Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

How's that?

You went from this...

Does anyone realise that the funding of the Ukraine defence is a waste of money and time?

To this...

There is only 1 way that this war will end and that is for Nato + America + others, including Australia, to go to war with Russia and kill off the beast once and for all.

[bsnub]

Do what the "west" is now doing and in LT's opinion will be an endless unwinable war. I tend to agree especially if a win includes the Ukraine retaking and holding all Russian occupied territory including Crimea.

I couldn't disagree more. The war is winnable for Ukraine, and I think it could be over as soon as next summer. I think once the ground freezes over in another month or so, many opinions will begin to change in this thread. Watch for another thunder run.

[sabang]

Time will tell snubski, but I find you to be exceedingly naive. A military or CIA analyst you are not.

Russian Forces Back To Offensive Operations On Donbass Front LinesSouth Front


Winter has often proven an indispensable ally of Mother Russia.

.... But we Americans do have, given our indispensable contributions to the Ukrainian war effort, the right to tell Kyiv when we believe that the risks of further fighting exceed any potential gain for us; and, if Kyiv is determined to fight on, to give notice that Ukraine will be doing so without any more U.S. munitions.

Great powers should never cede to lesser powers, unconnected to their vital interests, the capacity to drag them into unwanted wars.

The Polish missile incident, and the noisy clamor that arose for retaliation against Russia for hitting a NATO country, exposed the risks inherent in our many treaty commitments, where we are obliged to go to war for scores of nations, most of which are not remotely related to the security or vital interests of the United States.
Putin's 'Winter War' on Ukraine - Antiwar.com Original

[bsnub]

^

More complete crap from your propaganda site. Utter shit as usual.

[bsnub]

The Ukrainian Army Captured Dozens Of The Russian Army’s Old T-62 Tanks—And Is Now Sending Them Back Into Battle


After losing a thousand of its best T-80 and T-72 tanks in Ukraine, the Kremlin early this summer began pulling 50-year-old T-62s out of long-term storage and sending them to the front—especially in the south.

Five months later in September, Ukrainian brigades launched counteroffensives in the east and south. The southern brigades started scooping up old T-62s by the dozen. And now, as was inevitable, those T-62s are beginning to appear on the front line again—on the Ukrainian side.

The first video of an ex-Russian T-62 in distinctive Ukrainian camouflage appeared online last week.

It’s not yet clear where Ukraine has deployed its new-old T-62s or which unit is using them. But it’s a safe bet the other 42 or so newly Ukrainian T-62s lurk nearby. Armies after all tend to organize their tanks in battalions of around three dozen vehicles.

The T-62 isn’t the oldest tank model in the Ukraine theater. That honorific belongs to the 1950s-vintage, but heavily upgraded, M-55S that Slovenia has pledged to Ukraine.

But technologically, the T-62 is at least a generation behind Russia’s main tank, the T-72—and somewhat farther behind Ukraine’s own T-64. That doesn’t make the T-62 useless. It does make it likely Ukrainian forces will assign the T-62s to second-line roles—fortifying garrison towns, for example.

That there are any T-62s on the Ukraine battlefield is testimony to the scale of the mechanized warfare in the country. The Russians went to war with thousands of T-80s and T-72s, and after nine months of fighting has lost at least 1,500 of them, including at least 500 that the Ukrainians have captured.

Ukraine’s own tank corps, 900 T-64s and T-72s strong back in February, also has suffered heavy losses: around 375 total write-offs, of which 130 or so tanks were captured by the Russians.

The difference between Russian and Ukrainian tank attrition is that Ukraine has captured from Russia more modern tanks than it has lost to Russia, while Russia has had to dip into its warehouses and open-air tank parks in order to make good its own losses.

There weren’t enough intact T-80s and T-72s in storage to replace the T-80s and T-72s Russia had lost, but there were lots of T-62s. The Kremlin ordered the 103rd Armored Plant in Chita, in southern Siberia, to recondition 80o T-62s through 2025.

The old tanks began arriving at the front this summer, where they stiffened Russian battalions trying—and ultimately failing—to hold onto Kherson Oblast in southern Ukraine. There’s no evidence the T-62s played any meaningful role in the fighting. There’s ample evidence their four-man crews abandoned the tanks at the first opportunity.

Crews bailing out undamaged tanks says more about the failure of Russian battlefield leadership than it says about the tanks themselves. The well-led Ukrainians arguably are in a better position to use the T-62s than the Russians ever were.

That said, there is a potential problem with Ukraine’s new T-62 force. All other Ukrainian tanks beside the M-55Ss fire 125-millimeter shells. The M-55S has a 105-millimeter main gun firing NATO-standard rounds that are in widespread use in Ukraine. The T-62’s own main gun is 115 millimeters in diameter.

The Ukrainian army previously operated ex-Soviet T-62s back in the 1990s, but it’s unclear whether the service still has big stocks of 115-millimeter ammunition—or convenient sources for replenishing those stocks.

The potential ammo shortage, more than the sophistication—or lack thereof—of the T-62s could be the main reason the Ukrainian army deploys its ex-Russian T-62s, but doesn’t deploy them anywhere they might see intensive fighting.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=41ec599c18d2

[sabang]

^^ Time will tell who is full of shit. No need to act like a whiney biatch.

[misskit]

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, November 29
Nov 29, 2022 - Press ISW


Russian forces made marginal gains around Bakhmut on November 29, but Russian forces remain unlikely to have advanced at the tempo that Russian sources claimed. Geolocated footage shows that Russian forces made marginal advances southeast of Bakhmut but ISW remains unable to confirm most other claimed gains around Bakhmut made since November 27. Some Russian milbloggers made unsubstantiated claims that Russian forces broke through the Ukrainian defensive line south of Bakhmut along the T0513 highway to advance towards Chasiv Yar, which would cut one of two remaining main Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Bakhmut, but such claims are likely part of a continuing Russian information operation and are premature, as ISW has previously assessed. ISW continues to assess that the degraded Russian forces around Bakhmut are unlikely to place Bakhmut under threat of imminent encirclement rapidly.

Institute for the Study of War

[pickel]

A military or CIA analyst you are not.

Well, when the military and CIA analysts were saying Putin was going to invade, I recall you being a bit naive.

[misskit]

Putin’s Own Cronies Expose Crimea Chaos in Messy PR Meltdown

Ukrainian officials have been warning for months that—in addition to kicking Russia out of territories seized this year—they also intend to take back territories stolen before the war, including Crimea, the peninsula illegally annexed by Russian President Vladimir Putin in 2014.


And though Ukraine’s messaging on the matter is simple—that Ukrainian victory is about taking back Crimea, too—Russia’s response has been garbled in recent days. While some are urging Moscow to take the threat of a Ukrainian Crimea campaign seriously, others are working to downplay it.


The so-called head of the committee of the Crimean parliament on public diplomacy and interethnic relations, Yuri Gempel, indicated Wednesday that Ukraine’s statements about taking back Crimea are hogwash.


“Such statements are a fountain of crazy and sick fantasies. It seems that Zelensky's team makes all statements on the issue of Crimea in a besotted state,” Gempel said, according to RIA Novosti. “The essence of their statements has nothing to do with reality.”


The statements are nothing but a political effort to rally Ukrainians behind the cause, said Alexei Chepa, the first deputy head of the State Duma Committee on International Affairs.

“These are ordinary political statements for their voters. Everyone understands that there is nothing behind them,” Chepa said.


But then, only hours later, Russia’s Foreign Ministry confirmed that the threat of Ukraine going after Crimea is “real.”


“As the leadership of Russia has repeatedly said, these threats will be eliminated,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said, citing revelations contained in documents Russian forces allegedly found during the war. They “convincingly indicate that the Kyiv regime was seriously preparing for a large-scale offensive,” albeit in 2022.


The conflicting statements are the latest to emerge from the Russia after weeks of defeats have unsettled the Kremlin’s narrative that Moscow is winning in the war in Ukraine. After losing territory in the northeast of Ukraine, and then retreating from the city of Kherson, Russian authorities have been hinting that they believe Ukrainian forces may be zeroing in on Crimea next.


The Ukrainian official in charge of Crimea, Tamila Tasheva, told The Daily Beast earlier this month in an exclusive interview that, while intelligence suggests that Ukraine could take back Crimea around the spring or summer of next year, she thinks it may happen sooner.

Now that Kherson is liberated, Russian authorities are aware of Ukraine’s posturing for a Crimea campaign. Russia has been working to mobilize men in Crimea this month, according to a brief from the the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Other Russian officials have been working to assure the population in Crimea that everything is going to be fine, and that Russia is working to bolster its defenses. Some civilians have reportedly begun fleeing Crimea for fear of a counter move from Ukraine.


If Ukraine is able to boot Russia from Crimea, it would represent a crushing blow to Putin’s takeover plans for Ukraine. Much of Putin’s political legitimacy derives from the illegal annexation of the peninsula in 2014, after which his popularity surged. Losing Crimea would chip away at his political foundations, some experts say.


Refat Chubarov, a Crimean Tatar leader, told Ukrainian Radio NV it would cause the Kremlin to crumble.


“This Ukrainian territory is extremely important for Putin. This is the question of his life, and not only political," Chubarov said, according to Newsweek. “Therefore, it is clear that Russia, especially at the stage of inevitable defeat, will stimulate all its agents and all its forces in order to keep Crimea for itself.”

Putin’s Own Cronies Expose Crimea Chaos in Messy PR Meltdown

[Loy Toy]

It's all very well but when the military aid dries up, which is report ably in the near future, what are the Ukrainian's going to fight with.

If this plug is pulled, which I believe Putin is waiting for, Ukraine will be very vulnerable.

So many lives lost also which is very upsetting.

[sabang]

The US cares nowt for Ukrainian lives.

[pickel]

It's all very well but when the military aid dries up, which is report ably in the near future, what are the Ukrainian's going to fight with.

Not going to happen anytime soon, and it's lend-lease. Besides, the Ukrainians will fight with whatever they have. Not sure why that is hard to understand for some people.

The US cares nowt for Ukrainian lives.

How much does Putin care about them? How much do you? Your crocodile tears are pathetic.

[sabang]

I think both Russia and I care more about Ukrainian lives than the Biden administration, and the Neo-cons it appears to report to.

[cyrille]

I think both Russia and I care more about Ukrainian lives than the Biden administration, and the Neo-cons it appears to report to.

You really have completely lost it, haven't you.

[pickel]

I think both Russia and I care more about Ukrainian lives than the Biden administration, and the Neo-cons it appears to report to.

Holy fuck. Put that one in the famous quotes thread. Along with "Russia won't invade", "Finland won't join NATO," and "Canada should".

It really is amusing watching you swirl to the bottom of the toilet of insanity. Swoosh!

[sabang]

It is going to be really interesting to see your various reactions when it finally sinks in that Ukraine is not winning this war.
The real tragedy is, it could have been so easily avoided. Personally, I think Finland should not have joined Nato- but it matters nowt that it did.
When is Canada gonna join Nato?

[pickel]

The real tragedy is, it could have been so easily avoided

Yes, if Putin didn't invade.

When is Canada gonna join Nato?

Yawn. Canada does need to expand its military though. Unlike Russia, I can criticize my leader for that. But who do you think trained the Ukrainian soldiers currently forcing Russia into retreat after retreat? Or, "goodwill gestures" as you prefer to call them.

[bsnub]

It's all very well but when the military aid dries up

It won't dry up. The US is committed, and they are the only ones that matter. The EU will fall in line behind them.

If this plug is pulled, which I believe Putin is waiting for, Ukraine will be very vulnerable.

Not something even worth worrying about because it will not happen.

I think both Russia and I care more about Ukrainian lives than the Biden administration

You are a disgusting cretin who has been cheerleading putin from the very beginning.

You really have completely lost it, haven't you.

He has been a full on loon for some time now.

It is going to be really interesting to see your various reactions when it finally sinks in that Ukraine is not winning this war.

You are a laughable moron. Just wait until the ground freezes over. Putin is having his ass handed to him on a plate.

[Loy Toy]

Tell me Snubs, what is the feeling amongst the American community regarding all these billions of dollars being thrown at this war that their government has not commited their military too?

Those taxpayers who mostly are experiencing pain and hardship after the Covid War. These taxpayers do not understand global politics. All they understand is their daily trials and tribulations making ends meet.

Thanks in advance for your response.

[misskit]

Most Americans support helping Ukraine. I think I saw a poll that was 75% in support last month.

[misskit]

I also don’t think American taxpayers are suffering as much as you think. The whining taxpayers are not the less-well-to-do.

[bsnub]

Tell me Snubs, what is the feeling amongst the American community regarding all these billions of dollars being thrown at this war that their government has not commited their military too?

I do not know anyone personally who does not support Ukraine. Most Americans are very proud of liberty and freedom, we fought our war over it, and it is always there in the background.

Ukraine is in a fight for its own freedom and liberty, most Americans understand this. It is the fight of their lives as they do not want to live under the yoke of an evil dictator, they want to be free. Americans understand this, and we will support Ukraine until the end.

I also don’t think American taxpayers are suffering as much as you think. The whining taxpayers are not the less-well-to-do.

Well said! The ones who scream the loudest about their taxes are the ones with the most money, usually.

[Loy Toy]

^ Thanks for response.

But you do also appreciate there is a time frame where they want to see something positive happening.

It is questionable whether their support will be so patriotic when another load of cash is dispersed with no real positive result especially with inflation being a growing problem with a possible global recession on the cards.

The biggest problem I see America having is the continued support from the European Union. A bunch of fence sitters who are also suffering day in day out and a split in support is inevitable.

[pickel]

^
I think you should look into what lend-lease means.

[Seekingasylum]

Tell me Snubs, what is the feeling amongst the American community regarding all these billions of dollars being thrown at this war that their government has not commited their military too?

Those taxpayers who mostly are experiencing pain and hardship after the Covid War. These taxpayers do not understand global politics. All they understand is their daily trials and tribulations making ends meet.

Thanks in advance for your response.

You silly pollock, the support for Ukraine boosts GDP, yields a huge commercial dividend, increases employment and raises revenues for both government and corporations.

But, in the end, this is not a fiscal issue, it is about crushing Russian expansionism that threatens Europe, the heartland of global democracy and decent government.

Paying more tax is a nugatory matter and of no consequence.