Ukraine war mega thread

[MarilynMonroe]

@Troy, thanks for the reply. I don't know the history of Zelensky that is why I asked you to clarify. It seems like he aggravated Russia, and maybe didn't make the best decisions. I don't understand why he doesn't want to be part of NATO either? It is past the point on what Zelensky could have done different now, but now he is looked at as a 'hero' because he is not leaving Ukraine and staying to fight. The live stream earlier in front of the House of Commons really affected me. I'm not sure if you watched it, but he was making it personal to us/Trudeau, saying imagine if the CN tower was bombed, etc. The issue is, we are doing as much as we can so far. (we can do more ). We can't make a no fly zone as we are worried that a nuke will be set off or World War 3 will start. It is a precarious situation. Pray for peace. You can't reason with Putin though as he is a madman and he won't stop.

Pray for peace.

Indeed, Russ! Peace is the only solution, but I fear it is way past that point now.

[OhOh]

Two thousand passenger cars left Mariupol in the direction of Zaporozhye as of Tuesday 15:00 - mayor's office.

Glad to hear they're finally working.

As I posted some time ago, the Syrian model, once Russia/Iran/Hezbollah came aboard to assist the Syrian government.

Will Zelensky be there for 12 years? Assad is still there.

A Russian corridor to Crimea and the lands to ensure fresh water to Crimea will be the minimum now

Possibly, the entire Black Sea coast, to the Romanian border. North to the northern edge of Transnistria. North east to south of Київ, and finally the eastern bank/enter line of Dnieper river, north to the Беларусь border.

Allegedly, mostly Russian native speaking areas and a good grain harvest every year. Leave the west to ex National Socialist German Workers' Party.

Maybe Poland, Slovakia and Hungary would like some to be returned to them.

[MarilynMonroe]

Of course Russia should not have invaded, it is an economic disaster for them and for the whole of Europe.

Indeed, and it affects the whole world. Our gas prices have gone up beyond belief. It will only get worse as well.

[OhOh]

we are doing as much as we can so far. (we can do more )

When you are vassals of NaGastan, who control NATOS nukes, they decide.

[MarilynMonroe]

it is an economic disaster for them and for the whole of Europe.

What about Ukraine? It is a total disaster for their infrastructure, and people have lost their homes and are now fleeing to other countries. Lots of senseless deaths as well. Number of refugees nears 3 million now.

[Troy]

When you are vassals of NaGastan, who control NATOS nukes, they decide.

Ahem, you forget that France and the UK are part of the 'Big 5' and are also part of Nato.

[Backspin]

Larpers please stay home. What you've heard about the Russian military just isn't true.

We know he went there. It's not confirmed if he's dead yet.

Elite Canadian sniper joins Ukraine in fight against Russia

[Troy]

What about Ukraine? It is a total disaster for their infrastructure, and people have lost their homes and are now fleeing to other countries. Lots of senseless deaths as well. Number of refugees nears 3 million now.

As i said...

Burn and Learn.

Unfortunate, but there you have it.

A pity skiddy makes so much fun of this tragedy though.

[Backspin]

What about Ukraine? It is a total disaster for their infrastructure, and people have lost their homes and are now fleeing to other countries. Lots of senseless deaths as well. Number of refugees nears 3 million now.

Probably wasn't a good idea to fund a west Ukrainian partisan govt , which the US did in 2014. West and east Ukraine got along fine from 1991 to 2014.

Adding NATO membership , bio labs, US and UK naval and air bases didn't help the cause for peace either

[pickel]

Possibly, the entire Black Sea coast, to the Romanian border. North to the northern edge of Transnistria. North east to south of Київ, and finally the eastern bank/enter line of Dnieper river, north to the Беларусь border.

Allegedly, mostly Russian native speaking areas and a good grain harvest every year. Leave the west to ex National Socialist German Workers' Party.

More than 2 weeks in and Russia still doesn't fully control the Donbas region. I guess a lot of those Russian speakers don't want to be liberated.

[helge]

I guess a lot of those Russian speakers don't want to be liberated.

Anyone heard anything about violence going on between ethnic russians and ethnic ukrainians ?

Neighbor versus neighbor if you understand what I mean.

I'm not talking Donetsk et al.


This could lead to old scores being settled and get really nasty

[MarilynMonroe]

Burn and Learn.

Unfortunate, but there you have it

I disagree, because Putin is committing war crimes now.. no one deserves this, especially a democratic country no matter what happened.

[Troy]

Probably wasn't a good idea to fund a west Ukrainian partisan govt , which the US did in 2014. West and east Ukraine got along fine from 1991 to 2014.

Adding NATO membership , bio labs, US and UK naval and air bases didn't help the cause for peace either

Will you desist with this conspiracy theory twaddle. Yes, the USA provided aid to Ukraine following its independence. Russia also provided financial aid. The uprising was more to do with the government appearing to be pro Russia, which was not popular.

The USA didn't finance the uprising.

[helge]

The USA didn't finance the uprising.

Hmm

Some disagree with you there

[helge]

I haven't watch it in full

I'm sure that the US "invested" in the riots, cause it was in their interest.



And:

United States involvement[edit]

In December 2013, Republican Senator John McCain in company with Democratic senator Chris Murphy visited Yatsenyuk and Tyahnybok and later addressed the crowds:

Ukraine will make Europe better and Europe will make Ukraine better, we are here to support your just cause, the sovereign right of Ukraine to determine its own destiny freely and independently.

And the destiny you seek lies in Europe, What we're trying to do is try to bring about a peaceful transition here, that would stop the violence and give the Ukrainian people what they unfortunately have not had, with different revolutions that have taken place – a real society.

This is a grassroots revolution here – it's been peaceful except when the government tried to crack down on them, and the government hasn't tried that since.

I'm praising their ability and their desire to demonstrate peacefully for change that I think they deserve.

These people love the United States of America, they love freedom – and I don't think you could view this as anything other than our traditional support for people who want free and democratic society.^[342]

In a recorded phone conversation leaked on 4 February, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt are heard discussing their wishes for a Ukraine transition to an interim government, and specifically, the roles in which they hoped to see the prominent opposition leaders:

Nuland: "I don't think Klitsch (Klitschko) should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea."

Pyatt: "Just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff."

Nuland: "I think Yats (Yatsenyuk) is the guy who's got the economic experience the governing experience.
I just think Klitsch going in… he's going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it's just not going to work.

We want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing."^[343]

A line of riot police in Kiev on 12 February.

Nuland was also recorded in the same conversation saying

, "Fuck the EU," dismissively referring to slow-moving European efforts to

[OhOh]

we are doing as much as we can so far. (we can do more ).

When you are vassals of NaGastan, and the Pentagon decide their nukes are not appropriate. Sitting on your hands is all you can do.

Of course Russia should not have invaded, it is an economic disaster for them and for the whole of Europe.

Russia offered a diplomatic solution last December, but was told to piss off by NaGastan and EU. Europe buckled to NaGastan and will pay the price. Both NaGastan and EU were already in recession and both are getting worse by the day.

Whether Russia will be affected badly is yet to be determined. Commodity suppliers have the upper hand and Russia has ample, for themselves and for foreign buyer, when they drop the sanctions and crawl back with large amounts of рубль rublʹ.

The rest is western governments panicking and managing their pet media.

The world's leaders queue up to grab a call or visit THE LORD.

The world's leaders refuse to take any call from POTUS.

Just two days ago, the FM of Qatar was in Москва:

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s remarks at a joint news conference following talks with Foreign Minister of the State of Qatar Mohammed bin Abdulrahman bin Jassim Al-Thani, Moscow, March 14, 2022

14 March 2022 15:05

https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1804014/

Yesterday it was Iran:

Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s opening remarks during talks with Foreign Minister of the Islamic Republic of Iran Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, Moscow, March 15, 2022

15 March 2022 14:17

https://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/1804296/

NaGastan runs cap in hand, to Venezuela and Iran begging for oil.

Ahem, you forget that France and the UK are part of the 'Big 5' and are also part of Nato.

Neither of which would do shit without NaGastan firing first.

More than 2 weeks in and Russia still doesn't fully control the Donbas region.

Russia doesn't do shock and awe for the TV audience.

Unlike some who took 5 weeks to reach Baghdad, through deserts.

Timeline of Major Events in the Iraq War


"Pivotal events in Iraq from the March 2003 invasion to the December 2011 withdrawal of U.S. troops.


President Bush announces the start of a war against Iraq.

March 20, 2003


An explosion in Baghdad, shortly before President Bush's announcement from the Oval Office of the "opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign" to remove Saddam Hussein from power.


President Bush announced "Mission Acomplished after

May 1, 2003

Speaking from the deck of the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln beneath a banner that read "Mission Accomplished," President Bush declares that the military phase of the battle to topple Saddam Hussein's government

June 28, 2004

Fifteen months after Saddam Hussein's removal from power, the American authorities transfer formal sovereignty of Iraq to its new leaders in a surprise ceremony called two days ahead of schedule."

Timeline of Major Events in the Iraq War - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com


one year and three months from start to finish, of official war, but they still can't leave after 19 years.

I guess a lot of those Russian speakers don't want to be liberated.

Has anybody given the Ukraine citizens a choice/asked them, - no

Were they asked last December? The option to settle, through diplomacy, was made by Russia, - no

Were they asked 3 weeks ago, prior to their leader, demanding the use of nukes by NaGastan, - no

[pickel]

Has anybody given them a choice/asked them?

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is a native Russian speaker. Former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a prominent leader of Ukraine’s Orange Revolution, was also raised speaking Russian. Both Zelensky and Tymoshenko received enormous electoral support in the Ukrainian-speaking parts of the country. And Russian-speaking Ukrainians are fighting for their country, defending Kharkiv and other cities against the invading Russian army.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...sian-speakers/

[pickel]

Russia doesn't do shock and awe for the TV audience.

Why would they need shock and awe if they want to be liberated?

[helge]

Why would they need shock and awe if they want to be liberated?

?

..........

[pickel]

^
Hint, Helge. They don't want to be liberated. Ohoh is a fool. And there is shock and awe.

[OhOh]

Both Zelensky and Tymoshenko received enormous electoral support in the Ukrainian-speaking parts of the country. And Russian-speaking Ukrainians are fighting for their country, defending Kharkiv and other cities against the invading Russian army.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...sian-speakers/

WP is a "neutral" source?

When was the "support" for a war aginst Russia put to all the Ukranian electorate? Not just those whose native speech is Ukrainian.

All Ukrainians, well 16 to 60 year olds, have to follow the new Ukraine law, passed only weeks ago, otherwise get SPLATTERED.

Why would they need shock and awe if they want to be liberated?

Russia was "liberated" some decades ago.

[helge]

^^

Aha. Get it

[OhOh]

Your link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...sian-speakers/

returns:

Sorry, we can’t seem to find the page you’re looking for.

They don't want to be liberated

Who says so, have the Ukrainian citizens been asked?

Or has their government just passed a law stating all citizens, 16 to 60 must fight?

Were they asked if a political settlement was preferable?

[pickel]

WP is a "neutral" source?

They quite often criticize their own country's Presidents. Do your sources ever criticize Putin?

When was the "support" for a war aginst Russia put to all the Ukranian electorate? Not just those whose native speech is Ukrainian.

Putin didn't give them one before he invaded.

Russia was "liberated" some decades ago.

So was Ukraine. Now go suck a tailpipe and liberate us from your nonsense.

[pickel]

Who says so, have the Ukrainian citizens been asked?

Well, at least you're referring to Russian speakers as Ukrainian citizens now. Putin should too.