. He is hellbent on trying to reclaim the USSR. The crap spewed by Sabang and his little clown car of talking heads is just that. Crap.

[sabang]

Do nothing or arm the Ukraine?

They were always going to arm Ukraine, of course- they were arming, training and part funding it well before the Russian incursion.

[sabang]

^^ My 'little clown car of talking heads' includes Jack Matlock, Henry Kissinger, Jeffrey Sachs, Pat Buchanan, David Stockman, Noam Chomsky, John Mearsheimer and many, many more prominent people- some, such as George Keenan and Stephen Cohen, now dead.
Your little unicycle of a talking head is just a simplistic narrative the gullible are being peddled via popular media. This outcome has been warned about for years, and could still have been prevented in the final stages leading up to the escalation.

[Norton]

They were always going to arm Ukraine, of course- they were arming, training and part funding it well before the Russian incursion.

Ok. Fair nuff.

The risk of escalation remains a concern though.

It will escalate. How far is yet to be determined.

[bsnub]

My 'little clown car of talking heads' includes Jack Matlock, Henry Kissinger, Jeffrey Sachs, Pat Buchanan, David Stockman, Noam Chomsky, John Mearsheimer and many, many more prominent people- some, such as George Keenan and Stephen Cohen, now dead.

A bunch of has-beens and ultracrepidarians.

Your little unicycle of a talking head is just a simplistic narrative the gullible are being peddled via popular media.

You spend a lot of time worshiping Putin, but you really have not a clue of his mindset.