Ukraine war mega thread

[harrybarracuda]

I had a meeting with a renowned local Thai businessman today who deals mainly with European customers over the last 30 years and this present situation is hurting real time amongst his European customer base.

Orders down by 60% and unless things change, or are resolved, he sees a potential disaster and he is only a small player in the bigger picture.

I'm pretty sure there was a recession in 1938 as well.

But after that...

[bsnub]

The resistance of Ukraine's armed forces has shattered the illusion of Russian military might. Lieutenant General (Retired) @general_ben
spoke to Forces News about the five key lessons that he has learned from the Ukrainian counter-offensive.

https://twitter.com/ForcesNews/statu...97245146198016

Yet Sabang quotes a couple of dishonored Colonels. Countless American, UK and NATO staff level and above officers have gone on the record stating that Russia is total shit and losing the war.

Yet you have retards like Sabang and his Icebitch sucking putin micropenis. Utterly pathetic.

[sabang]

I think the intelligent reader is quite capable of reading, and seeing for him/herself that is churlish, childish bullshit snubski. The people I have quoted incorporate everything from senior statesman (eg Kissinger), retired Ambassadors, other Diplomats, world renowned academics- and lesser known ones too, retired and serving military officers and analysts, journalists, politicians both serving and retired, and indeed a few bloggers and pro-Russian sources too. As any numpty can see for themself, by simply reading.

So why make such a fool of yourself- are your widdle feelings all hurty? Diddums.

This 'dishonoured Colonel" is in fact General Mark Milley, Chairman of the Joint US Chiefs of Staff. As I understand it, he is the most senior military officer in the USA:-


Milley urges Ukraine to negotiate with Russia, saying chances of total military victory 'unlikely'


Milley urges Ukraine to negotiate with Russia, saying chances of total military victory '''unlikely''' | Fox News


So what do you have to say about that, corporal chickenhawk?

[HermantheGerman]

So what do you have to say about that, corporal chickenhawk?

That Snub is right and you are wrong again.

"You want to negotiate from a position of strength. Russia right now is on its back," Milley told reporters following the 7th session of the Ukraine Contact Group. "The probability of Russia achieving its strategic objectives of conquering Ukraine…is close to zero."

Yes, you most certainly beat Skidmark of being TD idiot.

[HermantheGerman]

While Putin is working in his office planning the Ukraine war, the ghost of Stalin suddenly appears. Putin takes the opportunity to seek advice: “Stalin, what happened? why are things not working out for us?”
Stalin gives him advice: “Send 5 million Russians to their death at war, and paint the Kremlin blue.”
“Why blue?” asks Vladimir Putin.
“… I knew you wouldn’t have a problem with the first part,” chuckles the old Stalin.

[sabang]

To remove any doubt, or be accused of selective quotation, here is the article in full, including the transcript of what General Milley actually said-




Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff Mark Milley urged Kyiv and Moscow to find a "political solution" as the winter months loom, warning that the chances of a total military victory was "unlikely."

"You want to negotiate from a position of strength. Russia right now is on its back," Milley told reporters following the 7th session of the Ukraine Contact Group. "The probability of Russia achieving its strategic objectives of conquering Ukraine…is close to zero."

But he also warned that Russia’s ability to pull more men into its ranks despite substantial losses and the fact that it still occupies roughly 20 percent of Ukraine meant the war would not end any time soon.


"Now Ukraine has had great success," he continued referring to recent gains in Kharkiv and Kherson. "But Kherson and Kharkiv are relatively small.

"So in terms of probability, the probability of a Ukrainian military victory, defined as kicking the Russians out of all of Ukraine, to include what they claim is Crimea…is not high, militarily," he added.

Milley made headlines last week when he suggested peace talks could begin between Kyiv and Moscow after Ukraine’s armed forces saw another major success when Russian withdrew from Kherson.

Milley and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin doubled down on these suggestions after the general faced some criticism for allegedly muddling Washington’s position when it comes to U.S. support for Ukraine.


"Now Ukraine has had great success," he continued referring to recent gains in Kharkiv and Kherson. "But Kherson and Kharkiv are relatively small.

"So in terms of probability, the probability of a Ukrainian military victory, defined as kicking the Russians out of all of Ukraine, to include what they claim is Crimea…is not high, militarily," he added.

Milley made headlines last week when he suggested peace talks could begin between Kyiv and Moscow after Ukraine’s armed forces saw another major success when Russian withdrew from Kherson.

Milley and Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin doubled down on these suggestions after the general faced some criticism for allegedly muddling Washington’s position when it comes to U.S. support for Ukraine.


Both security officials pointed out that while there may be some tactical advantages to fighting once the ground has frozen over, winter weather in war typically has a slowing effect.

"President Biden and President Zelenskyy himself has said that at the end of the day it will be a political solution," Milley said. "If there's a slowdown in the actual tactical fighting, if that happens, then that may become a window possibly, it may not, for a political solution, or at least the beginnings of talks to initiate a political solution."

Milley said that Russia occupies an area of roughly 560 miles in length and 50 miles wide of Ukrainian territory.


Both security officials pointed out that while there may be some tactical advantages to fighting once the ground has frozen over, winter weather in war typically has a slowing effect.

"President Biden and President Zelenskyy himself has said that at the end of the day it will be a political solution," Milley said. "If there's a slowdown in the actual tactical fighting, if that happens, then that may become a window possibly, it may not, for a political solution, or at least the beginnings of talks to initiate a political solution."

Milley said that Russia occupies an area of roughly 560 miles in length and 50 miles wide of Ukrainian territory.


"It's not a small piece of ground," he added. "Kicking the Russians physically out of Ukraine is a very difficult task."

Zelenskyy has said he will not engage in peace talks with Russia until they withdraw all forces from Ukraine, including Crimea and pay for the war crimes they have committed.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mil...ctory-unlikely

There, that wasn't so hard, was it? And if the likes of you and snubski want to say you are right, and the General and Defence Secretary he reports to are wrong- go ahead!! We all like a good laugh.


It rather looks like the adults in the room are beginning to take over, and you kiddies will increasingly feel relegated to the back seat- but what you don't realise is that you always were. You were only ever being used as useful idiots.

[HermantheGerman]

I think the intelligent reader is quite capable of reading, and seeing for him/herself that is churlish, childish bullshit snubski. The people I have quoted incorporate everything from ??........

For our intelligent readers. Guess who said this?

.....we are not going to fight against anyone. We are going to create conditions so that nobody wants to fight against us,” said in an interview with the state-run Tass news agency, a part of which was released Monday.

...Russia has created “offensive strike systems the world has never seen.

..... said that in the past 20 years the share of modern equipment in the Russian military has grown from 6% to 70%.


......but we fell threatened from our Ukraine brothers and sisters.


Looks like this person is full of shit just like you. Think about it

[sabang]

What's the point debating a dolt? Time and events will provide you with enough disappointment.

[sabang]

The Ukrainian President called for the Russian Orthodox Church to be outlawed after Kiev’s intelligence agency conducted several raids on Orthodox cathedrals

by Kyle Anzalone Posted onDecember 2, 2022CategoriesNews

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announced he is seeking to ban all religions with ties to Russia. He claims the move is needed to "guarantee spiritual independence to Ukraine."


This law will target millions of Ukrainians who identify as Russian Orthodox.


During his nightly address on Thursday, Zelensky announced he was introducing legislation that would eliminate religious organizations affiliated with Russia from operating in Ukraine. He said this will make "it impossible for religious organizations affiliated with centers of influence in the Russian Federation to operate in Ukraine."


The Ukrainian leader said it was necessary to purge the church to preserve the country’s spiritual independence. Adding, "We will never allow anyone to build an empire inside the Ukrainian soul." Zelensky denounced Ukrainians continuing to attend the parishes as failing to overcome "the temptation of evil."


He claimed a series of recent raids by Kiev’s intelligence found orthodox churches which remain connected with the Moscow Patriarchate have been acting as operatives for the Kremlin. In his address, Zelensky instructed his security forces to further target Russian Orthodox parishes.


Around two-thirds of Ukrainians identify as Eastern Orthodox Christians. At one point, the majority of Ukrainians attended parishes that followed the Moscow Patriarchate. Some recent polls say that number has dwindled to under 15%. However, the polling was only conducted in territory that was controlled by Ukrainian forces. Zelensky has vowed to return those regions to Kiev’s authority.


Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, responded by slamming Zelensky’s move as authoritarian. "The current Ukrainian authorities have openly become enemies of Christ and the Orthodox faith," he said.

https://news.antiwar.com/2022/12/02/...ies-to-moscow/

[sabang]

The Ukraine War: Cracks in Unexpected Places

by Ted Snider Posted onDecember 03, 2022

As the war in Ukraine grinds on, cracks are forming in unexpected places. The US is mad at Ukraine, Europe is mad at the US and Europeans are mad at each other.

The cracks are neither wide nor structural. But they are there, and they are unexpected. The first crack in the US relationship with Ukraine formed around frustration and concern over unrelenting demands for arms from Ukraine.

As the war devours weapons and artillery, the hunger for them continues and the demand for more advanced weapons grows. Western nations committed to arming Ukraine are struggling to keep up as their own arsenals become depleted. The New York Times reports that there is a “mad scramble to supply Ukraine with what it needs while also replenishing NATO stockpiles.”

And yet, Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba complained on November 28 that “We also have to face one fact: There are countries in the world who have what Ukraine needs but who are not going to sell it in sufficient quantities for political reasons.” He criticized western nations “who have stuff in stocks but who are not willing to share it.”

Loss of patience over the unending demand was first made public in June when Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky responded to Biden’s news that the US had just authorized $1 billion for more military assistance with complaints about what he was not getting. Biden, reportedly, “lost his temper.” “Raising his voice,” Biden told Zelensky to “show a little more gratitude.”

Two months later, Thomas Friedman reported in The New York Times that “privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on,” adding that “There is deep mistrust between the White House and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine — considerably more than has been reported.”

The crack widened in November when Ukraine stubbornly rejected the results of analysis that showed that the missile that landed in Poland was fired, not by Russia, but by Ukrainian air defense systems firing at Russian missiles, though no one blamed Ukraine. Zelensky provocatively called the missile strike a “Russian attack on collective security in the Euro-Atlantic,” alluding to Article five. He called it “a significant escalation.”

Though Zelensky attempted to arrange phone calls with Biden, the crack was on display when Biden spurned those calls. “This is getting ridiculous,” one NATO country’s diplomat in Kiev told the Financial Times. “The Ukrainians are destroying [our] confidence in them. Nobody is blaming Ukraine and they are openly lying. This is more destructive than the missile.”

When the US finally did talk to Ukraine, it was not Biden, but National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, urging “officials to tread more carefully with how they were speaking about the incident.”

But the US is being as much complained about as complaining. Europe has publicly launched a bitter attack on the US. High ranking European officials are furiously accusing the Biden administration of selfishly profiting from the war at the expense of freezing Europeans. “The fact is, if you look at it soberly, the country that is most profiting from this war is the U.S. because they are selling more gas and at higher prices,” a senior European official charged.

US led sanctions have deprived Europe of the Russian oil they depend on. That has left Europe optionless, save for asking the US for gas. But the US is charging its European customers four times what it is charging Americans. French President Emmanuel Macron called the gouging “not friendly.” Germany’s economy minister has implored the US to start showing “solidarity” by reducing the cost of badly needed gas.

And the crack is real. “America needs to realize,” a senior EU official said, “that public opinion is shifting in many EU countries.” He was referring both to Europe’s role in the war and its relationship with the US. Josep Borrell, High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy for the EU, reportedly amplified the call for the US to respond to the charges, saying “Americans — our friends — take decisions which have an economic impact on us.”

The fight has been noticed in Russia. Former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said on November 28 that “The ‘marriage’ between the US and EU will likely end in ‘an ugly divorce,’ following the obvious ‘economic cheating’” by the US.

Meanwhile, as Europe starves for gas, Russian energy giant Gazprom has announced that it will shut all the Nord Stream gas pipelines and decompress the compressor stations, though they could be restarted at short notice. At the same time, Gazprom announced a huge investment focussed on reorienting its gas distribution away from Europe and toward the east. These are likely not just business decisions but foreign policy ones: Putin has long reserved strategic decisions at Gazprom for himself.

Cracks are also forming not just between Europe and the US but within Europe with the fault line forming mostly along the Polish border.

After the missile fell inside Polish territory, Germany offered to send Poland Eurofighter planes and Patriot air defense missile batteries to protect itself. Initially, Poland said it would accept the offer. But then Poland declared that “it would be best for Poland’s security if Germany handed the equipment to the Ukrainians.” Germany rejected the suggestion both because Patriot air defense missiles, being part of NATO’s integrated air defense, requires NATO consent to be used outside NATO area and because it would necessitate sending German soldiers into Ukraine to operate the system. Poland’s move could draw NATO into the war with Russia. Poland’s strategic move highlighted Germany and NATO’s unwillingness to cross red lines in escalating its aid to Ukraine.

Poland again caused cracks with Europe on November 27 when it stymied the EU’s attempt to set a price cap on Russian oil. In a desire to sanction Russian profits but maintain global supply of oil, the G7 had proposed maintaining the flow of Russian oil but at capped prices. The G7 proposed a cap of $65-$70 per barrel. But Poland, Lithuania and Estonia have been pushing for the drastically lower $30 per barrel.

“There is no deal,” one diplomat said. “The Poles are completely uncompromising on the price. . . . "Clearly there is growing annoyance with the Polish position."
If a price cap cannot be agreed upon, that would apparently trigger a much harsher total ban on Russian oil. No new date for talks has been set.

Small cracks that may be forming in Ukraine have also been made public for the first time. According to reporting by Kiev Post, in a very public falling out between President Zelensky and the mayor of Kiev, Vitali Klitschko, Zelensky accused Klitschko of not doing enough to help the residents of Kiev through the power shortages caused by Russian missile strikes. In his nightly address on November 25, Zelensky said “But I know that, unfortunately, not in all cities the local government has done a good job. In particular, there are many complaints in Kyiv.” He said that the number of emergency shelters being provided “need to be improved, to put it mildly. Please pay attention. Kyiv residents need more protection.” Zelensky went on to accuse Klitschko of not being serious and of lying in his reports. He said no one would forgive him.

Klitschko declined to engage in the argument saying that, instead, he has work to do and that the manipulation “looks, to put it mildly, ugly. Both for Ukrainians and our foreign partners.”

Zelensky may have been attempting to shift the spotlight of blame for the suffering onto the regional government. The Kiev Post reports that inspections conducted the next day revealed that Klitschko had not lied when he said that there were 430 emergency warming shelters in Kiev. They found that only 20% of the 530 emergency shelters were closed.

The pressure of the war seems to be creating cracks within Ukraine, within Europe, between Europe and the US and between the US and Ukraine.

https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Sni...pected-places/

[Takeovers]

The pressure of the war seems to be creating cracks within Ukraine, within Europe, between Europe and the US and between the US and Ukraine.

You wish.

Some differences among friends and allies will not stop the solid support of Ukraine.

[bsnub]

What's the point debating a dolt?

Exactly why most have stopped engaging you at all, as you are a completely propagandized moron.

[bsnub]

The Ukrainian President called for the Russian Orthodox Church to be outlawed after Kiev’s intelligence agency conducted several raids on Orthodox cathedrals

It is hardly a church at all. It is a puppet satellite of the Kremlin.

[bsnub]

In fairness mike, if the russkies are so short of ballistics- why on earth would they be sending dummy missiles (ie no warhead) to deplete Ukrainian aerial defences?

You really are dense, aren't you. They are not dummy missiles, they are KH-55 nuclear-capable cruise missiles that have ballast in place of the nuclear warhead. These are ancient pieces of kit that went out of production way back in 1981. Shameful that someone who spouts so much nonsense on a topic continues to prove so ill-informed on the most basic of issues.

[sabang]

D'ohhh, if they carry no warhead they are dummy missiles. Designed only to deplete aerial defences, incapable of causing any explosion. Must be as rare as hens teeth then.

Go ahead, prove yourself an idiot again. Be my guest-

It is hardly a church at all. It is a puppet satellite of the Kremlin.

The ROC is often said to be the largest of all of the Eastern Orthodox churches in the world. Including all the autocephalous churches under its supervision, its adherents number more than 112 million worldwide—about half of the 200 to 220 million estimated adherents of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Among Christian churches, the Russian Orthodox Church is only second to the Roman Catholic Church in terms of numbers of followers.

Russian Orthodox Church - Wikipedia

Dufus

[Hugh Cow]

Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of the Russian Security Council, responded by slamming Zelensky’s move as authoritarian. "The current Ukrainian authorities have openly become enemies of Christ and the Orthodox faith," he said.

No prizes for who posted this. How could anyone actually post this without breaking down in tears of laughter? This statement is so nonsensical it beggars belief. I'm speechless anyone could possibly be this naive.

[sabang]

Some very selective moderation happening here. Why is my post in response to off-topic, ad hom insults deleted but stuff like this-

He really is a clown.

Yeah but clearly a sad clown.

Left untouched??

[Norton]

No prizes for who posted this. How could anyone actually post this without breaking down in tears of laughter? This statement is so nonsensical it beggars belief. I'm speechless anyone could possibly be this naive.

Plenty more of same at a site called AntiWar.com. After a quick look, should be renamed AntiUsa.com.

News From Antiwar.com - Original and up-to-date news

[sabang]

I could point you to a number of more "out there" websites than antiwar.com norts.


Detailed Report

Bias Rating: RIGHT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Minimal Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY


History


Founded in 1995, Antiwar.com is a libertarian website that describes itself as devoted to “non-interventionism” and opposing imperialism and war. It is a project of the Randolph Bourne Institute. According to their about page: “This site is devoted to the cause of non-interventionism and is read by libertarians, pacifists, leftists, “greens,” and independents alike, as well as many on the Right who agree with our opposition to imperialism.”

The current managing editor is Eric Garris.

Read our profile on the United States government and media.

Funded by / Ownership

Antiwar.com is a nonprofit 501(c) organization and part of the Randolph Bourne Institute. Revenue is derived through advertising and donations.


Analysis / Bias

In review, Antiwar.com reports news related to foreign military intervention, taking the position that the USA should not be engaged in foreign wars. Headlines and articles often do not use loaded language: Russia Takes Over for the US as Buffer Between Turkey, Syria. This straightforward report is properly sourced to the New York Times, The Hill, and Washington Times.

The website also produces editorials that frequently use loaded emotional language to support Libertarian positions such as this: Wake-Up Call On The Syrian Border: Time To End Washington’s Feckless Regime Change Policy and NATO, Too. This Op-Ed does not contain a single hyperlink to an external source. In another article, Washington Is Wrong Once Again – Kurds Join Assad To Defend Syria, republished from the factually Mixed The Ron Paul Institute for Peace & Prosperity, there is negative reporting on the media and establishment politics.

Although the website has a right-leaning bias in reporting, it does feature many writers from across the political spectrum, including conservatives such as Pat Buchanan, libertarians such as Ron Paul, and left-leaning authors such as Noam Chomsky and Juan Cole.

Failed Fact Checks

• “Red Crescent Says No Evidence of Chemical Attack in Syria’s Douma.” – FALSE (retracted)

Overall, we rate Antiwar.com Right-Center biased based on holding non-interventionist Libertarian positions. We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting rather than High due to not always sourcing information and a failed fact check that was appropriately retracted. (D. Van Zandt 8/9/2016) Updated (02/18/2022)


Source: https://www.antiwar.com

Last Updated on February 18, 2022 by Media Bias Fact Check

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/anti-war/

[russellsimpson]

double post

[Switch]

Some very selective moderation happening here. Why is my post in response to off-topic, ad hom insults deleted but stuff like this-


Left untouched??

Probably still laughing at you, quoting Fox News as a source?

Then you proclaim the wonders of the Russian church? More deviation from the topic, or are you now just so desperate that anything will do?

Keep wandering off topic (Pssst, there's a war on) and the mods will be laughing at you again, while you continue to assume that an illegal war is amusing! SERIOUSLY?

[misskit]

Some very selective moderation happening here. Why is my post in response to off-topic, ad hom insults deleted but stuff like this-


Left untouched??

Not real sure what you are on about, but an off topic post of yours was deleted from the World News thread.

[sabang]

Then you proclaim the wonders of the Russian church?

I linked to a Wiki article, showing that Russian Orthodox is the second largest Christian denomination after Catholicism. I can assure you a confirmed atheist like me proclaims the wonders of no church, or religion. I do however uphold peoples Freedom of Faith, as per the US Bill of Rights. Where on earth did you dredge that nonsensical statement from?

And if Fox News isn't good enough for you- GIYF. There are many mainstream media reports about General Milley's comments- as well there might be considering he is the most senior military officer in the USA. So accusations that I am some sort of radical for advocating the same thing have been clearly displayed to be idiotic. Unless of course you think the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is an anti-American radical. Which would make you the radical.

[bsnub]

I could point you to a number of more "out there" websites than antiwar.com norts.

You have a few other shit propaganda sites you roll out of your clown car. Antiwar is a total garbage propaganda site and anyone who buys anything they write is being misled full stop.

You push a completely fake pro Putin narrative that is almost entirely built on lies and falsehoods.

[sabang]

shit propaganda sites

Yawwwn.

Factual Reporting: MOSTLY FACTUAL
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rating: MOSTLY FREE

Although the website has a right-leaning bias in reporting, it does feature many writers from across the political spectrum, including conservatives such as Pat Buchanan, libertarians such as Ron Paul, and left-leaning authors such as Noam Chomsky and Juan Cole.

Are you going to tolerate this sort of ad-hom trash in the News thread Moderators? Because if so, it leaves me no choice but to respond in kind.