Ukraine war mega thread

[nidhogg]

It involves the blocking by Ukraine of the canal to bring fresh water to the Crimea.

You mean the bit that Russia illegally annexed last time?

[Norton]

I hope this crisis is resolved soon

Afraid it will go on for a very long time. Incompatible clash of ideology at play here. On the one hand a very determined leader who as a comedian played the piano with his dick. On the other side a former KGB operative bound and determined to revive the glory days of the Soviet Union.

Russia is looking at a protacted urban guerilla war which they can't win. Suffering and death on both sides until Putin is forced to realize he made a serious miscalculation. Putin is done. Just a matter of time but won't be in the near future.

[Norton]

I want a set of those matryoshka dolls

My babushka made them and gave to friends. She called them babushka dolls. Always a set of 5. Mother, father and 3 children. She also made traditional Ukranian painted eggs for Easter. Incredibly difficult to make but absolutely beautiful.

[katie23]

^cheers. I didn't know that they came in sets of 5. I once visited the house of an ex-colleague, she was from Taiwan & husband was from Belarus. They had the dolls displayed and called them matryoshka dolls. I also remember seeing babushkas in a travel vid by the vlogger serpentza. He/ they went to this small town in China and there was an enclave of people with Russian origins. The matriarch wore the typical scarf.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

I didn't and don't intend to. There is nothing that can justify this criminal invasion and the atrocities that are being committed.

It is not a justification but rather the reasons behind it, and don't tell me that the US did not know the reasons and where this was going. The powers to be gabled with the lives of Ukrainians for their own political and strategic goals, that Putin was bluffing and lost.

[david44]

Afraid it will go on for a very long time. Incompatible clash of ideology at play here. On the one hand a very determined leader who as a comedian played the piano with his dick. On the other side a former KGB operative bound and determined to revive the glory days of the Soviet Union.

Russia is looking at a protacted urban guerilla war which they can't win. Suffering and death on both sides until Putin is forced to realize he made a serious miscalculation. Putin is done. Just a matter of time but won't be in the near future.

I fear you are correct, even if the capital falls or leaders fall, a government in exile will have support of all people of god will.

If my country was in a jam I'd sooner have USA NATO EU plus Japan S Korea and ANZACS with me than any number of Ohos Spinbacks India China Cuba and N Korea.

India has mistepped and will pay the price or end up i the naughty corner with scum like the Burmese dictators. The Thais swill say all manner of contradictory statements actions to please China and USA but everyone knows they lie so nobody cares.

Like the battle of Britain foreign pilots in donated aircraft may help the air imbalance.They will run out of Mig trained pilots soon.If Nato reflags and flies out of Poland etc I imagine they will be attacked by Russian and Belarus AA.
NATO has plenty of planes, weaponry , how many pilots that can be deployed in E Ukraine moot? I am sure US doesn't want teh inevitable hostage tools any ejected pilots would offer.

Looks like gloves off attacking non combatants old , folks, babies, women and children cannot be allowed.
Will USA allow its gals to be conscripted to die in a Slavic civil war unlikely.
Plenty of Poles would happily have a go though, just put a scalp bounty , like the Czech legion they 'd keep going to Vladivostok if the price was right.

However its hard to defend civilians against those themo-barbarians who will shell houses.

I think it'll get worse before it gets better.

NATO may not reveal but must have a planned response if Russia goes nuclear, it's a stark choice once the nukes start flying around it'll be too late to consult or do startegic policy review.

Putin needs to know NATO will not surrender Ukrainian independence under any circumstances , this will cost, esp if terror in EU and USA or China, Iran and N Korea take advantage of this

I think a neutralized Donbass buffer zone may be leas worst option, but having gained the vital seaports and access to Ukraine it will be hard to see Russia yielding Crimea without regime change.

[bsnub]

It is not a justification but rather the reasons behind it

I am well versed in the history of Ukraine and Russia, I do not need to watch a video about the conflict.

The powers to be gabled with the lives of Ukrainians for their own political and strategic goals, that Putin was bluffing and lost.

So you are trying to blame the west for this illegal invasion. Absolute idiocy.

[Iceman123]

^^^
Possibly correct, but we should be focussing on knocking Putin out of the game, rather than having the post-mortem of what went wrong on the diplomatic front.

Plenty time to dissect later, currently the free world needs to do more to help Ukraine.

[Switch]

Let’s hope that the support arrives in time to protect Kyiv but that’s a very tall order.

Putis war will not enjoy being targeted by their home produced aircraft that’s for sure. I’m surprised how vulnerable that very long convoy looks, but it getting too close for comfort. Hopefully the Ukraine military leadership has some reserves, and few surprises for Putin’s arrogance.

[Norton]

The matriarch wore the typical scarf

The scarf called a babushka as are the old gals the wear them.
Not sure but the set of 5 may be traditional Ukranian.
To stay on topic, the difference between Russians and Ukrainians is near zero yet here they are at war. When will we ever learn?

[david44]

When will we ever learn?

Yep , Russia was of course born in Ukraine
China
Vietnam
Spain
USA
Bosnia and countless other civil conflicts that we we all hoped were part of history.

While civilians alwas suffered from rape , pillage, foraging armies, remote weapons drones , economic and cyber warfare et al, means the poor worldwide will be hit by increased food/fuel even in deepest LOS

May I simply add to your prescient post that nearly all were started by stupid men.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

You mean the bit that Russia illegally annexed last time?

Crimea became part of Russia in 1783 only 7 years after the US was created. In contrast Texas became part of the US in 1845
So Crimea was part of Russia for a very long time. and almost as long as Texas was part of the US If one was to make the argument that Russia does not have a claim on the Crimea then IMO one must also agree that the US can potentially not have a claim on Texas
Crimea was part of Russia over two hundred years and independent as part of Ukraine in 1991-2014 ,
so a part of Russia for over 200 years and not part of Russia for 23. which part do you think has a greater claim?

[bsnub]

Crimea became part of Russia in 1783 only 7 years after the US was created.

If you want to apply that logic, then let's talk about Königsberg. It was founded by the Teutonic knights in 1255 it was always German until the Russians took it after WW2. Are you ready to redraw the entire European continent? Your argument is hollow.

[helge]

So I think it would be safe to say that those that would disagree that Cyprus is the only EU member that is not a NATO member are simply wrong and should do the honorable thing and take a short walk on a long pier. LOL

Finland and Sweden ?

[NamPikToot]

but we should be focussing on knocking Putin out of the game

Only his Kremlin colleagues can do that

Plenty time to dissect later, currently the free world needs to do more to help Ukraine.

The "Free" world will not get involved militarily unless Putin makes incursions on NATO partners or he commits atrocities so bad, in the civilian space, it cannot help but get involved - Putin would love NATO involvement as it will justify his actions.

[helge]

If you want to apply that logic, then let's talk about Königsberg. It was founded by the Teutonic knights in 1255 it was always German until the Russians took it after WW2.

There are no longer any teutonics or germans there, and in a few years there won't even be any germans alive, who was born there.

Are you ready to redraw the entire European continent? Your argument is hollow.

It could be a great thread.

I'm all for redrawing borders, if we need them. They are only geography.

Let's be nations instead of states.


And let Texas secede


But all that for another day

[helge]

Did you watch the video and are there any points being made in it that you disagree with?

I didn't and don't intend to. There is nothing that can justify this criminal invasion and the atrocities that are being committed.

Did he talk about "justifying" ?

Understandable a lot of people are wearing blinders these days, but there will be a time in the future when Ukraine's halo will fade.

I heard today that Zelenskij more or less demanded a EU membership, because they "deserved" it.

There is no way that the most corrupt country in Europe(9th in the world) is being let in...for years.


But it's not the time to tell them that....apparently.

[Buckaroo Banzai]

If you want to apply that logic, then let's talk about Königsberg. It was founded by the Teutonic knights in 1255 it was always German until the Russians took it after WW2. Are you ready to redraw the entire European continent? Your argument is hollow.

Not at all ,
I will admit I am not as familiar with theKönigsberg as much as I am with the Ukraine region , ( my fathers side if the family originated from Odessa which had a sizable Greek population and was the seed of the Greek revolution of independence of 1821)
Königsberg was seeded to the soviets by the allied forces under the Potsdam Agreement between the UK, US, and USSR, it was separated from Germany under duress ,
if Germany desires it back and had the power to take it, it would have as much claim to it as the Russians have with Crimea.
From what I read the Russians annexed the the region in 1945 the city renamed all the Germans expelled, and replaced by Russians, so reacquisition of the region and re-integration in to Germany would be tricky at best But as I said if Germany had the desire and power to take it back it would have a legitimate claim.

"Although negotiations were instigated for a return to Germany of the enclave in 2001, the current German government has indicated no interest in recovering Kaliningrad Oblast. The governments of Poland and Lithuania similarly recognize Kaliningrad as part of Russia, as does the European Union. "
Kaliningrad question - Wikipedia
So it seems that at this time they do not have the desire to take it back but who is to say that this can not change in the future.

[OhOh]

Like the battle of Britain foreign pilots in donated aircraft may help the air imbalance.They will run out of Mig trained pilots soon.If Nato reflags and flies out of Poland etc I imagine they will be attacked by Russian and Belarus AA.

NATO has plenty of planes, weaponry , how many pilots that can be deployed in E Ukraine moot? I am sure US doesn't want teh inevitable hostage tools any ejected pilots would offer.

You have not heard that Russia will terminate all who attack Russian troops.

If NATO planes utilise xxx's airfields, they, the planes and the airfields, will be destroyed. Any planes utilising the airfields or refuelled from aircraft utilising such airfields will be destroyed, the refuelled plane and the refuelling plane.

In addition, all command and control locations of the air forces involved in waging war on Russia will be destroyed. Which may be on European soil or elsewhere.

The reach of the Russian missiles, nuclear or otherwise, does not stop at Russian territorial boundaries.

Not the situation I suspect either side wants to contemplate.

[nidhogg]

^sheer bombast.

[david44]

If you want to apply that logic, then let's talk about Königsberg. It was founded by the Teutonic knights in 1255 it was always German until the Russians took it after WW2. Are you ready to redraw the entire European continent? Your argument is hollow.

Your facts are of cours \e correct , however a bit of Twangster rap

Kaliningrad Region offers Baltic manors, castles and ruins

The Old Prussians who were a Slavic not a Germanic tribe had lived in what is today Kalingrad long before the Teutons arrived , some of my ilk were there many moons ago.

Like nearby Memel/Klaipeda in Lithuanian this was a fine Baltic trading port , home to perhaps the greatest maths problem the Bridges and the logician Emanuel Kant, if we view Socal as the irrational Kvnt , Kant's critique of pure reason is like my own spelling, sans pareil.

Some of my tribe were chatlelains to the Ritterschaft the Teutonic aristos who ruled the Hansa ports from Reval /Visby and traded with Steelyard London, Riga, Amsterdam Lubeck, Gdansk etc
Today we must track the ALT right ,beware of BALT right

A rock group in Niagara have adopted the name, I think we will hear more f this Russian contolled enclave in the days to come.
Tvangeste - Wikipedia

Critique of Pure Reason - Wikipedia

Konigsberg bridge problem | mathematics | Britannica.

[david44]

have not heard that Russia will terminate all who attack Russian troops

Tell it to the Afghans and thousands of widows of Russians who died there.

It's not hard to murder defenceless women and kids . Sure Putin can Nuke Nato even US cities but I don't imagine there'll be much left of the N hemispehere if he does

Over 15,000 Soviet troops were killed in Afghanistan from 1979 until 1989. In the war, the Soviet Army also lost hundreds of aircraft, and billions worth of other military machines. Around two million Afghan men, women and children died in the war.

[Backspin]

BREAKING: Ministry of Defense Russia: “To prevent information attacks against Russia, high-precision weapons will strike at the technological facilities of the SBU and the 72nd main PSO center in Kiev.”

SBU is the security service of Ukraine. It’s basically the Ukrainian equivalent to CIA

���� ALL KYIV RESIDENTS NEAR PSO Center & any relay nodes LEAVE the area IMMEDIATELY — AIRSTRIKE IMMINENT!

Your media is not telling you !!!! RT THIS

[misskit]

I dunno. Looks as though even CNN is announcing it.

Russian military warns of strikes against facilities in Kyiv, according to statement via state media
From CNN's Nathan Hodge in Moscow


The Russian military said Tuesday it will carry out strikes against the facilities in Kyiv, warning civilians living near the areas to leave.


The Russians will target the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the 72nd Main Center for Information and Psychological Operations (PSO) in Kyiv, the Russian defense ministry said in a statement Tuesday via Russian state news agency TASS.


"In order to suppress information attacks against Russia, the technological facilities of the SBU and the 72nd main PSO center in Kyiv will be hit with high-precision weapons," the statement said, according to TASS. "We call on Ukrainian citizens attracted by Ukrainian nationalists to carry out provocations against Russia, as well as residents of Kyiv living near relay nodes leave their homes."


Speaking about the "relay nodes," CNN's Clarissa Ward said, "we understand that to mean communications towers. So large antennas, things of that nature."


"This is not a surprise in a sense that people here have been bracing themselves for an uptick in the Russian onslaught. Up until now, most attacks have really been targeting the outskirts of the city. But now it appears that things will move to the center of the capital as so many had feared," Ward said.


More background: A massive 40-mile-long Russian military convoy — made up of armored vehicles, tanks, towed artillery and other logistical vehicles — has reached the outskirts of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, according to satellite images from Maxar Technologies.


Russia has repeatedly claimed it is not hitting civilian infrastructure in Ukraine. But social media videos, photos and satellite images analyzed and geolocated by CNN confirm that on several occasions densely populated areas have been hit by Russian forces.


In the past two days, accelerated strikes on the second-largest city of Kharkiv that have struck civilians suggest Russia is shifting toward a far less-restrained bombing campaign, in contrast with its earlier attacks that were more focused on military targets.


The UN says that at least 102 civilians have been killed across the country and 304 injured, though those figures are likely to underestimate the true toll.

Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine

[david44]

Your media is not telling you !!!! RT THIS

not my media but this was on bbc news also .

Obviously if you have a direct feed from SFB do let us know.