Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

You mean, the Forum intellectuals?

You are the polar opposite of one of those. You are a shill, a useful idiot and a complete buffoon. Just like your brain-dead ankle biting lapdog Icebitch.

I don't think the likes of Macgregor, Kissinger, Matlock, Chomsky, Mearsheimer, Buchanan etc give two hoots about being called a stooge

Ah yes, your clown car of utter old fools. You have been posting their delusional drivel here for months. To be clear, those buffoons all blathered on for months that Putin would never invade.

[bsnub]

Shaping the battle space.



Ukraine has attacked a barracks in the Russian-occupied city of Melitopol with some Ukrainian sources claiming scores of Russian casualties.

According to witnesses 10 explosions were heard, although some of those may have been from Russian anti-aircraft systems. Ukrainian officials claimed scores of Russian dead and injured while Russia conceded a handful of casualties.

Video footage posted on social media showed what was claimed to be a Russian barracks in the southern city engulfed in a fierce blaze with some claiming the site was being used by the Wagner mercenary group.

Another video showed rescue workers in the ruins with several bodies visible.

The site, a former resort and hotel complex next to a church in the city known as the Hunter’s Halt, was being used as a barracks with most of the casualties apparently in a mess hall when it was hit.

The strike on Melitopol – reportedly with Himars rockets – was one of several overnight on Russian bases. Explosions were also reported overnight in the Russian occupied Crimea including Sevastopol and Simferopol.

The strike on Melitopol came as all non-critical infrastructure in the Ukrainian port of Odesa was without power after Russia used Iranian-made drones on Saturday to hit two energy facilities, leaving 1.5 million people cut off from electricity.

“The situation in the Odesa region is very difficult,” President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address.

“Unfortunately, the hits were critical, so it takes more than just time to restore electricity … It doesn’t take hours, but a few days, unfortunately.”

In Melitopol the pro-Moscow authorities said a missile attack on Saturday evening killed two people and injured 10, while the exiled Ukrainian mayor said scores of “invaders” were killed.
Reuters could not independently verify the reports of the attacks or deaths.

“Air defence systems destroyed two missiles, four reached their targets,” Yevgeny Balitsky, the Moscow-appointed governor of the occupied part of the Zaporizhzhia region, said on the Telegram messaging app.

He said a “recreation centre” where people were dining was destroyed in the Ukrainian attack with Himars missiles.
The exiled mayor, Ivan Fedorov, said on his Telegram channel that the attack hit a church that Russians had turned into a gathering place.

Vladimir Rogov, another Moscow-installed official in the Russian-controlled part of Zaporizhzhia, said a fire caused by the strike engulfed the recreation centre. He posted a video of a structure in flames.

Himars multiple rocket launchers have been among Ukraine’s most effective weapons in the war, delivering precision fire on hundreds of targets, including Russian command posts. On Friday, the United States said it was sending more aid to Kyiv to strengthen its air defences and defeat drones.

The city of Melitopol is seen as the next major objective for Ukrainian forces in the south of the country since Ukraine retook the major city of Kherson.

With Ukrainian forces now operating on the east bank of the Dnieper River, opposite Kherson, and with their forces now able to place Himars rocket systems on the west bank, Russian forces in the city have come under an increasing threat.

Oleksiy Arestovych, an adviser to the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said Melitopol, a major industrial and transport centre occupied by Russia since March, was the key to south.

“All logistics linking the Russian forces on the eastern part of the Kherson region and all the way to the Russian border near Mariupol is carried out through it,” Arestovych said in a video interview on social media.

“If Melitopol falls, the entire [Russian] defence line all the way to Kherson collapses. Ukrainian forces gain a direct route to Crimea.”

There was no immediate comment from the Ukrainian army about the attacks. Earlier in the day, the central command of Ukraine’s armed forces said it had been conducting strikes on Melitopol.

Ukrainian strike hits Russian barracks in occupied Melitopol | Ukraine | The Guardian

[bsnub]

Ukraine launches missile attack on Russian-occupied Melitopol, explosions reported in Donetsk and Crimea


Multiple explosions have been reported in the Russian-occupied city of Melitopol in southern Ukraine, in the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic and in annexed Crimea – including at a Russian military barracks.

The explosions in Melitopol came amid reports from officials on both sides that Ukraine had launched a missile attack on the city on Saturday, while Russian state media said 20 missiles hit the Donetsk People’s Republic on Sunday morning.

Separately, reports also emerged of multiple explosions in Russian-annexed Crimea, including at a military barracks in Sovietske.

Melitopol’s Moscow-installed administrators said four missiles hit the city, killing two and injuring 10, while Melitopol’s mayor reported several explosions, including at a church occupied by Russian forces.

However, Ukrainian officials have not commented on the explosions in Crimea or in the Donetsk People’s Republic and CNN is unable to verify the cause of the blasts or the extent of the damage.

Missiles hit Melitopol, DPR

Melitopol, in Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhia Oblast, has been under Russian occupation since early March.

Yevgeny Balitsky, Russia’s acting governor of Zaporizhzhia, said the missile attack on Melitopol had “completely destroyed” a recreation center where “people, civilians, and [military] base personnel were having dinner on Saturday night.”

The strikes were acknowledged by Ivan Fedorov, Ukraine’s former administrator of Melitopol city, who said they had targeted Russian military bases.

Federov last month said Russia had turned Melitopol into “one giant military base.”

“The Russian military is settling in local houses they seized, schools and kindergartens. Military equipment is stationed in residential areas,” Federov said in November.

The Melitopol mayor Ivan Fedorov said there had been several explosions, including at the Melitopol Christian Church, “which the occupiers seized several months ago and turned into their hideout.”

Fedorov, who is not in Melitopol, said there were dead and wounded among the Russian forces there.

Meanwhile, Russian officials said Sunday morning that Ukrainian missiles had hit several apartment buildings in the Donetsk People’s Republic and that some landed near the Opera and Ballet Theater and the Kalinin Hospital.

Alexei Kulemzin, head of the Russian-backed city administration, said Ukraine launched 20 Grad missiles around 5:54 a.m. local time Sunday in the direction of the Voroshilovsky and Kalininsky districts.

Kulemzin said Ukraine also shelled the city’s Kyivskiy district late Saturday night around 11:03 p.m. local time.

The Ukrainian military has not yet confirmed or commented on the attack.

Donetsk has been held by Russian-backed separatists since 2014.

Ukraine’s southern Dnipropetrovsk region was also shelled overnight with Grad and heavy artillery, Valentyn Reznichenko, the head of the Dnipropetrovsk regional military administration, said on Telegram Sunday. There were no casualties, he said.

The communities of Nikopol, Chervonohryhorivka and Marhanets were hit, Reznichenko said, adding that more than 50 shells were fired. The Nikopol district, in the Dnipropetrovsk region, sits across the river from the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

In the community of Chervonohryhorivka, gas pipelines and power lines were damaged, along with 15 houses, several outbuildings and cars, he said. Three villages were left without electricity and water, he said, adding that emergency crews have already started repair work.

Explosions in Crimea

The attack on Melitopol came amid social media footage and reports of several blasts in the Crimean city of Simferopol at around 9 p.m. local time on Saturday.

There were also reports of explosions in Sevastopol, the headquarters of the Russian Black Sea fleet; at a Russian military barracks in Sovietske; and in Hvardiiske, Dzhankoi and Nyzhniohirskyi
The blasts come after Moscow ramped up its missile attacks on Ukraine last week, following Russian claims that Kyiv was behind recent drone hits on military airfields deep inside its territory.

There are conflicting accounts surrounding the explosions in Crimea.

The unofficial Crimean media portal “Krymskyi veter” said an explosion at a Russian military barracks in Sovietske had set the barracks on fire and there were dead and wounded.

However, a pro-Russian Crimean channel claimed that the fire at the barracks had been caused by “careless handling of fire.”

“Two people died. Now all the servicemen, about two hundred people, are accommodated in another premises,” it said.

Sergey Aksenov, the Russian-appointed head of Crimea, said on Telegram: “The air defense system worked over Simferopol. All services are working as usual.

Mikhail Razvozhaev, governor of Sevastopol, said the explosions were due to firing exercises.

Ukraine launches missile attack on Russian-occupied Melitopol | CNN

[bsnub]

KHERSON AXIS /0350 UTC 11 DEC/ UKR Partisan elements identified a Russian HQ/Barracks facility outside the urban area of Melitopol. The complex, formerly a luxury spa/hotel, was engaged by UKR long range precision strike artillery on 10 DEC.

[bsnub]

A fucking small truck can not even drive across the Kerch Bridge right now...



The rail bridge is still completely disabled.



So much winning. Yet, I am the one that is dumb.

[sabang]

You are sounding downright disturbed this evening junior recruit. What ails thee?

[bsnub]

You are sounding downright disturbed this evening junior recruit. What ails thee?

You as usual are a brainless fuckwit.

This is great news, I am posting after having been out for a nice weekend in the great Cascade mountains winter wonderland. So there is no interwebs at my Aunts cabin in the woods. I am getting caught up.

I come back to see that the Ukrainians are "shaping" Melitopol for the coming winter offensive. The Ukrainians used their new toy, a Turkish TRG-230, a very accurate piece of kit that has a 150 km range, which is double the range of the current HIMARS rockets Ukraine has. They are putting them to good use too, already hitting Donetsk and Crimea as well.

What a nice surprise after a great couple of days in the mountains!

Slava Ukraini!

[sabang]

Just can't stop with the childish, petulant insults (well, attempted) can we? Impressed by your weekend expedition to the Cascades, but will you ever actually make it to Thailand? You are, as best I know, unique among TDers in this respect. Anyway, pardon me for laughing at you, but you do display your lack of maturity, general IQ level, and general lack of sophistication on a daily basis before the whole TD readership.

Now, what did General Wesley Clark say in a recent interview with CNN, again?

[Norton]

[Iceman123]

^
Excellent unbiased report

[helge]

While I personally do consider you stupid, I think childish and petulant is closer to the mark.

I'll stick with what Herman posted a while ago:

"BSnub is a bit too much at times"

[HermantheGerman]

No corruption in the Ukrainian army then. Or US navy.

korrupstiya + rossiya = korruprossiya

Soviet Union/Russia hold the lonely world record of being the oldest and most corrupt country in the world.
The funny thing is, you can not even insult a Russian with this. They will just nod their head and agree, smile and make a joke about it.

Do you have anything else news worthy to tell us Sabang?

[sabang]

Bloodless War in Ukraine

Tune In to War, Turn On to Heroes, Otherwise Drop Out



Bill Astor







In 2010, I wrote an article for TomDispatch on “the new American isolationism.” I argued that Americans were being kept isolated from the horrific costs of the war on terror, rather than pursuing old-style isolationist policies to keep us out of war. Here’s how I opened that article:

“A new isolationism is metastasizing in the American body politic. At its heart lies not an urge to avoid war, but an urge to avoid contemplating the costs and realities of war. It sees war as having analgesic qualities — as lessening a collective feeling of impotence, a collective sense of fear and terror. Making war in the name of reducing terror serves this state of mind and helps to preserve it. Marked by a calculated estrangement from war’s horrific realities and mercenary purposes, the new isolationism magically turns an historic term on its head, for it keeps us in wars, rather than out of them.”

This is as true today as it was when I wrote it a dozen years ago. Americans are never encouraged to look at the ugly face of war, unless it involves alleged war crimes by “evildoers” like Russia. With Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Americans have been encouraged to think about alleged mass rapes, mass murder, deliberate targeting of civilians, and the like. Alleged crimes by Ukraine, by comparison, are largely dismissed as Russian propaganda.

All wars produce atrocities because war itself is an atrocity. Tell me how constant artillery shelling won’t produce civilian casualties; tell me how bullets being sprayed everywhere, missiles being fired from a distance, explosive drones being employed, mines being planted, bombs being dropped: tell me how war won’t kill innocents. Tell me how war, in all its confusion and chaos, won’t produce “friendly fire” casualties. (Remember Pat Tillman?) Tell me how POWs won’t be mistreated by both sides, despite the Geneva Convention, or how civilian populations won’t be exploited in one way or another. War has always been recognized as a plague on humanity and civilization, which is why it should be the absolute last resort.

Yet far too often war is sold as necessary, even desirable, with heavy censorship accompanying it. Recall that in the Bush/Cheney years, as U.S. KIA (killed in action) figures rose, especially in Iraq, Americans weren’t allowed to see flag-draped caskets returning to our soil. Out of sight, out of mind, right? We were told to salute the generals and support “our” troops, but not to question Bush and Cheney’s wars and not to consider their horrific costs, certainly not to Iraqis and Afghans or other “foreigners.”






Grisly images like this one of a dead Iraqi soldier were not shown in America

Today in America, Ukrainians are almost universally celebrated as the good guys, the Russians are bad, thus the more dead Russians the better. Not surprisingly, Ukraine’s leader is Time Magazine’s person of the year. He is a hero, Putin is the devil, and that’s all you need to know.

Demonizing an enemy is a dangerous thing, for how can you negotiate with the devil? It’s a surefire way of firing people up but also of prolonging a war, which means more destruction, more atrocities, and a lot more body bags. Yes, I want Russia to withdraw from Ukraine. Yes, I don’t want Putin to “win” in any sense of the word. But at what price total victory for Ukraine?

So I read passages that Ukraine must “push back” and “expel” the Russian invader and that all territory must be “won back.” Bloodless phrases that reduce war to something like a game of Risk, where troops are just counters on a game board, and where winning and losing is determined by a roll of the dice.

In actuality what expressions like these mean is perhaps another 100,000 Russian and Ukrainian troops killed and wounded; buildings and homes blasted; plants and animals obliterated by more human-caused destruction; water and the land itself poisoned.

Will it be worth it? Is there perhaps another way? Couldn’t Ukrainians and Russians come together to talk, to settle their differences, without more killing? How many more widows must be made, how many more children must be killed or left as orphans, in the cause of “victory”?

I’m told it’s not up to me to decide. I’m encouraged to support Time Magazine’s Person of the Year in his holy war against the evil Putin. But all I see is more and more dead bodies, even as more and more “Made in USA” weapons are sent to Ukraine to multiply the dead, even as my taxpayer dollars help to fund it.

And, once again, I am kept isolated from it all, physically of course but also mentally, encouraged to tune in to pro-Ukrainian war coverage, to turn on to heroic leaders like Zelensky, but otherwise to drop out of truly thinking about war and its horrendous costs as well as its escalatory pressures.


https://bracingviews.substack.com/p/bloodless-war-in-ukraine

[bsnub]

More complete crap, eh?

[sabang]

William J. Astore, a retired lieutenant colonel (USAF), earned a doctorate in modern history from the University of Oxford in 1996. He has taught military cadets at the Air Force Academy, officers at the Naval Postgraduate School, and now teaches at the Pennsylvania College of Technology. His books and articles, focusing primarily on military history, include Hindenburg: Icon of German Militarism (Potomac Press, 2005).

Bill Astore - Antiwar.com Blog


I believe he served in Afghanistan too. What would he know, compared to a chickenhawk?

[bsnub]

So complete shit confirmed. More crap from your propaganda site.

[bsnub]

For those of us who actually want to follow along with the war in a war thread and not read complete propaganda crap. Kremenna has major strategic value, as it exposes Severodonetsk and Lysychans'k to attack.

KREMENNA AXIS /0245 UTC 12 DEC/ UKR task elements have crossed the Krasna River and engaged RU units at Pischane. These attacks have compelled RU to divert forces from defensive positions west and south of Kremenna to cover the important rail and road junction at Zhytlivka.

[sabang]

Beware of Long Wars

Ukrainian Attacks on Russia Are Dangerously Escalatory




Bill Astore


Reports that Ukraine is launching modified drones to strike airbases deep in Russia highlight the unpredictability and escalatory nature of wars. Ukraine is no longer content at defending itself against Russian aggression; Russia itself must be made a target, which will likely provoke harsher Russian counterattacks. Meanwhile, the U.S. Congress continues to authorize billions in military aid to Ukraine, which is pitched as defending democracy and freedom.


War is many things but it is rarely democratic. Indeed, as James Madison warned, war is inherently anti-democratic. It strengthens authoritarian forces and contributes to abuses of power and corruption. As the Russia-Ukraine War goes on, with no clear resolution in sight, Ukraine suffers more even as the chances of escalation rise.


What’s needed now is resolute diplomacy — a committed effort to end the war by all parties involved, obviously Russia and Ukraine but also the U.S. and NATO. The longer this disastrous war lasts, the more unpredictable it will become, the more atrocious it will prove, and the more likely ordinary Ukrainians and Russians will suffer and die, whether at various battlefronts or on the homefront.

Negotiation is not weakness nor is it appeasement. Negotiation is sensible, rational, and life-affirming. But there’s little reason for Ukraine to negotiate when it’s enjoying a blank check of support from the U.S. and NATO.

Meanwhile, as Ukraine continues striking deep into Russia, one wonders to what extent the U.S. military and intelligence agencies are involved. Did the U.S. provide technology? Targeting information? Intelligence? Or is Ukraine doing this entirely on its own, a scenario that is less than comforting?

I sure hope the U.S. and Russia are talking. In the confusion and chaos of war, how is Russia to know for sure that an attack on one of their strategic air bases is coming from Ukraine and not from NATO territory? Even if it's clearly coming from Ukraine, if these attacks are enabled or approved by the U.S./NATO, will the Russians see them as an act of war? Will they respond militarily, creating even more escalatory pressure?

Bizarrely, Ukraine’s defensive war against Russia has been sold as America’s “good” war, a chance to weaken Russia and Putin in the cause of defending Ukrainian “democracy.” But as Ukraine’s tactics turn more offensive, and as the Ukrainian government likely becomes more authoritarian due to the pressures of war, how wise is it for the United States to continue to send massive amounts of military aid there while discouraging diplomacy?

Policies that end in prolonging the Russia-Ukraine War in the name of teaching Putin a lesson and eroding his power may teach us all a lesson in how war is not just anti-democratic. War runs to extremes, and only fools believe they can control it in a way that is conducive to liberty and freedom and justice.

Beware of Long Wars - by Bill Astore - Bracing Views

For those who require considerably more intellectual fodder than endless, repetitive daily war reports giving one side of the story, dutifully copied and pasted by a patsy. But I will chuck in one every now and gain, from the Russian perspective.

[bsnub]

Ukrainian Attacks on Russia Are Dangerously Escalatory

What a complete joke. When a nation has been invaded, nothing it does to defend its territory is "escalatory" if that is even a word. The crap is really flying tonight by the useful idiots.

Eat shit.

[bsnub]

A Sunday report out of Ukraine revealed that the headquarters of a prominent Russian mercenary group had been heavily damaged in an attack, dealing another setback to Russian President Vladimir Putin's increasingly beleaguered invasion.

The report emerged out of the city of Kadiivka in the Luhansk region, where the Wagner mercenary group was headquartered in a hotel. Luhansk Governor Serhiy Haidai said that the hotel was struck by Ukrainian forces, with major losses suffered among the group's private military contractors (PMCs). Half of the contractors are expected to die as a result of the attack, according to the governor.

Wagner Group is a state-sponsored mercenary outfit that takes orders from the Kremlin, according to a BBC report, and has been accused of numerous war crimes and abuses. Over the years, it has been deployed to such wartime theaters such as Crimea, Syria, Libya, Mali, and the Central African Republic.

Yevgeny Prigozhin, a close Putin ally and the Russian oligarch in charge of Wagner, confirmed in the wake of the attack that neither he nor his son, Pavel, were present at the hotel.

Newsweek was unable to independently confirm the details of the report, and reached out to Russian officials for comment.

Luhansk is the easternmost region of Ukraine and shares a long border with Russia. Along with the Donetsk region, it makes up the larger Donbas region that has been the centerpiece of the invasion, with the Kremlin saying that ethnic Russians were being persecuted in the area, based on dubious evidence. The Donbas region and two others were formally annexed by Russia in late September, though these claims remain broadly unrecognized on the international stage.

The conflict in Ukraine has escalated in recent weeks, with Russian strikes battering southern cities like Odesa, leaving residents without power for long stretches of time as the winter season begins.

On Saturday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky confirmed in a statement that roughly 1.5 million residents in and around Odesa were without power following an overnight attack by Russian forces. Despite that setback, the statement also said that a majority of the Iranian drones used to carry out the attack had been shot down.

"In total, Russian terrorists used 15 Shahed drones against Odesa," the statement read. "During one night on Saturday. This is the true attitude of Russia towards Odesa, towards Odesa residents—deliberate bullying, deliberate attempt to bring disaster to the city. Our sky defenders managed to shoot down 10 drones out of 15. Well done!"

While timelines from Zelensky and other Ukrainian officials differ, it is generally expected that the repairs to the region's power grid will take longer than usual due to the intensity of the attacks from Moscow.

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-mer...report-1766244

[Shutree]

Beware of Long Wars

As a suggestion, we could shorten this war considerably if Putin and his mercenaries simply fvcked off back to Russia. Personally I think that would be an excellent idea.

[bsnub]

The winter offensive is coming. Watch Svatove and Melitopol this winter. The battlefield is already being shaped. Russia and its useful idiots have much humiliation coming this winter.

[sabang]

War porn time


Russian troops broke through the defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Velika Novosyolka area



Russian troops went on the offensive in the Ugledar direction and broke through the defenses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area of ​​Velikaya Novoselka, forcing the enemy to abandon the first line of defense. This was announced in his TG channel by the commander of the Vostok battalion Alexander Khodakovsky.



According to the commander of Vostok, units of Russian troops broke through the Ukrainian front. The enemy, who held the defense in this direction, was forced to abandon the first line of defense and retreat to the second, where he entrenched himself, pulling up reserves. Currently, hostilities are taking place on the second line of defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, ours cannot put the squeeze on the enemy, the Vushniks do not have the strength to push ours back. However, it gets dark quickly, and with the onset of darkness, the activity of hostilities will come to naught.

(...) The enemy could not hold the advanced positions - he retreated to the second line at the same time as pulling up the reserve, and showed the main resistance at this turn. While the situation is floating, but the imminent onset of darkness will force to reduce activity

Khodakovsky said.

Fighting in the Neskuchnoye area, followed by Velikaya Novoselka

Earlier, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported on the advance of Russian troops in the Krasno-Limansky direction, where units of the Russian Armed Forces reached new frontiers and took up more convenient positions for themselves. But in the South-Donetsk direction, which is Ugledarskoye, the Ministry of Defense had no information about the beginning of the offensive of the Russian troops. It was reported that the enemy tried to attack in the direction of Neskuchnoye, fell under artillery fire and, having lost up to 40 personnel and several pieces of equipment, retreated.

Attempts by the Armed Forces of Ukraine to dislodge our units from their positions in Pavlovka, bordering on Ugledar, continue, but to no avail.

https://en.topwar.ru/206589-rossijskie-vojska-prorvali-oboronu-vsu-v-rajone-velikoj-novoselki.html

[sabang]

https://s2.cdnstatic.space/wp-conten...kraine_map.jpg





https://s2.cdnstatic.space/wp-conten...kraine_map.jpg


For the dedicated lovers of daily maps.

[NamPikToot]

Personally I think that would be an excellent idea.

agreed, this conflict has no place in the 21st C, lets hope it sees an end to Putin and ideas of Russian expansionism. Both Ukr and Rus will pay for this Russian own goal for generations.