Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

If you cannot back up your claims better to stfu.

Some of your posts in this thread...

Says the man who claims Ukraine is winning

Yep I am on the side of reality, and unfortunately Ukraine are losing.

Now when are you going to accept the reality that Ukraine are not winning.

the Ukraine has virtually no chance against a superior force in numbers and equipment.

Who’s winning now on planet Bsnub?

here on earth Ukraine are losing for sure.

I will repeat to try to get it to sink in “Russia is winning”

It is you that needs to shut the fuck up. You have been making a fool of yourself for months in here.

[bsnub]

the way you own up and man up when you are definitively proven wrong, like a real man with integrity does.

You post lies and lie in this forum almost every fucking day. You are a massive hypocrite if there ever was one.

Neither of you two dipshits can answer a simple question. Why have Russians not taken Bakhmut yet? After all, apparently even an American general says it is a meat grinder, even if he did not specify who it is a meat grinder for as you falsely claimed.

Why have the mighty Russians not taken Bakhmut after months of trying?

Why did they get smashed in Kherson, Kharkiv, Kyiv, Chernihiv and literally everyplace else? Where is all this Russian winning taking place?

[Neverna]

Serious question:

How do we (you) define which side is "winning" in this war?

(a) Comparing the number of dead on each side so far? [Neither side is giving their own figures]
(b) Comparing the territory gained so far?
(c) Comparing the amount of territory lost then regained so far?
(d) ??

[Iceman123]

^^
Dumb people like you Snubbie, have to wait until the final whistle.

Look at the damage done done to Ukraine and it’s people, counter that with the Russian situation.

Ukraine is most certainly not winning. No amount of your laughing emoji’s will convince me otherwise

[bsnub]

How do we define which side is "winning" in this war?

Just wait a bit longer. The ground is currently freezing over. Then it will become very clear who is winning the war. No attacking army has ever fared well in the winter in Ukraine. One hundred thousand Germans froze in the winter time without proper cold weather gear during WW2. The Russians have none of that.

The coming Ukrainian offensive is going to be brutal.

[bsnub]

Dumb people like you Snubbie, have to wait until the final whistle.

I am far smarter and better educated than a dumb ass bogan clown like yourself.

Ukraine is most certainly not winning. No amount of your laughing emoji’s will convince me otherwise

Pretty soon, you will be once again be made a fool of. Remember that.

[Iceman123]

OMG you are passing out your sources classified information.
Now the Russkies will know it gets cold in winter.

[bsnub]

Now the Russkies will know it gets cold in winter.

The Germans knew that too. It did not help them either.

[sabang]

"It also serves as a sort of killing ground, for grinding up the Ukrainian forces"

"He's got a place where the Ukrainians do have to hold. They are dug in, they are holding- but they're taking heavy losses. So it's a meat grinder."

Gen Wesley Clark, CNN Interview

Quite funny your meltdown there snubski. So not gonna man up and admit that you were, erm, mistaken before the whole forum that knows you are? Didn't think so.

[bsnub]

Why haven't the Russians taken Bakhmut?



I am rather enjoying slapping you idiots around tonight. Both of you putin knobgobblers are having rings run around you.

[sabang]

Why haven't the Ukrainians taken Donetsk, or Luhansk? Why do bears shit in the woods? Dunno. Gonna man up corporal snubski, NAFO regiment? Or not?




General Wesley Clark, Not the NAFO regiment.

[Norton]

"It also serves as a sort of killing ground, for grinding up the Ukrainian forces"
General Wesley Clark, 5 Dec 2022

[bsnub]

Why haven't the Ukrainians taken Donetsk, or Luhansk?

In do time. First, they will take Melitopol.

As usual, you responded with a whataboutism because you can not answer my question.

"It also serves as a sort of killing ground, for grinding up the Ukrainian forces"
General Wesley Clark, 5 Dec 2022

So who is suffering worse casualties there? Why have the Russians not taken the city?

[Iceman123]

^
Any timeline on when Crimea goes back to Ukraine?

[sabang]

More than 100,000 Russian military personnel killed or wounded in Ukraine, with Kyiv’s forces likely suffering a similar figure, top American general says.


About 100,000 Russian soldiers have been killed and wounded since the invasion of Ukraine, and Kyiv’s armed forces “probably” suffered a similar level of casualties, the top US general says.

General Mark Milley’s remarks on Wednesday offer the highest US estimate of casualties to date in the nearly nine-month-old conflict, and came as Ukraine and Russia face a potential winter lull in fighting that analysts say could offer an opportunity for some kind of negotiations.


Asked about prospects for diplomacy in Ukraine, Milley noted the early refusal to negotiate in World War I compounded human suffering and led to millions more casualties.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/11/10/us-general-over-100000-russian-military-casualties-in-ukraine


But what would General Milley know- he's Not NAFO.






Still not gonna man up then, and show some personal integrity corporal? Guess you're going back to private.

[bsnub]

Any timeline on when Crimea goes back to Ukraine?

I do not make timelines. Ukraine is prosecuting this war on its own timetable because it is in control. General Valerii Zaluzhnyi will be the one to make that call. When the thunder run for Melitopol starts, you will know that the Crimean domino will fall soon after.

Still not gonna man up then, and show some personal integrity corporal? Guess you're going back to private.

As soon as you fess up to the 10,000 lies and propaganda pieces of shit you have posted in here.

General Mark Milley’s remarks

Ya you left out this part of course...

“Russia right now is on its back. The Russian military is suffering tremendously,” Milley said during the news conference alongside Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin. “You want to negotiate at a time when you’re at strength and your opponent is at weakness.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ine-negotiate/

[sabang]

The Ukraine War is an extremely dangerous war between nuclear superpowers in a world desperately in need of peace and cooperation.



JEFFREY D. SACHS
December 5, 2022

There is a new glimmer of hope for a quick negotiated end to the war in Ukraine.

In his recent press conference with French President Emmanuel Macron, President Joe Biden stated, “I'm prepared to speak with Mr. Putin if in fact, there is an interest in him deciding he's looking for a way to end the war. He hasn't done that yet. If that's the case, in consultation with my French and my NATO friends, I'll be happy to sit down with Putin to see what he wants, has in mind.” President Vladimir Putin’s spokesman replied that Russia is ready for negotiations aimed “to ensure our interests.”
Now is the time for mediation, based on the core interests and bargaining space of the three main parties to the conflict: Russia, Ukraine, and the United States.

The war is devastating Ukraine. According to EU President Ursula von der Leyen, Ukraine has already lost 100,000 soldiers and 20,000 civilians. Not only Ukraine but also Russia, the US, and EU—indeed the entire world—stand to benefit enormously from an end to the conflict, lifting both the nuclear dread that hangs over the world today and the devastating economic fallout of the war.

No less an authority than the Chairman of the U.S. Joints Chiefs of Staff, General Mark A. Milley, has urged a negotiated political solution to the conflict, noting that Ukraine’s chance for a military victory, is “not high.”

There are four core issues to negotiate: Ukraine’s sovereignty and security; the fraught issue of NATO enlargement; the fate of Crimea; and the future of the Donbas.
Ukraine demands above all to be a sovereign country, free from Russia’s domination, and with secure borders. There are some in Russia, perhaps including Putin himself, who believe that Ukraine is really part of Russia. There will be no negotiated peace without Russia recognizing Ukraine’s sovereignty and national security backed by explicit international guarantees of the UN Security Council and nations including Germany, India, and Türkiye.

Russia demands above all that NATO renounce its intention to expand to Ukraine and Georgia, which would fully encircle Russia in the Black Sea (adding Ukraine and Georgia to existing Black Sea NATO members Bulgaria, Romania, and Turkey). NATO refers to itself as a defensive alliance, yet Russia believes differently, knowing full well of the U.S. penchant for regime-change operations against governments it opposes (including Ukraine in 2014, with the U.S. role in the overthrow of then pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych).

Russia also claims Crimea as home to Russia’s Black Sea Fleet since 1783. Putin warned George Bush Jr. in 2008 that if the U.S. pushed NATO into Ukraine, Russia would re-take Crimea, which Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev had transferred from Russia to Ukraine in 1954. Until Yanukovich’s overthrow, the Crimea question was handled prudently by Russia-Ukrainian agreements that gave Russia a long-term lease on its naval facilities in Sevastopol, Crimea.

Ukraine and Russia differ heatedly over the Donbas, with its predominantly ethnic Russian population. While the Ukrainian language and cultural identity prevails in most of Ukraine, Russian cultural identity and language prevail in the Donbas. After Yanukovych’s overthrow, the Donbas became a battleground between pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian paramilitaries, with the pro-Russian forces declaring the independence of the Donbas.

The Minsk II agreement of 2015 was a diplomatic agreement to end the fighting, based on autonomy (self-government) for the Donbas region within Ukrainian borders, and respect for the Russian language and culture. After signing, Ukrainian leaders made clear that they resented the agreement and would not honor it. Though France and Germany were guarantors of the agreement, they did not press Ukraine to follow through. From Russia’s point of view, Ukraine and the West thereby repudiated a diplomatic solution to the conflict.

In late 2021, Putin reiterated Russia’s demand for no further enlargement of NATO, especially to Ukraine. The U.S. refused to negotiate over NATO enlargement. NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg provocatively stated at the time that Russia would have no say in the matter, and that only NATO members would decide whether or not to encircle Russia in the Black Sea.

In March 2022, a month after the Russian invasion, Putin and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made substantial progress on a pragmatic negotiated end to the war, based on NATO non-enlargement, international guarantees of sovereignty and security for Ukraine, and the issues of Crimea and the Donbas to be resolved peacefully down the road. Turkish diplomats were the very skilled mediators.

Yet Ukraine then walked away from the negotiating table, perhaps at U.K. and U.S. prodding, and adopted the policy of refusing negotiations until Russia was driven out of Ukraine by military action. The conflict then escalated, with Russia annexing not only the two regions of the Donbas (Luhansk and Donetsk), but also Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions. Recently, Zelensky inflamed the situation by demanding the severing of Ukrainian links with Russian Orthodox institutions, breaking religious ties of ethnic Russians and many ethnic Ukrainians that date back a millennium.

With both the U.S. and Russia now warily approaching the negotiating table, the time for mediation is at hand. Possible mediators include the United Nations, Türkiye, Pope Francis, China, and perhaps others, in some combination. The contours of successful mediation are actually clear, as is the basis for a peace settlement.

The main point for mediation is that all parties have legitimate interests and legitimate grievances. Russia wrongly and violently invaded Ukraine. The U.S. wrongly conspired in the overthrow of Yanukovych in 2014, and then heavily armed Ukraine while pushing NATO enlargement to encircle Russia in the Black Sea. Following Yanukovych, Ukrainian Presidents Petro Poroshenko and Volodymyr Zelensky refused to implement the Minsk II agreement.

Peace will come when the U.S. backs away from further NATO enlargement towards Russia’s borders; Russia withdraws its military forces from Ukraine and backs away from the unilateral annexation of Ukrainian territory; Ukraine backs away from its attempts to retake Crimea and from its repudiation of the Minsk II framework; and all parties agree to secure the sovereign borders of Ukraine under the UN Charter and backed by the guarantees of the UN Security Council and other nations.

The Ukraine War is an extremely dangerous war between nuclear superpowers in a world desperately in need of peace and cooperation. It is time for the U.S. and Russia, two great powers of both the past and future, to show their greatness through mutual respect, diplomacy, and common efforts to ensure sustainable development for all—including for the people of Ukraine, who are most urgently in need of peace and reconstruction.

---

Our work is licensed under Creative Commons (CC BY-NC-ND 3.0). Feel free to republish and share widely.

JEFFREY D. SACHS
Jeffrey D. Sachs is University Professor and Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University, where he directed the Earth Institute from 2002 until 2016. He is President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Co-Chair of the Council of Engineers for the Energy Transition, Commissioner of the UN Broadband Commission for Development, academician of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences at the Vatican, and Tan Sri Jeffrey Cheah Honorary Distinguished Professor at Sunway University. He has been Special Advisor to three United Nations Secretaries-General, and currently serves as an SDG Advocate under Secretary General António Guterres. He spent over twenty years as a professor at Harvard University, where he received his B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. degrees. Sachs has received 41 honorary doctorates, and his recent awards include the 2022 Tang Prize in Sustainable Development, the Legion of Honor by decree of thePresident of the Republic of France, and the Order of the Cross from the President of Estonia. His most recent books are The Ages of Globalization: Geography, Technology, and Institutions (2020) and Ethics in Action for Sustainable Development (2022).

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...-peace-ukraine

[harrybarracuda]

"It also serves as a sort of killing ground, for grinding up the Ukrainian forces"
General Wesley Clark, 5 Dec 2022

"Buy my company's chinese investments"
General Wesley Clark, 2012

"It didn't know they were shit"
General Wesley Clark, 2013

[helge]

Just wait a bit longer. The ground is currently freezing over.

I told you some time ago that it might not be the case down south.

Your compatriot Avril Haines doubt that there will be any advances on either side

Does she read TD ?

No attacking army has ever fared well in the winter in Ukraine.

OK

The coming Ukrainian offensive is going to be brutal.

^

I am rather enjoying slapping you idiots around tonight.

I am far smarter and better educated than a dumb ass bogan clown like yourself.

Just quoting to give you an opportunity to experience what other posters here have to endure

General Valerii Zaluzhnyi will be the one to make that call.

You are only second in command then ?


Now do report my post to your mod friends.

The bint will be on duty soon

[bsnub]

I told you some time ago that it might not be the case down south.

I told you that you were wrong, just like you were wrong about the Kerch Bridge not being exposed to the Black Sea salt water. You Putin knob gobblers have a tendency to talk out the side of your mouths. The average winter temperatures are well below freezing in Melitopol.

Melitopol - Wikipedia

[Iceman123]

How cold was it in the Battle of Stalingrad?
In the second half of November 1942, the influx over Stalingrad particularly strong cold – below –40°C. This paralyzed all German advances, it highly facilitated the Soviet counteroffensive taken Nov. 19th to the north and south of the city

Now lets look at Melitopol using your figures. Mean temp December -0.5C Jan -1.6C.

Not even close!!
Could you be any more disingenuous if you tried?

I think the Russians are well capable of operating in colder temperatures. History is on their side.

The average winter temperatures are well below freezing in Melitopol.

[sabang]

knob gobblers

I wonder how many Grindr accounts NAFO has?

[bsnub]

I think the Russians are well capable of operating in colder temperatures. History is on their side.

It will not be long before you are made a fool of. The Russians are the attacking army. They are outside and exposed with no cold weather gear.

Now lets look at Melitopol using your figures. Mean temp December -0.5C Jan -1.6C.

That is below freezing, dumbshit. It will turn the mud hard, allowing vehicles to travel over it.

These next two months are going to be fantastic! You Putin knob gobblers are going to be made out once again to be epic level bozos. Humiliated already in Kharkiv and Kherson.



More humiliation is coming.

[Iceman123]

More humiliation is coming.

I am not sure you can take anymore, however well done for sticking to your fantasies.

[bsnub]