Quote Originally Posted by hazz
leave or stay we will have the same problems, because the root cause is our own civil servants and the politicians that control them.
Agree in part. The upper echelons of the civil service is where the real graft and corruption is hidden. There should be a mandatory list of "declared interests" for all civil servants.

Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b
Would that include the 17 million British voters who voted "yes" in the 1975 referendum?
No - because people were voting on what they thought was a "trade deal" when in reality, the people posing the question knew is was about creating a United States of Europe. The 17m Yes voters can not be held responsible any more than any husband can be held responsible for, on being asked by his wife "which colour dress should I wear, Blue or Red", and responding to that with a selection to meet her wrath because what she was really asking was "Are you fucking that girl from accounts?".