Thread: The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

Originally Posted by Neo

There's always an ulterior motive, especially when the Politicians are concerned.
One good reason Cameron is sabre rattling for less EU control is the EU are trying to clamp down on UK offshore tax havens such as the British owned Cayman Islands, which incidentally is where many multinationals such as Google choose to keep their accounts.

Oh yeah, like the Labour/WMD Party and the LibDem/Tuition-Fees Party were clamouring to shut them down when they were in power.

Go on, say it "Thatcher", "Right Wing Press", "Tory", same old rubbish - do you really honestly believe that Labour and the others are any different?!

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by lom

Relieve us from the fekking whining Englishmen, the Scots and the Irish can stay as members.

That's about right. The UK has so many opt-out clauses and still moans at every turn, the main gripe seems to be the curvature of sausages and complaining about sausages needing to be filled with meat rather than offal, gristle and sinew like in the good old days

That is such a lie about what it's about, it can't go unchallenged.
The self-evident truth is that the UK signed up for an economic union, and never for a political one. Successive governments keep lying to the public to keep the UK locked in to what is ultimately an economic failure of an organisation. That's before we even get to the corruption, cronyism, expensive bureaucracy, and the self-evident false premiss of the EU being there to prevent war from happening again on the contintent. It's about culturally protestant relatively efficient northern european economies that function well being coerced into propping up culturally catholic relatively inefficient economies, and now using lower gdp eastern european economies to sustain this facade.
If you wanted it to be about economics, you would pick all the most economically efficient economies and get them to team up and set a strict, rigorous, and transparent high bar for new entrant economies to join to maintain the standards such a union was based on.
If you wanted it to be about politics, you would pick all the most subsidary liberal democracies, with the least corruption and highest standards of rule of law and human rights, and only admit those who met those standards.
If you wanted it to be about defence you'd get all the most militarily successful states to team up etc...
...but instead, we get legislation about the standardisation of food stuffs; the imperatives on weights and measures, the demands for equal welfare for foreigners as if ethnic and national identity mean nothing, are non-existent, and only apply to brown people. The EU is it's own worst enemy, for beng so consistently incompetent - even at handling it's own PR. The fact that it can't even beat the likes of so-called "right-wing morons", and "little englanders", these supposed mentally and financially under-resourced minority, is testament to the the synonymity of those two letters EU with one word: failure. Riots in collapsed economies, due to corruption; murder on the streets in national capitals after the largest memberstate's leader advocates the collapse of EU external borders... I mean, would you hire these people to decorate your house? They're fecking morons on stilts, and greedy ones at that. Do you really think you're getting you're moneys worth paying the Kinnocks £3m a year, as their oxbridge-educated Danish first-gent plummy socialist spawn is parachuted into the valleys to represent the workers with his soft pale hands? FFS, what planet do you live on?! Before we even get to it being about freedom, and the right to say no, without multiple referenda to get the right answer, or endemic corruption, it's about basic competence.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

The day the UK votes to quit the EU in toto would see the £ fall by at least 30%.

Not a bad estimate - seeing as it dropped 9% based upon the possibility of Scottish independence.

This is not an estimate; it's not even a finger in the air guess; it's just wishful thinking.
The value of the pound will be determined by the value of the UK economy post-leaving, and that will be determined by whoever is in charge and whatever decisions they are advised to make by experts they call in, and we can be a lot more confident in putting a finger in the air and guessing that it won't Camoron, or Corbinman.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Scotland would demand, and get, an immediate referendum to quit

And so they should - Britain will crumble

Surely it will slide off the the edge of the flat earth onto a turtle's back?
Scotland might demand, but whether they will get is another matter; they would probably be delayed by the general election that Camoron's resignation might precipitate, along with the likely defenestration of Corbinman that could follow Camoron's ousting. Even the SNP would play for a bigger mandate... the chance for a successful attempt to destroy Labour in Scotland would be way too tempting. Moreover, the SNP would want to be damn sure they got a clear win if they were to get a second go - no half-chances would be worth it.
Even if they did, faced with the possibility of economic oblivion, and a low chance of making the grade to be admitted into the EU; never mind the unwelcome precedent it would set for other states like Catalonia and others to attempt secession that EU states would likely resist. Too many assumptions that don't take into account the lack of diversity in the Scottish economy, and the devastation being caused by long-term oil price decline.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Britain by itself in the world would be utter shite not least because the country is host to a significant minority of welfare trash and the work ethic is pitiful.

. . . who are all busy complaining about foreigners who work and pay taxes for these scum to receive their government handouts

There are also other significant minorities who don't fall into that category; but economic necessity can drive change. It is a pretty morbid flaccid and pessimistic case to make - stay indoors because the world outside is scary.
For a lot of people that just isn't the case - so many Brits have ventured out into the big wide world beyond blighty, and beyond europe to create and build all over the world, and that is the optimistic, positive, virile case to make for breaking free of a flabby and useless EU experiment that has held us back.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

It's not really relevant what the policy actually is, it's what the perception is amongst the voters.

The EU should just give the whiners the boot . . . and let them reminisce about the glory days while these glory days are coming home to roost in the form of millions upon millions of Commonwealth and ex-colonies best and brightest going to the US and the mainland while the less than wonderful 'flooding' the the smelly isles . . .

Yup. Poles or Pakistanis . . .

Oh, so if we stay in the EU, we get nice clean white immigrants; if we leave the EU we get dirty smelly brown immigrants - is that you're argument?!
You seem to just buy into the racist fearmongering of the anti-Brexit lefty press...

The whiners are the ones who are trying to force Britain to stay so they can milk the cash cow for themselves and their friends, and so the EU can milk our economy to prop up their failed economies.
The UK can invent and create a brand new future, become a giant Singapore, a capitalist beacon of low tax and high trade, where the world comes to bank and to get qualty, design, culture, and education. Leave the scared little whiners in the EU to fight it out over who gets to pay for all their failures.
We can be creating a prosperous anglophone democratic future that resonates with our WASP heritage instead.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

The UK can invent and create a brand new future, become a giant Singapore,

The UK created Singapore. Singapore has joined ASEAN.