Quote Originally Posted by pseudolus View Post
Quote Originally Posted by hazz
leave or stay we will have the same problems, because the root cause is our own civil servants and the politicians that control them.
Agree in part. The upper echelons of the civil service is where the real graft and corruption is hidden. There should be a mandatory list of "declared interests" for all civil servants.

Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
Would that include the 17 million British voters who voted "yes" in the 1975 referendum?
No - because people were voting on what they thought was a "trade deal" when in reality, the people posing the question knew is was about creating a United States of Europe. .
The "ever closer union" thing? That's ALWAYS been in in there. The EEC was NEVER solely a "trade deal". You are either deliberately lying or, more likely, have not bothered to learn anything about either th EEC or the EU and Britains membership of it. I remember quite clearly, although I was very young, the 1973 ascension and the 75 referendum and the trade deal aspect was unimportant for most.

At that time, less than 30 years after the end of the war, it was more about creating a united Europe that would never descend into war again.