Ukraine war mega thread

[David48atTD]

SLOVAKIA has sent S-300 air defence systems to Ukraine to bolster the armed forces defences against Russia.

Defensive weaponry ... I love it.

Go Slovakia ...

[David48atTD]

^ just quietly, I still reckon this war, in part is being used to rid Armies of old weaponry.

Slovakia just got delivered it's Patriot Missile defence system 2 weeks ago.


Anyway, the irony of using a Russian missile system against the invading Ruskies ... brilliant!



More fun than cracker/fireworks night

[David48atTD]

Not MIGs, but what Ukraine really needs more than anything else are ground-based air defense systems — surface-to-air missiles, or SAMs — especially the kind with medium or greater altitude engagement capabilities that are optimized for high mobility.

And not just any SAM systems that fulfill the requirements, but Soviet-era systems that the Ukrainian military is fully trained on employing in combat and supporting in the field.

Ukraine Needs Ground-Based Air Defenses Way More Than MiGs. Here Are The Best Options

[baldrick]

If they continued with the status quo

ah democracy - do what we want you to do

it is the fault of the Eu and the US for being a more attractive proposition than a kleptocracy

[bsnub]

SLOVAKIA has sent S-300 air defence systems to Ukraine to bolster the armed forces defences against Russia.

It was nice to see the Slovak soldiers loading the those onto the railcars. It hasn't been so long that they can not remember that Russian son of bitches occupied their nation. Clearly not something they will relive without a fight.

[OhOh]

the irony of using a Russian missile system

And not just any SAM systems that fulfill the requirements, but Soviet-era systems

Have had the system since 2004.

"six systems were kept in working conditions between 2004 and 2014".

Ukraine – S-300PT, S-300PS, S-300V.^[138] Only six systems were kept in working conditions between 2004 and 2014; as a result only 40% of Ukrainian S-300 systems were in good condition prior to 2014

S-300 missile system - Wikipedia

US for being a more attractive proposition

In what way?

Weapons:Missile specs; Less range, hit rate. Hardware less effective, Backdoors.
Financial: More expensive. Steals money. Illegal sanctions.

ah democracy - do what we want you to do

Rules are Us!



Comparison with other systems

Official designation of unit		S-300PMU[55]	S-300PMU1[56]	S-300PMU2 [37]	S-300VM[37]/S-300V4[57]	Patriot PAC-2[58]	Patriot PAC-3[59]
Range of, km	aerodynamic target	5–90	5–150	3–200	200 (400)[60]	3–160	15, at most 20[61] / 0.3-20[62]
ballistic targets	at most 35	at most 40	5–40	40	20	15–45[63] (20)[64] possible max 50[62]

Quite a large range available.

Slovaki's system, the system sent to, but not yet in or deployed in, Ukraine:

Slovakia – One battery S-300PMU and 48 missiles type 5V55R inherited from Czechoslovakia

"The S-300PMU (Russian С-300ПМУ, US DoD designation SA-10F Grumble) was introduced in 1992 for the export market"

"a high success rate (90% or more if 1 missile interceptor is used), according to Russian sources."

S-300 missile system - Wikipedia

A long train for one battery.

[harrybarracuda]

Hoohoo would be telling us how good this shit is if it was Russia sending it to Ukraine.

[bsnub]

Hoohoo would be telling us how good this shit is if it was Russia sending it to Ukraine.

He also cherry-picked the information to suit his crap argument. He left this part out...

Due to the war with Russia Ukraine started repairing and pushing back to service several armaments included several S-300 batteries,^[140] with at least 4 batteries overhauled in the period 2014–15. Prior to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the country had around 100 batteries.^[142][143] It received an additional battery from Slovakia in April 2022.

Nice try OhDoh.

[HermantheGerman]

^SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras posted on Twitter:
“The speech of members of the neo-Nazi Order Azov in the Greek Parliament is a provocation.
The absolute responsibility lies with the Prime Minister.
He talked about a historic day but it is a historical shame.
Solidarity with the Ukrainian people is given.
But the Nazis can not have a say in Parliament.”


Oh dear

"I address you, as a Greek by origin. I am Mikhail, my grandfather fought against the Nazis... I participate in the defence of Ukraine through the Azov Battalion,"

I just wonder how a supposedly Nazi would be proud to say that his grandfather fought against the Nazis. Can someone explain that to me? . Being called a Nazi or anti-semit has become so worn out that the REAL meaning is becoming obsolete.


Ukraine's embassy in Athens said the Azov regiment, set up as a far right group in 2014, has been reformed and integrated into the National Guard of Ukraine. "For many years Russia tried to 'plant' into Greek minds the myth that "Azov" Regiment is a paramilitary independent unit operating in Mariupol," it said. "The video ... has nothing to do to those Nazi deeds, Russians commit on our land and against our people."

Azov fighter video overshadows Zelenskiy'''s address to Greek lawmakers | Reuters



By the way:
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Lube Tsipr-ass disagreed on sanctions against Russia over its actions in Ukraine.

Oh Dear

[panama hat]

And you still didn't answer my question about lineage to Nazi's.

Nor does he answer which countries are buying and re-selling Russian gas and oil to countries that have placed an embargo on them.


He spouts as much shit as he wants to then runs tot he next topic when called up on it. He's been doing that a long time.

[David48atTD]

On the border between Belarus and Ukraine is the abandoned detritus of war.
Military equipment left by the side of the road. Hats. Even meals.
Ukrainian civilians and soldiers pick up what the Russians leave behind.

Russian Tanks: Ukrainian Trophies I Dispatches From Ukraine - Locals Report I ARTE.tv Documentary

[David48atTD]

Some Military porn, to get your barrel hot if you have some time.

One thing I was surprised by is that Russia has only ONE active/seaworthy Aircraft Carrier!
The Admiral Kuznetsov which has/had a litany of problems and issues ... Russia's Only Aircraft Carrier Is Outdated and Plagued With Problems

[helge]

One thing I was surprised by is that Russia has only ONE active/seaworthy Aircraft Carrier!

Carriers are for campaigns around the world. Usually used when you want to bully some defenseless brown people.

Harsh; I know, but useless against anyone who posseses submarines.

[helge]

American carriers do not move around the oceans unprotected, they are surrounded by an entire battle group that protects them from all threats.

With what ?

An umbrella ?


They can only try to hide, which would deem them worthless, as they need to be "close" to the ...battlefield.

One week and all carriers are gone.


They are showpieces and for third world action.


Where coincidentally the US usually fight its wars

[helge]

You know what, Bsheep ?

You stick to your beliefs.

Your toys.

You are paying for them.

[Troy]

I can think of at least three USS carriers, fully escorted, that have been embarrassed by submarines from Sweden, France, China and Russia.

[helge]

Both nuclear and AIP submarines, including the Gotland, have repeatedly succeeded in sinking aircraft carriers during NATO naval exercises.

....................

[bsnub]

I can think of at least three USS carriers, fully escorted, that have been embarrassed by submarines from Sweden, France, China and Russia.

Feel free to post your evidence. Sweden and France yes because they have proper subs, but China and Russia have shit loud subs, so I doubt that.

You know what, Bsheep ?

You are clearly triggered and you slob on the putin knob, so whateves...

Both nuclear and AIP submarines, including the Gotland, have repeatedly succeeded in sinking aircraft carriers

during NATO naval exercises.

NATO is the keyword here.

[helge]

NATO is the keyword here.

No; I think naval exercises is the keyword.

so I doubt that.

"doubt" is an improvement from your side

[Troy]

Comparison with other systems

There's a lot more than range and number of simultaneous engagements to consider. The youtube video showing the S-300 acquisition and firing control is interesting in that it looks like they are using A-Scopes and need different operators to acquire targets in range, elevation, and azimuth. That's a lot of co-ordination required for fire control. The Patriot system has more sophisticated displays and easier to acquire and coordinate fire control. There are advantages in using raw data but it needs to be better presented and requires a lot of training.

[bsnub]

Ukraine Is Losing Several S-300 Anti-Air Launchers A Week. But It Still Has Hundreds Left.

Ukraine had around 100 active batteries of S-300 long-range air-defense systems with as many as 300 launchers when Russia widened its war in the country starting the night of Feb. 23.

Seven weeks later, the Russians have knocked out at least 21 of the S-300 launchers that outside analysts have confirmed with photos or videos. Even if the actual total of destroyed launchers is higher—and it almost certainly is—it’s not hard to understand why the Russian air force still is losing a startling number of aircraft.

That said, the day probably is coming when Ukraine runs out of its longest-range surface-to-air weapons.

The Ukrainian army, air force and navy inherited a lot of air-defense equipment when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. These included six brigades and four regiments of S-300s that cascaded to the Ukrainian air force, plus additional S-300s that the army took over.

An S-300 launcher can lob a two-ton, proximity-fuse missile as far as 125 miles, depending on the model.

An S-300 brigade includes several battalions, each of which oversees multiple batteries. A battery usually includes separate acquisition and engagement radars, a command vehicle and up to a dozen launchers each with four ready-to-fire missiles. As such, an S-300 brigade might field a hundred or more launchers and more than 400 ready missiles.

An S-300 regiment usually has four batteries together operating up to 48 launchers with a combined 192 missiles.

Now, in most armies—and Ukraine’s certainly is no exception—actual fielded forces rarely match the official table of organization and equipment. Thus Kyiv’s 10 or more S-300 brigades and regiments together operated only half the batteries their official TOEs implied.

Still, it was a significant force. And one that has managed to absorb steady losses from Russian rockets and cruise missiles. The open-source intelligence analysts at the Oryx blog, who confirm wartime equipment losses by way of photos and videos in the media, place Ukraine’s S-300 attrition at 21 launchers.

That’s the equivalent of seven or so batteries. Seven percent of the pre-war force. One Russian strike in eastern Ukraine in late March knocked out an entire Ukrainian S-300 battery, including a Clam Shell acquisition radar, a Flap Lid engagement radar, four support vehicles and a dozen quad-launchers.

But degrading Ukraine’s long-range air-defenses by seven percent after six weeks of bombardment is nothing for Russian missileers to brag about. It’s doctrine in many militaries to focus initial attacks on the enemy’s air-defenses in order to establish some degree of air-superiority before a ground offensive begins.

Russia did not do that.

To be fair, Russian doctrine doesn’t call for total air superiority prior to an offensive, but it does ask for local superiority over the main line of contact. Even by that lower standard, the Russians have failed to control the air over Ukraine. Kyiv still can shoot S-300s at Russian fighters and attack planes supporting the front-line battalions.

Which helps to explain Russia’s mounting losses in the air. The Ukrainian defense ministry claims it has shot down 150 Russian planes and 135 helicopters. It’s impossible to verify all those claims, of course. The Oryx analysts for their part have found photographic evidence that Russia has lost 19 planes and 28 helicopters—still a significant total.

It’s unclear how many of the kills the S-300 batteries can claim. The Ukrainian air force’s Su-27 and MiG-29 fighters remain active, albeit at a low sortie-rate—and the army’s short-range air-defenders with their mobile and shoulder-fired anti-air missiles have proved particularly deadly. Ukrainian troops even have shot down Russian helicopters using anti-tank guided missiles.

But S-300s are in the fight, too. It’s not for no reason that Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, in his March 16 message to the U.S. Congress, specifically asked for help acquiring more of the long-range missiles. “You know what kind of defense systems we need: S-300 and other similar systems,” Zelensky said.

Zelensky’s request implied both that the S-300 is an important part of Ukraine’s air-defense system—and that the Ukrainians might eventually suffer a shortage of S-300 batteries.

The United States and its allies have been trying to figure out how to deliver S-300s to Ukraine. One plan was for Slovakia to transfer to Ukraine its single battery of S-300s in exchange for the United States or some other country backfilling Slovakia’s arsenal with a new air-defense system such as the American-made Patriot.

A few days after Zelensky asked for S-300s, Germany agreed to deploy some of its Patriots to Slovakia as part of a NATO battlegroup. The United States also agreed to stage its own Patriots in Slovakia.

The Slovakian S-300s departed for Ukraine on or before Friday. Slovenia reportedly is willing to transfer some of its own S-300s, too.

Ukraine’s air-defenders apparently still have hundreds of S-300 launchers, but they continue to lose them at a rate of at least three or four a week. As there’s no end in sight for Europe’s worst war in decades, the time could come when Ukraine has too few long-range air-defense systems.

Kyiv is making good use of its S-300s and needs more of them. The only question is how urgently.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=5c1ac6e23ba8

[Troy]

Feel free to post your evidence. Sweden and France yes because they have proper subs, but China and Russia have shit loud subs, so I doubt that.

Chinese Song class vs USS Kitty Hawk sometime around 2006/7

Russian Viktor class vs USS Kitty Hawk in the mid 80's

I think there were other incidents involving the Russian Kilo class.

[bsnub]

Russian Viktor class vs USS Kitty Hawk in the mid 80's

Those are diesel powered subs that are limited to the coasts of China

Russian Viktor class vs USS Kitty Hawk in the mid 80's

That was thirty years ago, and they ran into each other. You are really reaching.

[OhOh]

how good this shit is

They were good in the 1970s, far better now.

Nice try

My apologies, I should have read further. As well as kicking off our military experts.

[Backspin]

Gotta love all the Ukraine experts we have here. After sperging out on the conflict for a grand total of 3 weeks.

While me , ohoh, Sabang and a couple others have been following the topic since 2014.