Ukraine war mega thread

[Switch]

Since nobody will answer the question , I'll answer it myself.

Even if I believed that the US had the ethical and intl law abiding high ground ( they don't) , if a treaty guaranteeing no Nato membership for Ukraine was all that was needed to put an end to this war , then I would support that treaty.

And if you don't support that treaty , you are a war mongering piece of shit with blood on your hands.

Unadulterated nonsense. Ukraine gets to choose, not you, and certainly not Russia.

[Backspin]

Unadulterated nonsense. Ukraine gets to choose, not you, and certainly not Russia.

So you'd rather have a war in Europe than Ukraine not join Nato? Do you have any family in Europe or in the military ?

Since I am not insane, I'd rather not have a war in Europe.

[NamPikToot]

The only party that's insane in all this is that fragile little prick Putin, he's the only one making up perceived threats with which to support is massing of troops on the Ukraine border.

[Backspin]

The only party that's insane in all this is that fragile little prick Putin, he's the only one making up perceived threats with which to support is massing of troops on the Ukraine border.

So you'd rather have a war in Europe than Ukraine not join Nato.

I'd rather not have a war in Europe and Ukraine not join NATO

Even if I agreed with you that Putin was making things up and was a total prick , I'd still rather not have a war in Europe and Ukraine not join NATO

[NamPikToot]

What are you rabbiting about? Only one party is threatening war and only one party would start it. Russia is under no threat so its all down to your mate to resolve the situation, pack up and stop behaving like a throwback.

[Backspin]

What are you rabbiting about? Only one party is threatening war and only one party would start it. Russia is under no threat so its all down to your mate to resolve the situation, pack up and stop behaving like a throwback.

That's right. One party is threatening war if Ukraine joins NATO. So to prevent war is pretty simple isn't it ? Ukraine doesn't join NATO. And Russia and Ukraine can go back to the status quo of the 1991 to 2013 era.

[NamPikToot]

So Russia threatens a sovereign state and will continue to meddle in that state's affairs for how long exactly. According to you the only solution is the Finlandization of Ukraine.

[Troy]

That's right. One party is threatening war if Ukraine joins NATO.

There are no plans for Ukraine to join NATO. It is just a desire on the part of the Ukraine government to apply to join some time in the future. Russia's objection to such a proposal is just one of the demands and a pact never to join NATO would not be enough to deescalate the situation.

[Backspin]

So Russia threatens a sovereign state and will continue to meddle in that state's affairs for how long exactly. According to you the only solution is the Finlandization of Ukraine.

Oh no. Who could bare a world with the Finlandization of Ukraine ? Id rather have a ground war in Europe that threatens world war 3 and nuclear armageddon

[Troy]

^ Did you give away your toys when you were a kid so you wouldn't get beaten up?

You are not just an idiot but a weakling to boot.

[Backspin]

^ Did you give away your toys when you were a kid so you wouldn't get beaten up?

You are not just an idiot but a weakling to boot.

I am not Ukrainian. Neither are you. I'd rather not have a ground war in Europe than appease some needless demand of the non Russophone half of Ukraine that wants to join Nato.

If the only 2 choices are war in Europe or Ukraine not in Nato, any sane person will choose the latter. Ukraine wasn't in Nato from 1991 on and doesn't need to be ever.

[Loy Toy]

My first post on this thread includes a question to other members that are more educated about the history of this event.

What benefits would the people of Ukraine receive by joining NATO?

And why is Putin so against the Ukraine becoming a member?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[sabang]

Still no Russian invasion then? How are the usual suspects gonna backpedal out of this when it becomes apparent that Russia is not going to invade Ukraine, as I have been telling you all along bedwetters? May as well start preparing your excuses now- you are gonna need 'em!

And when is the anglo press etc actually going to listen to Pres Zelensky of Ukraine, STFU and stop trying to aggravate the situation? Didn't you fatuously say you were trying to help the Ukrainian people? Doubling down on lies only makes you look even more stupid.

For the more informed, intelligent readers (who in most cases do not bother posting here, quite understandably), I extol the following extremely well written article:-
Cry "Havoc!" and Let Slip the Dogs of War - Craig Murray

[Troy]

Joining NATO would give Ukraine military protection against Russian aggression. NATO members would actively send troops in to defend.

Joining NATO is also a stepping stone towards Joining the EU, which is also on the wish list.

Putin would have no chance of taking territory from UkraIne once it is a NATO member. Putin wants as much of Ukraine and its resources as he can lay his hands on.

Taking Crimea from Ukraine means there are many more Ukrainians wanting NATO protection due to obvious distrust in Russian objectives.

[sabang]

Haha, I just saw on morning TV that "February 16th has been flagged as a possible day for a Russian attack!!" Stay tuned bedwetters, and be very scared- just as they want you to be.

[Troy]

I am not Ukrainian. Neither are you. I'd rather not have a ground war in Europe than appease some needless demand of the non Russophone half of Ukraine that wants to join Nato.

If the only 2 choices are war in Europe or Ukraine not in Nato, any sane person will choose the latter. Ukraine wasn't in Nato from 1991 on and doesn't need to be ever.

Why do you think this will lead to a war in Europe? There are no treaties that oblige European nations to help defend Ukraine. If push comes to shove sanctions will be imposed not military power. Economic sanctions hurt far more without the need for unnecessary deaths.

[helge]

And why is Putin so against the Ukraine becoming a member?

And Troy forgets to mention that no sovereign state like hostile powers having bases at it's doorstep, he forgets the question of the russian population in Ukraine and Russia's clear memory of what happened last century.

Western motives and all that: Yeah well

Putin has his motives too

If he abandons the russian minority in Ukraine, he is done.

He knows it and the west knows it.

And what could happen to him, his family and his billions, if that happens?

Btw: The ukrainians should be nice to their minorities

[helge]

Russia wants Ukraine natural resource (The Zavalye mine is one of the largest graphite mines in Ukraine and in the world.) Does graphite and electric cars ring a bell?

Where do you get this from ???

There is a whole lot of graphite around the world

• Graphite mine production top countries 2020 | Statista

[sabang]

The EU recently approved a 1.2bn Euro emergency loan to Ukraine. The US, of course, gave nothing (like it's refugee policy towards the victims of it's forever wars). The place is a basket case. Why don't you just offer it to Vlad- but he still won't have it. Who in their right mind would?

[Norton]

The US, of course, gave nothing

$200 mil + in neat military stuff is something Sab.

[sabang]

Military stuff!!! yeh, somehow they manage to slip that in under the guise of 'Foreign aid'.

[helge]

The place is a basket case.

That some want them to join the EU is scary but understandable.

For the western corporations who has bought up farmland in Ukraine, there is gold at the end of the rainbow, if they can get Brussels to let them in.

We, the citizens of the EU, won't be asked, if it's a good idea.

[HuangLao]

$200 mil + in neat military stuff is something Sab.

Yeah. Ain't that civilised.
Ensuring the forever wars and the extended empire.

[sabang]

If I were Ukrainian, I would want to get on the EU gravy train too! But that don't make it so.

[Switch]

So you'd rather have a war in Europe than Ukraine not join Nato.

I'd rather not have a war in Europe and Ukraine not join NATO

Even if I agreed with you that Putin was making things up and was a total prick , I'd still rather not have a war in Europe and Ukraine not join NATO

War is Gaylord Putins only option, until after Russian elections. NATO is a defensive alliance to make bully’s like Putin think twice, before forcing other countries to bow to bow to his tyranny.

Stop inventing fake scenarios that might lead to war, because that’s exactly what msn do when they are light on reality.