Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

But actually this one is OhNO, who is also a heck of a scumbag.

Oh, for sure! Both of them cheerleading this war, the nasty window lickers they are.

[baldrick]

Disarming Ukraine Day 15

how many generals did pootin remove from their posts today ?

[bsnub]

Alleged audio files added to the video claim to show a conversation between Russian forces during the event. Here is a translation:

Udar: Nitra I am Udar

Nitra: 6th regiment is almost lost

Udar: what?

Nitra: 6th regiment, I am collecting them, a lot of losses, cant report yet. Head of the column got into an ambush, commander is dead. I am checking the rest.

Udar: As soon as you check let me know

Nitra: They were hitting us with artillery, tanks and I think Bayraktars, AUVs. I am trying to figure it out

[David48atTD]

Cutting Through the Fog Masking ‘a New Page in the Art of War’

Pepe Escobar March 10, 2022

Cutting Through the Fog Masking ‘a New Page in the Art of War’ — Strategic Culture

The Strategic Culture Foundation is a Russian think tank that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. It is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests.

Meh

[David48atTD]

What has US done with bat coronavirus in Ukraine? World deserves explanation

What has US done with bat coronavirus in Ukraine? World deserves explanation - Global Times

The Global Times (simplified Chinese: 环球时报; traditional Chinese: 環球時報; pinyin: Huánqiú Shíbào) is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's flagship People's Daily newspaper, commenting on international issues from a nationalistic perspective.

[David48atTD]

Another Ukraine documentary. It will get taken down soon

Yep, and so it should be.

Not from a political perspective, but the copy-rite laws are being violated.

[sabang]

The whole world will be interested to know what exactly the American bio-laboratories in Ukraine were doing.”

Very interested, indeed.

In sum: it’s an all-out war on Eurasia integration.

That is what I think too. But I think it is doomed to fail.



Always interesting to read Pepe Escobar- he and Alastair Crooke were the main sources that clued me to the utter bollocks we were being forcefed about Syria.

Lets face it, most of this forum consists of anglos- both expat and home based. Islanders, basically. But we do have a fair smattering of Euros too- and I am amazed at your seeming insouciance about these Pentagon funded biolabs in Ukraine. Oh, but it's America- you can always trust them right? Take Fort Detrick, in Maryland-

2019 closure and resumption of operations[edit]

Following the cease and desist order from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in which the USAMRIID laboratory at the base was shut down in August of 2019 for at least two "breaches of containment", the announcement to resume operations on a "limited scale" was made on November 25, 2019. The two breaches reported to the CDC by USAMRIID staff demonstrated failures of biosafety level 3 and 4 protocols in the Army laboratory to "implement and maintain containment procedures sufficient to contain select agents or toxins".^[33]

After approximately eight months of closure and restrictions, the USAMRIID BSL-4 lab had been authorized to resume full operational status by April 2020, to the applause of Maryland lawmakers including SenatorBen Cardin, who stated "it is a relief to have USAMRIID fully operational with the current COVID-19 outbreak"'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_D..._of_operations
Oh, but these are in blue eyed, fair skinned Ukraine- you can always trust them right?

[David48atTD]

The west is full pogrompilled.

Not really a word Backspin ... pogrompilled ... nice try though.


But, to be honest, you have completely fucked up there.



In the whole of the internet, there is one sole reference to the word 'pogrompilled'.

By a Russian Journalist Anatoly Karlin Z,Z whose quotes are ...

• The weak do not deserve my takes

• To walk amongst the stars we must avoid idiot's limbo

If you want a bit of a giggle, his account is here ... https://twitter.com/akarlin0?lang=en

[bsnub]

Alleged audio files added to the video claim to show a conversation between Russian forces during the event. Here is a translation:

Udar: Nitra I am Udar

Nitra: 6th regiment is almost lost

Udar: what?

Nitra: 6th regiment, I am collecting them, a lot of losses, cant report yet. Head of the column got into an ambush, commander is dead. I am checking the rest.

Udar: As soon as you check let me know

Nitra: They were hitting us with artillery, tanks and I think Bayraktars, AUVs. I am trying to figure it out

Here is another clip of the aftermath...

Tanks suffer attacks from Bayraktar drones in Ukraine this morning of March 10th 2022 : CombatFootage

[sabang]

It's all a bit late now, hindsight etc, but maybe we should have separated the Ukraine stuff into a war porn, and a political thread. Oh, and a News thread obviously- but I think that has somewhat morphed into hermans picture thread also.

[david44]

I cannot even comment on such a tragedy

2 hours ago - 49°10′N 37°27′E
In the Kharkiv region, the Russian military fired on the Oskilsky psychoneurological boarding school, which housed 330 people. The information on dead and wounded is specified - the head of regional administration

In the Kharkiv region, the Russian military fired on the Oskilsky psychoneurological boarding school, which housed 330 people. The information on dead and wounded is specified - the head of regional administration Sinegubov Kharkiv, Kharkiv Oblast - Ukraine Interactive map - Ukraine Latest news on live map - liveuamap.com

[bsnub]

It's all a bit late now, hindsight etc, but maybe we should have separated the Ukraine stuff into a war porn, and a political thread.

Maybe we should have created a thread just for you where you bleat on and on for months at a time claiming that Russia would never invade despite having almost 200,000 troops on the boarder and that the western governments that correctly warned about the coming invasion were all liars.



Sorry cupcake, if it pains you to see Russians getting blown to pieces in an illegal war that they should have never started.

[sabang]

I am a Humanist, and it pains me to see, read or hear about humans beings maimed and killed in generally avoidable, pointless wars. But one does get somewhat used to it, and this one isn't as bad as several others have been in recent history. So, m'ehhh.

I'm sure you will appreciate a bit of historical background to the Ukraine crisis snubs. You're welcome.



US hypocrisy and the role of Victoria Nuland in the Maidan Coup.

By P&I Guest Writers
Mar 5, 2022

There is an abundance of outrage in the United States about Russia’s alleged meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Multiple investigations are taking place, and Moscow’s conduct was a major justification for the sanctions legislation that Congress just passed. Some furious political figures and members of the media insist that the Putin government’s interference constitutes an act of war. One especially agitated House member even compared it explicitly to the Pearl Harbor and 9/11 attacks.


Such umbrage might be more credible if the United States refrained from engaging in similar conduct. But the historical record shows that Washington has meddled in the political affairs of dozens of countries—including many democracies. An egregious example occurred in Ukraine during the Euromaidan Revolution of 2014.

Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych was not an admirable character. After his election in 2010, he used patronage and other instruments of state power in a flagrant fashion to the advantage of his political party. That high‐​handed behavior and legendary corruption alienated large portions of Ukraine’s population. As the Ukrainian economy languished and fell farther and farther behind those of Poland and other East European neighbors that had implemented significant market‐​oriented reforms, public anger at Yanukovych mounted. When he rejected the European Union’s terms for an association agreement in late 2013, in favor of a Russian offer, angry demonstrators filled Kiev’s Independence Square, known as the Maidan, as well as sites in other cities.

Despite his leadership defects and character flaws, Yanukovych had been duly elected in balloting that international observers considered reasonably free and fair—about the best standard one can hope for outside the mature Western democracies. A decent respect for democratic institutions and procedures meant that he ought to be able to serve out his lawful term as president, which would end in 2016.

The extent of the Obama administration’s meddling in Ukraine’s politics was breathtaking.

Neither the domestic opposition nor Washington and its European Union allies behaved in that fashion. Instead, Western leaders made it clear that they supported the efforts of demonstrators to force Yanukovych to reverse course and approve the EU agreement or, if he would not do so, to remove the president before his term expired.

Sen. John McCain (R‑AZ), the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, went to Kiev to show solidarity with the Euromaidan activists. McCain dined with opposition leaders, including members of the ultra right‐​wing Svoboda Party, and later appeared on stage in Maidan Square during a mass rally. He stood shoulder to shoulder with Svoboda leader Oleg Tyagnibok.

But McCain’s actions were a model of diplomatic restraint compared to the conduct of Victoria Nuland, the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian Affairs.( Nuland is now Biden’s Under Secretary for Political Affairs. John Menadue)

As Ukraine’s political crisis deepened, Nuland and her subordinates became more brazen in favoring the anti‐​Yanukovych demonstrators. Nuland noted in a speech to the U.S.-Ukraine Foundation on December 13, 2013, that she had traveled to Ukraine three times in the weeks following the start of the demonstrations. Visiting the Maidan on December 5, she handed out cookies to demonstrators and expressed support for their cause.

The extent of the Obama administration’s meddling in Ukraine’s politics was breathtaking. Russian intelligence intercepted and leaked to the international media a Nuland telephone call in which she and U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Geoffey Pyatt discussed in detail their preferences for specific personnel in a post‐​Yanukovych government. The U.S‑favored candidates included Arseniy Yatsenyuk, the man who became prime minister once Yanukovych was ousted from power. During the telephone call, Nuland stated enthusiastically that “Yats is the guy” who would do the best job.

Nuland and Pyatt were engaged in such planning at a time when Yanukovych was still Ukraine’s lawful president. It was startling to have diplomatic representatives of a foreign country—and a country that routinely touts the need to respect democratic processes and the sovereignty of other nations—to be scheming about removing an elected government and replacing it with officials meriting U.S. approval.

Washington’s conduct not only constituted meddling, it bordered on micromanagement. At one point, Pyatt mentioned the complex dynamic among the three principal opposition leaders, Yatsenyuk, Oleh Tyahnybok, and Vitali Klitschko. Both Pyatt and Nuland wanted to keep Tyahnybok and Klitschko out of an interim government. In the former case, they worried about his extremist ties; in the latter, they seemed to want him to wait and make a bid for office on a longer‐​term basis. Nuland stated that “I don’t think Klitsch should go into the government. I don’t think it’s necessary.” She added that what Yatseniuk needed “is Klitsch and Tyanhybok on the outside.”

The two diplomats also were prepared to escalate the already extensive U.S. involvement in Ukraine’s political turbulence. Pyatt stated bluntly that “we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing [the political transition].” Nuland clearly had Vice President Joe Biden in mind for that role. Noting that the vice president’s national security adviser was in direct contact with her, Nuland related that she told him “probably tomorrow for an atta‐​boy and to get the details to stick. So Biden’s willing.”

Both the Obama administration and most of the American news media portrayed the Euromaidan Revolution as a spontaneous, popular uprising against a corrupt and brutal government.

A February 24, 2014, Washington Post editorial celebrated the Maidan demonstrators and their successful campaign to overthrow Yanukovych. The “moves were democratic,” the Washington Post concluded, and “Kiev is now controlled by pro‐​Western parties.”

It was a grotesque distortion to portray the events in Ukraine as a purely indigenous, popular uprising. The Nuland‐​Pyatt telephone conversation and other actions confirm that the United States was considerably more than a passive observer to the turbulence. Instead, U.S. officials were blatantly meddling in Ukraine. Such conduct was utterly improper. The United States had no right to try to orchestrate political outcomes in another country—especially one on the border of another great power. It is no wonder that Russia reacted badly to the unconstitutional ouster of an elected, pro‐​Russian government—an ouster that occurred not only with Washington’s blessing, but apparently with its assistance.

That episode, as well as earlier ones involving Italy, France and other democratic countries, should be kept in mind the next time U.S. political leaders or the media publicly fume about Russia’s apparent interference in America’s 2016 elections. One can legitimately condemn some aspects of Moscow’s behavior, but the force of America’s moral outrage is vitiated by the stench of U.S. hypocrisy.


Carpenter is a contributing editor to the National Interest, the American Conservative, and 19FortyFive, and is a weekly columnist at Anti​war​.com. He serves on the editorial board of the Journal of Strategic Studies and was a member of Mediterranean Quarterly’s editorial board from 1998 to 2018. Carpenter is the author of more than 950 articles and policy studies. His articles have appeared in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, the Financial Times, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, the National Interest, World Policy Journal, and many other publications. He is a frequent guest on radio and television programs in the United States, Latin America, Europe, East Asia, and other regions.



This article appeared in National Interest Online on August 6 2017.

https://johnmenadue.com/ted-galen-carpenter-americas-ukraine-hypocrisy-and-the-role-of-victoria-newland-a-key-biden-adviser/


Got this from an aussie publication actually. It ain't 100% Murdoch here, thank goodness.

[bsnub]

I am a Humanist, and it pains me to see, read or hear about humans beings maimed and killed in generally avoidable, pointless wars. But one does get somewhat used to it, and this one isn't as bad as several others have been in recent history. So, m'ehhh.

There you go again. This is an awful war with massive civilian casualties, and that is just disgusting on your part to claim that "it isn't as bad". The last time that a military force deliberately targeted civilians was when Russia turned Grozny into glass in the two wars in Chechnya. It is part of Russian military doctrine to indiscriminately attack civilian targets.

Humanist my ass.

US hypocrisy and the role of Victoria Nuland in the Maidan Coup.

More of the same old crap from the Three Stooges. It is a broken record and has been for a long time.

[sabang]

Some 500,000 said to have been killed in the Syrian war snubs- helluva long way to go there. Around 100,000 in the Iraqi invasion too. My delicate Humanist sensibilities will surely survive this too.

[Norton]

Ukraine has been at war one way or another for more than a thousand and through it all they are still here and if history is a predictor, they will be here after this latest invasion.

List of wars involving Ukraine

List of wars involving Ukraine - Wikipedia

[bsnub]

My delicate Humanist sensibilities will surely survive this too.

Those wars lasted for many years, you numpty. This war is only days old, and the death toll is rising exponentially. Entire Ukrainian cities are being turned into glass, but at the end of the day you do not give a fuck because you are a Putin nob gobbler.

[sabang]

Maybe you should read Bloodlands, by Prof Tim Snyder snubs. It is an excellent read. Ukraine is no stranger to war.

In this book, Snyder examines the political, cultural, and ideological context tied to a specific region of Central and Eastern Europe, where Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union and Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany committed mass murders of an estimated 14 million noncombatants between 1933 and 1945, the majority outside the death camps of the Holocaust. Snyder's thesis is that the "bloodlands", a region that now comprises Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, the Baltic states (Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania), northeastern Romania, and the westernmost fringes of Russia, is the area that Stalin and Hitler's regimes, despite their conflicting goals, interacted to increase suffering and bloodshed many times worse than had they acted independently. Snyder draws similarities between the two totalitarian regimes and the enabling interactions that reinforced the destruction and suffering that were inflicted upon noncombatants.^[1] According to Snyder, Nazi Germany was responsible for twice as many deaths as the Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodlands



And perhaps even, bear this in mind. It was written in 2001-


“The way wars are reported in the western media follows a depressingly predictable pattern: stage one, the crisis; stage two, the demonization of the enemy’s leader; stage three, the demonization of the enemy as individuals; and stage four, atrocities.”

Phillip Knightley, author of The First Casualty, quoted in the Guardian

[bsnub]

Maybe you should read Bloodlands, by Prof Tim Snyder snubs. Ukraine is no stranger to war.

I am well aware of Ukrainian history. Your second sentence is disturbing, clearly you are intent on justifying this unprovoked invasion. The reality is that, using your flawed logic, all of Western Europe is no stranger to war.

[Norton]

“The way wars are reported in the ________ media follows a depressingly predictable pattern: stage one, the crisis; stage two, the demonization of the enemy’s leader; stage three, the demonization of the enemy as individuals; and stage four, atrocities.”

Fixed for you. All wars follow the same sequence. Calling out only "western" media shows a total ignorance of war history. In fact Russia is following the script as we speak. And yes, so is the "west". Siding with either side 100% only indicates a person has swallowed a big dose of justification for their preferred good guys.

[sabang]

True that, although I was quoting verbatim- and tbh, don't have near as much exposure to 'other' media- certainly not in native language.

[Norton]

Deleted. Double post.

[Norton]

True that, although I was quoting verbatim- and tbh, don't have near as much exposure to 'other' media- certainly not in native language.

Nor do I and doubt few have. Makes it hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[bsnub]

Calling out only "western" media shows a total ignorance of war history. In fact Russia is following the script as we speak. And yes, so is the "west". Siding with either side 100% only indicates a person has swallowed a big dose of justification for their preferred good guys.

Well said from an old sage. The fact is though that Russia has no free press anymore, if it ever did. There is a stranglehold on information and the propaganda comes straight from the Kremlin, which is batshit crazy.

I will admit that using resources like Twitter, TikTok, and Reddit you can patchwork together a bigger truth than any media outlet can provide.

The truth on the ground is that the Ukrainian army is having a great degree of success in hitting the Russian scum, of course there are losses on both sides, but I see a more efficient and effective fighting force on the Ukrainian side. They are far more effective in direct engagements than the Russians, who are completely disorganized and who have made countless tactical errors in the massive amounts of combat footage I have watched.

That said, Russia has a lot of meat to throw into the grinder, and the Ukrainians may well be defeated by attrition. That is the reality of warfare but it is coming at a massive cost to Russia and one that it will not recover from.

[Cujo]

The UK government has urged British veterans not to travel to Ukraine to fight. The veterans minister, Leo Docherty, called on ex-service personnel not to join the war in Ukraine and instead help Ukrainians from home, either through charity and volunteering.
A total of 48 schools have been destroyed in Kharkiv, its mayor has said, as the city comes under relentless bombardment. “As of today, 48 (of the city’s) schools have been destroyed,” said mayor Ihor Terekhov in a televised address.
The regional governor of Kharkiv has condemned today’s attack on a psychiatric hospital, saying it was “a war crime against civilians”. Ukraine has accused Russian forces of hitting a psychiatric hospital near the eastern Ukrainian town of Izyum.
Russian forces shelled residential areas of Kharkiv 89 times in one day, the local governor has said. Reuters reports that Oleh Synegubov also said there is no danger to civilians after an institute with a nuclear laboratory was hit.
Vladimir Putin today approved bringing thousands of fighters from the Middle East to fight for Russia against Ukraine. At a meeting of Russia’s Security Council, defence minister Sergei Shoigu said there were 16,000 volunteers in the Middle East who were ready to come to fight with Russian-backed forces in eastern Ukraine in the breakaway Donbass region.
The EU will double the amount it is spending on providing military support to Ukraine to €1billion, it has been announced at a leaders’ summit on Versailles. The EU’s foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said agreement among the 27 leaders had not been difficult to secure.
Lithuania’s president Gitanas Nausėda said there was a “flavour of disappointment” to the decision by the EU leaders at a summit in Versailles not to offer Ukraine a fast track to EU candidate status in their response to Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s request.
The UN migration agency reports that as of today more than 2.5 million people have fled Ukraine. Of the total, the International Organisation for Migration said that 116,000 were third-country nationals.
Russian forces have killed more Ukrainian civilians than soldiers, Ukraine’s defence minister said today. “I want this to be heard not only in Kyiv but all over the world,” Oleksii Reznikov said.

Russia-Ukraine war latest news: bombs hit Lutsk, Dnipro and Ivano-Frankivsk amid relentless bombardment of Kharkiv | World news | The Guardian