Ukraine war mega thread

[helge]

This is a straight out war for power and influence in the region by Putin in which he has seriously miscalculated. Even so that does not excuse the war crimes.

Vietnam was a mistake.

Enough said

[bsnub]

Enough said

Is that a passive/aggressive whataboutism? Why is it that you useful idiots post such utter shit all the time?

[hallelujah]

Is that a passive/aggressive whataboutism? Why is it that you useful idiots post such utter shit all the time?

Helge is such the contrarian that he tries a bit too hard at times and it doesn't seem to me that we're always getting his real opinion.

I honestly don't think he genuinely believes some of the things he posts.

[bsnub]

Helge is such the contrarian that he tries a bit too hard at times and it doesn't seem to me that we're always getting his real opinion.

Oh no, he is a Putin knob gobbler for sure.

I honestly don't think he genuinely believes some of the things he posts.

You give him too much credit, mate. He is on Sabangs level of brainwashed.

[Troy]

Oh no, he is a Putin knob gobbler for sure.

I wouldn't have thought so, more like someone who is thinking for himself rather that what he is told...

[hallelujah]

I wouldn't have thought so, more like someone who is thinking for himself rather that what he is told...

Yeah, totally. He does push the boundaries a bit too much at times though in his quest to look at every angle.

[bsnub]

I wouldn't have thought so, more like someone who is thinking for himself rather that what he is told...

You must have missed some of his posts.

[helge]

Ok
I'll try again

This is a straight out war for power and influence in the region by Putin in which he has seriously miscalculated. Even so that does not excuse the war crimes.

That can certainly be argued

Isn't hindsight a beautiful thing? Vietnam was a mistake.

And what is this then, but a whitewash ? A mistake ?

The worst atrocities commited, matched only by Pol Pot, in the last 60 years.

2 mill civilians killed

1.5 viet soldiers killed

North viet cities and infrastructure smashed.

Executions and torture chambers en masse.

Tiger cages where you could give the prisoners a nice sprinkle of chalk once a day

Huge areas of southern Vietnam sprayed with dioxin; yes they still get disabled babies in Vietnam.


Do you want more ?

A mistake ?

Or were they just "brown people" ?

Putin have to up his ugly game quite a bit, to catch up to what the americans did/condoned and paid for, in Vietnam.

[hallelujah]

Do you think it has to be one or the other, helge?

All posters on here are critical of their own western governments and recognise we aren't perfect, but we have the right to express that feeling and ask for better behaviour, standards and, ultimately, - change.

Do the people of Russia, China etc have that right? Do the likes of Sabang, Backspin and OhOh ever offer criticism of the dictatorships they espouse?

[helge]

^

I commented on Hugh Cow's "mistake" comment.

I didn't bring it up


I then commented on posts directed at me; nothing more or less.


( don't worry; it'll be deleted anyway, always does )

[hallelujah]

Let me ask you another question, mate.

Where would you prefer to live? Ensconced in Copenhagen with your (no doubt lovely) wife or in Putin's Russia?

[helge]

Copenhagen ????????

I'll take Russia then

[hallelujah]

Copenhagen ????????

I'll take Russia then

That will be taken by the forum's brainwashed as an endorsement of Russia.

So, come on. Denmark, with all its western "flaws", or Russia?

A one word answer is all that's necessary.

[helge]

Do you really have to ask ?

Denmark

But I wouldn't move to Luxembourg either, so ......

Happy ?

[hallelujah]

Denmark

You see, snubs?

Do you really have to ask ?

It's just helge being helge but occasionally going too far. I see his point too: not everything you see on CNN is correct either.

Basically then, as I called many months ago, hal knows.

[OhOh]

Do the likes of Sabang, Backspin and OhOh ever offer criticism of the dictatorships they espouse?

Russia and China have elections for their leadership. If you prefer your own country's variation, be happy.

[HermantheGerman]

Do you want more ?

-No, we have discussed here on TD plenty of times and we will surely do it again because we are free. Your buddy Putler on the other hand wants to sweep Stalins genocide under the rug.

A mistake ?

-Stupid question

Or were they just "brown people" ?

-Another stupid question


Tell us a bit about Denmark. I think we can be thankful that its small country and only has 5,8 million "Helge the Horribles" running arround.

List of wars involving Denmark - Wikipedia



Ohh, do us a favour and don't start with Nazi Germany. You did that already
I hate reruns.

[hallelujah]

Russia and China have elections for their leadership. If you prefer your own country's variation, be happy.

QED.

I'm adding extra characters just because of TD rules, but thanks for proving my point, OhDoh, you perennial retard.

[OhOh]

Russia is on a Roll

Julian Macfarlane


Nov 2

"The Empire can’t do anything right recently—NATO, MI6, the CIA, and of course, their Nazi gang in Kiev could turn gold to shit just by looking at it. One way or another, they are making things easier for the Russians to achieve their various goals— not just in the Ukraine—but at home rebuilding Russia as a nation— and abroad establishing a new multipolar world order, a kind of international democracy governed by law and reason.

Ukraine is just a linchpin— albeit an important one— keeping in mind that its Nazis are proxies for the West and everything they do is indicative of imperial decay. The difference between Ukrainian Nazis and Westerners is not so much ideology but really just the tattoos.

Western Ukraine’s mistakes amount to uicidal “self-demilitarization” and makes things so much easier for the Russians.

The Empire can’t do anything right recently—NATO, MI6, the CIA, and of course, their Nazi gang in Kiev could turn gold to shit just by looking at it.
One way or another, they are making things easier for the Russians to achieve their various goals— not just in the Ukraine—but at home rebuilding Russia as a nation— and abroad establishing a new multipolar world order, a kind of international democracy governed by law and reason.

Ukraine is just a linchpin— albeit an important one— keeping in mind that its Nazis are proxies for the West and everything they do is indicative of imperial decay. The difference between Ukrainian Nazis and Westerners is not so much ideology but really just the tattoos.
Western Ukraine’s mistakes amount to uicidal “self-demilitarization” and makes things so much easier for the Russians.

Continues at:

Russia is on a Roll - by Julian Macfarlane - News ForensicsHis latest:

Russia Rollin' Rollin': The Update

Julian Macfarlane

11 hr ago

My last article, Russia is On a Roll, needs an update. Things have changed. Are changing — fast.

Rollin’, rollin’. You know the song.

"How does this work?

War as a street fight
"In street fights, he who hits first usually wins.
If you are a rational person, you don’t want to start a fight and should always avoid one, if you can.

But if you really have to fight, the trick is not to get hit in those crucial first few seconds. You have to be situationally aware. Does your assailant have a knife? Does he have friends? Where are you? Is there anything to use as a weapon?

Even an accomplished martial artist can be done in by a sucker punch— as a very, very drunk Jean Claude Van Damme found out to his regret when knocked down by a club bouncer! Moral: don’t get drunk. Don’t trashtalk.

Putin does neither. He tried to avoid a fight—to de-escalate — with Ukraine and NATO through negotiation. At the same time, he assessed the situation carefully. But the West took that carefulness as weakness and began preparing to hit the DPR hard, aiming at ethnic erasure.

Russia struck before the UAF could. Then pulled back, to evaluate things.

Situational Awareness

Understanding a situation holistically is the key to success in such situations and while Russia's progress has been slow — it is a winning strategy..

Strategist John Boyd always emphasized the importance of re-orienting yourself after defeating an attack to prevent another. That’s why the OODA (Orient-Observe-Decide-Act) Loop is…a Loop!

When you do something. You have to see if what has changed. It’s a quantum situation. Just observing something changes it.

If your opponent attacks again, you must use their position relative to you, probabilites and use their momentum against them.

As I have said, it’s a mistake to fight when drunk— on anything, in the case of the US and NATO — that overriding, delusionary sense of superiority—which has hurt the Americans in one war after another.

It is also a mistake to over-react as in “shock & awe.

In a street fight, you can get into a lot of trouble if you kill or injure your opponent.In war, you cannot destroy or disrupt a culture without consequences.

Putin knows all this. He does both Judo and Combat Sambo. He has taught both. No one knows Putin’s mind. But certainly his approach to the conflict with US and NATO— which has led to what amounts to world war— seems very much like a conflict between a gang of street bullies and a martial artist.

Despite being outnumbered at the beginning of his “SMO”, his initial strike at the beginning aimed at disarming rather than fatally wounding Western Ukraine. It was a strategic and measured.

And successful. It’s what a martial artist would do.

But then the NeoNazi’s Gang — which Putin had seen in the crowd watching— got involved,. Where possible Gang Leaders get others to do their dirty work.

The US and NATO armed their Kiev thugs. Attacks followed. All unsuccessful. Putin was prepared for a new set of challenges.

Like a good martial artist, Putin used used the Empire’s attacks against them. He did not fight the way they would —or try to emulate their tactics.

“The best fighter is not a Boxer, Karate or Judo man. The best fighter is someone who can adapt on any style. He kicks too good for a Boxer, throws too good for a Karate man, and punches too good for a Judo man.
--Bruce Lee

How to Defeat the NATO Gang?

Putin needed the UAF to keep on attacking—and a slow war —to win the wider war aginst the gang and establish international credibility, keeping in mind that the “West” is in global terms a minority. .

Here’s a real life example.
I live in Tokyo. A long time ago, a good friend of mine who was studying Aikido was attacked by a drunk on the train. He did not engage—stepping out of the way so the man hit the side of the car —hard. My friend and the guy, who had blood streaming from his face, got off at the next station where both were arrested by the police.

“Did you hit him”, the police asked my friend. “No”, said my friend. “I used Aikido. I just got out of the way”.

“The law says the one who is injured is at fault” said the policeman. “Next time, let him hit you first. Then you can hurt him”.

My friend got off with a warning. But he understood the point.

Sevastopol

The most recent Ukrainian attack– the MI6/ Ukrainian attack on Sevastopol —did no real damage – but the Ukrainians claimed they had sunk a frigate. They hadn’t. The Russians said the attack had been defeated-- but not too loudly.

Like my friend should have done, they let the world perceive them as having been “hit”.

There was not blood — just UAF/ MSM claims of blood. That allowed the RF leverage.

"The highest technique is to have no technique. My technique is a result of your technique; my movement is a result of your movement." ~ Bruce Lee

First, Putin withdrew from the Grain Deal which he had entered into with his always-ally-of-the-moment Erdogan— which was simply not working out since the Empire was not observing its terms.

The grain was supposed to go to poor countries but less than 4% was going where it was most needed. Instead it was going to the Empire’s vassal states, mostly in Europe and also to Turkey.

US sanctions made it difficult for Russian ships to carry grain by denying them insurance.
And the Ukraine and the West were clearlyl using civilian vessels to smuggle in weapons.

In addition to cancelling the Grain Deal, Putin responded by

a.) ramping up attacks on Ukraine’s power grid

b.) wiping out the MI6 base in Ochakiv (the MTR base set up by the British)

c.) floating the possibility of mining the harbors of Odessa or striking terminal facilities.

The last one c) was a feint —helped along the Ukrainian propaganda which accused Russia of attacking grain shipments in Ochakiv, which used to be a naval base when the Ukraine still had a navy and where the UK was trying to establish a military capability that could threaten Sebastopol.

In fact, the Russians hit two tugboats while wiping out the UAF/ MI6 special operations site..
Ochakiv is nowhere near the grain corridor.
Straight lines and circles

Propaganda is a loudspeaker for a lynch mob. It has litle content but it promotes rumors. In this case, the MSM stories drove Internet chatter that the Russians would mine Odessa’s harbor, sinking cargo ships in the Black Sea, and reduce the Odessa terminal facilities to black smoking ruins. Along with giving Viagra to its sailors, as well as its soldiers.

Turkey and Ukriane immediately suspended grain shipments.

Western boxers tend to move in straight lines, except maybe for Mohammed Ali. Judo and Sambo practitioner move in circles.

Putin circled back — he withdrew his withdrawal –sorta.

"Using no way as a way, having no limitation as limitation." ~ Bruce Lee

“Sorta” means not limiting yourself to one way of doing things. You can circle back but to a different point with different possibilities.
Therefore, while Bruce Lee’s comment might sound esoterically “zen” it makes sense.
Western military doctrine emphasizes fixed strategies, in the case of the US, “shock & awe”, which somehow never quite succeeds in the long term.

Adaptability

Bruce Lee emphasized adaptability. If you do not limit yourself to a single “way”, then the only limitation is choice, which depends on an intelligent understanding of the conflict and positioning..

Putin said that he would return to the Grain Deal if – and only if – the terms of the deal were actually observed.

Of course, he knows that the West is Agreement-Incapable, so the deal won’t be fully implemented no matter what. Still, the compromise is useful

On the one hand, it allows him to take the High Road in the eyes of the world.
In addition, further non-compliance, likely as a result of US connivance— will open up all sorts of opportunities for asymmetric countermesures

Finally, it puts pressure on Turkey— already at odds with US over Greece and other matters such as the US-organized attempted coup against Erdogan.

Naturally, this compromise will be seen as weakness in the Western Media.
Putin doesn’t care about that.
He cares a lot more about the Global South and BRICS, where his principles will win friends and support – and most important of all, trust. To the extent that the US and EU are “agreement-incapable”, others will turn to Russia and China, who have a record of keeping their promises. It is pretty simple.. And that minimalism is the beauty of it.

"One rule is to not use complicated techniques unless they are necessary to achieve your goal. First, use simple movements, and if they don't work, then introduce the more complex ones." ~ Bruce Lee.
How do we know that Putin’s strategy is effective?

Last gasp strategies

There are signs.

Larry Johnson has written an article about the Americans sending military teams to monitor weapons shipments. This backed up by excellent analysis at Moon of Alabama. The US/NATO soldiers are going to be in harm’s way of course – which might cover up increased losses in the upcoming Russian offensive.

Some estimates of NATO losses in Ukraine are as high as 50,000. That’s probably a little high since NATO “volunteers” are used to man HIMARS systems, howitzers and the like— and are not on the front line, which is reserved for Ukrainian conscripts who barely know one end of a gun from the other. When NATO guys are killed their bodies are dumped in a hole without identifying tags.

It is very likely that the British lost men in the attack on their base in Ochakiv. They’re not saying. But it will be harder to hide those losses than the Skripals.

And, if the Russians launch full-scale offensives in late November with four times their current force, there are going to be a lot more NATO losses for sure.
Bad PR – and also (technically) casus belli sufficient to allow the Russians to attack Polish bases without necessarily triggering Article 5.

NATO and US don’t have the capability for a full scale conflict - and they know it. So why would they want their soldiers in body bags when they have no real intention of fighting a war they could not win?

Once again, this conflict is driven by optics. People are getting tired of it. They are tired of seeing billions going to support political hubris when they need jobs, medical care, education and the like. People like Biden think dead soldiers fan support for his party.

But how to explain to your voters why you aren’t going to fight the Russkies in Ukraine for killing your guys?

Over at MoA, b. notes that Biden has suddenly started talking about the Russians using nukes – again – not to mention using biological and chemical weapons— which only the Americans have since the Russians destroyed all of theirs.

Oh, nuclear war. Everybody dies. Escalate, go to the brink…then back off and offer to talk.

Sounds like a plan. But not a very good one.
Because the Russians are rollin’, rollin’. in month or so, the Russians will be mounting offensives over frozen ground in Eastern Ukraine and other areas. Western Ukraine will be freezing. Germany and Poland will be freezing too — with conditions worsened by the G7’s price cap on oil. Another 4 million refugees from Western Ukriane will be arriving across the border.

And — very likely — the Republicans will be in power in the House.

The Americans are lost in fantasy, as usual
Putin thinks pragmatically. Biden does not know how to think.

"Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it." ~ Bruce Lee

Russians don’t want war. Just victory. And you don’t always need war to get that."

https://julianmacfarlane.substack.co...lin-the-update

[hallelujah]

Russia is on a Roll

Julian Macfarlane


Nov 2

"The Empire can’t do anything right recently—NATO, MI6, the CIA, and of course, their Nazi gang in Kiev could turn gold to shit just by looking at it. One way or another, they are making things easier for the Russians to achieve their various goals— not just in the Ukraine—but at home rebuilding Russia as a nation— and abroad establishing a new multipolar world order, a kind of international democracy governed by law and reason.

[helge]

Should I bite ?

Hmm

-No, we have discussed here on TD plenty of times and we will surely do it again because we are free.

And yet I see again and again cries for having certain posters gagged/jailed/ 'dog housed'.

-Stupid question

Context

-Another stupid question

Again context

Tell us a bit about Denmark. I think we can be thankful that its small country and only has 5,8 million "Helge the Horribles" running arround.

List of wars involving Denmark - Wikipedia

Yawn

Ohh, do us a favour and don't start with Nazi Germany. You did that already

I won't

Wasn't mentioned in post that I reacted to

I hate reruns.

Good

You germans are slow learners, but it seems that you got it now

[helge]

Your buddy Putler on the other hand wants to sweep Stalins genocide under the rug.

Forgot this one

Haven't heard about that.

Can't see why he would do that and what he could possibly gain.

But do give me some link.

Sounds weird

[OhOh]

Republican Opposition to Helping Ukraine Grows, WSJ Poll Finds

Nov 3, 2022

Parties are split over whether to provide Kyiv more aid as it faces prolonged war with Russia

"WASHINGTON—The majority of Americans support continuing aid to Ukraine in what will likely be a prolonged war with Russia, but support is becoming a partisan issue as Republican opposition grows to helping the country, according to a new Wall Street Journal poll.

Military and financial aid to Ukraine has emerged as one of many political flashpoints days before a midterm election in which control of the Congress is at stake. The continuing flow of aid is falling out of favor with some Republicans in the House of Representatives, who say they struggle to justify the overseas spending amid domestic concerns, including high inflation and economic uncertainty.

Some 30% of respondents overall said in the new survey they believe the administration is doing too much to help Ukraine, up from 6% in a March Journal poll. The change was driven by a big shift among GOP voters: 48% of Republicans now say the U.S. is doing too much, up from 6% in the previous survey.

The portion of GOP voters who said the U.S. isn’t doing enough to help Ukraine fell to 17%, a steep drop from 61% in March."

Continues at:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/republi...ds-11667467802

The NaGastan doubts are appearing.


U.S. Plan to Counter Illicit Diversion of Certain Advanced Conventional Weapons in Eastern Europe

Fact Sheet

Bureau of Political-Military Affairs

October 27, 2022

Summary:

"The United States’ priority is to ensure that Ukraine has the weapons it needs to defend its territory against Russia’s further invasion. Helping to ensure Ukraine maintains control of its territory is a primary means to limit potential illicit diversion of weapons by Russia’s forces, Russia’s proxies, and non-state actors. Since Russia’s further aggression in February 2022, the United States has taken concrete steps to strengthen its abilities and those of its partners to counter threats posed by potential diversion of weapons in Eastern Europe.

The Ukrainian government has committed to appropriately safeguard and account for transferred U.S.-origin defense equipment, although we recognize that the chaotic nature of combat can make this difficult.

Properly securing weapons, particularly sensitive and advanced conventional weapons including Man-portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS) and Anti-Tank/All-purpose Tactical Guided Missiles (ATGMs), is essential to post-conflict recovery and regional security.

The United States will continue to assist the government of Ukraine with accounting for and securing weapons, as security conditions permit. We also will continue to assist the Government of Ukraine with clearing Explosive Remnants of War (ERW) as security conditions permit, as those activities enable on-the-ground accounting for and securing of weapons, as well as enabling a safer return for Ukrainians to their homes.

Background:

Thus far, intense internal demand for use on the battlefield by Ukrainian military and security forces within Ukraine is assessed to be impeding black-market proliferation of small arms and guided infantry weapons such as MANPADS and ATGMs from Ukraine. Pro-Russian forces’ capture of Ukrainian weapons – including donated materiel – has been the main vector of diversion so far and could result in onward transfers. Russia probably will also use these weapons to develop countermeasures, propaganda, or to conduct false-flag operations.

Wars can provide opportunities for weapons to fall into private hands via theft or illicit sales, sometimes creating black markets for arms that endure for decades. A variety of criminal and non-state actors may attempt to acquire weapons from sources in Ukraine during or following the conflict, as occurred after the Balkans Wars in the 1990s.

Action Plan:

Since Russia’s further aggression in February 2022, the United States has taken concrete steps to address threats posed by potential diversion of weapons. These steps include increasing our understanding of potential diversion risks, sharing information with partners, and ensuring robust oversight of U.S. assistance to Ukraine. The United States consulted with close allies and enhanced end-use monitoring mechanisms.

The plan will be a whole-of-government effort implemented broadly across three phases: now through Fiscal Year (FY) 2023, FY 2024, and beyond FY 2024.

It will focus on three lines of effort:

• Bolstering the ability of security forces in Ukraine and its neighboring states to account for and safeguard their arms and ammunition during transfer, in storage, and when deployed;
• Strengthening border management and security in Ukraine and its neighboring states; and
• Building the capacity of security forces, law enforcement officials, and border control agencies in Ukraine and its neighboring states to deter, detect, and interdict illicit trafficking of certain advanced conventional weapons.
  

End-use monitoring (EUM) measures, as traditionally conducted by State, DoD, and Commerce, while different in their scopes and methodologies, are generally designed to mitigate the risk of illicit diversion in peacetime or low-intensity conflict environments, as they normally rely on in-country presence of U.S. government personnel.

Conducting EUM in an active war zone such as Ukraine requires different approaches, as the conflict makes it impractical to request the return of equipment from the front lines to depots or other locations where U.S. government personnel can inspect them in a safer environment.

This plan accounts for adjustments and innovations that may be possible to help the Ukrainian government monitor and account for the most advanced conventional weapons provided for its defense needs. These measures do not apply to weapons and ammunition in Ukraine’s pre-war inventory."

Continues at:

https://www.state.gov/u-s-plan-to-counter-illicit-diversion-of-certain-advanced-conventional-weapons-in-eastern-europe/

The weapons are being handed out willy nilly.

Another "plan" with an unhappy consequence. Arriving in your country soon. Europe becomes a war zone by NaGastan design.

To whom, "It's too early to tell".

[panama hat]

One way or another, they are making things easier for the Russians to achieve their various goals— not just in the Ukraine—but at home rebuilding Russia as a nation— and abroad establishing a new multipolar world order, a kind of international democracy governed by law and reason.

What an absolute wanker . . . Russia is being rebuilt . . . because it is crumbling.

[bsnub]

And what is this then, but a whitewash ? A mistake ?

The worst atrocities commited, matched only by Pol Pot, in the last 60 years.

2 mill civilians killed

1.5 viet soldiers killed

North viet cities and infrastructure smashed.

Executions and torture chambers en masse.

Tiger cages where you could give the prisoners a nice sprinkle of chalk once a day

Utterly pathetic whataboutism. Most of that is a gross exaggeration, and the only reason it is being mentioned now is to validate and justify what Putin is doing in Ukraine TODAY.

Utterly reprehensible behavior for any human being to attempt to justify one injustice from the distant past with today. You just might as well apply that whataboutism to the Nazi Germany's war crimes.

Putin have to up his ugly game quite a bit, to catch up to what the americans did/condoned and paid for, in Vietnam.

You clearly have serious mental health issues. I wish you the best. Get some help. You need it.