Thread: 9/11 was an inside job

Originally Posted by Fluke

Attas passport didnt survive though, it was never found

So, what does that prove?

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by ENT

Come on then, tell us how that passport survived that horrendous fire and explosion, how it flew out of pocket/suitcase/whatever and just landed there in the street, and, and, and.......

Tell us how the worm experiment survived the Columbia shuttle disaster, dimwit. A rocket ship exploding 40 miles above the earth.

I'll have a go at that, Colombia didn't really blow up, it fell apart on re entry. No fuel, loss of tiles, worms in a locker, locker falls from the disintegrating Columbia, re entry has been completed, locker and worms are just in free fall.
Not a hard experiment to re test, just drop some worms in a similar locker from 5 or 600 meters, terminal velocity, 40 miles or 600 meters makes no difference, that's as fast as it gets.

Don't know the result as have never thrown worms from a high place, but my guess some may live. Jim

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by Fluke

Attas passport didnt survive though, it was never found

So, what does that prove?

I wasnt trying to prove anything , I was just correcting someone who questioned how Attas passport was found intact

The possibility that 19 Muslim men accused of being the Sept. 11 hijackers were not, in fact, the hijackers, is not so extraordinary an idea as it might seem.

After seven months of non-stop declarations by U.S. government spokesmen that there exists solid proof tying 19 Muslim men to plotting the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller has now admitted quite the opposite.

That 19 Muslim men who have apparently disappeared have been named as the hijackers is not in doubt.

What is in doubt is whether those 19 men were actually plotting anything, either individually or together.

The amazing possibility remains that others carried out the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, using the identities of the 19 Muslims who have been assigned guilt in the tragedy.

In an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco, Mueller said that the purported hijackers, in his words, 'left no paper trial.' The FBI director stated flatly:

"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper - either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere - that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

In describing Mueller's evidence fiasco, Los Angeles Times reporters Erich Lichtblau and Josh Meyer, whose article was reprinted in The Washington Post on April 30, note that:

Law enforcement officials say that while they have been able to reconstruct the movements of the hijackers before the attacks - all legal except for a few speeding tickets - they have found no evidence of their actual plotting.
FBI Admits No Evidence Linking Hijackers To 911

Though its quite plausible that all the planning and plotting was done on a face to face basis and so that would leave no paper trails . The plotters know that they were possibly being monitered by security services and thus didnt want to alert them by openly discussing the plot .
Also, just because no evidence of the plot has been found, that doesnt mean that there wasn't any .

Lots of questions with no answers and just as many make little if any sense, but none of it adds meat to bone up the theory that 911 was an inside job.

The logistics of a successful DIY job would be infinitely more complex than having 19 Muslims hijack four or even 19 planes simultaneously.

Sorry, but the 'truthers' need to present - not create - far more persuasive 'truths' than they have.

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

You ignore confirmed statements just so you can cling onto your ridiculous theory.

I see another poster has already posted the video.

5:43 a.m. September 11, 2001: 9/11 Hijackers Check in at Portland Airport; Atta Becomes Angry with Ticket Agent Michael Tuohey.
[Source: CNN]

9/11 hijackers Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari check in at the US Airways counter at Portland International Jetport. [PORTLAND PRESS HERALD, 10/5/2001; FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, 10/5/2001] They are wearing ties and jackets. Atta checks in two bags, Alomari none. Atta is randomly selected for additional security scrutiny by the FAA’s Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS) (see (6:20 a.m.-7:48 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

What? Checked by security? They find nothing? No box cutters? Wellwell, good grief etc.

However, the only consequence is that his checked bags will be held off the plane until it is confirmed that he has boarded. [9/11 COMMISSION, 7/24/2004, PP. 1; 9/11 COMMISSION, 8/26/2004, PP. 2 pdf file; CNN, 3/3/2006] Noting that their flight is soon due to leave, the ticket agent who checks them in, Michael Tuohey, says, “You’re cutting it close.” [PORTLAND PRESS HERALD, 3/6/2005] Tuohey thinks the pair seems unusual. He notices they both have $2,500 first-class, one-way tickets. He later comments, “You don’t see many of those. ” Atta looks “like a walking corpse. He looked so angry.” In contrast, Tuohey will say, Alomari can barely speak English and has “a goofy smile, I can’t believe he knew he was going to die that day.” Tuohey will later recount, “[B]I thought they looked like two Arab terrorists [/B] Wow!!!

but then I berated myself for the stereotype and did nothing.” [PHILADELPHIA DAILY NEWS, 2/24/2005; MIRROR, 9/11/2005; CNN, 3/3/2006] Atta becomes angry when Tuohey informs him he will have to check in again in Boston. He complains that he was assured he would have a “one-step check-in.” [9/11 COMMISSION, 8/26/2004, PP. 2 pdf file; ASSOCIATED PRESS, 3/7/2005]

Tuohey will be recalled to work later in the day to speak to an FBI agent about his encounter with Atta and Alomari. He is shown video footage of them passing through the airport’s security checkpoint upstairs (see (Between 5:45 a.m. and 5:53 a.m.) September 11, 2001).

Although recognizing the two men, he notices that in the video they are no longer wearing the jackets and ties they’d had on when checking in just minutes before.

He assumes they must have taken these off and tucked them into their carry-on baggage.

He is also informed that the security camera behind his own desk, which should have captured the two hijackers, has in fact been out of order for some time. [PORTLAND PRESS HERALD, 3/6/2005; CNN, 3/3/2006]

You call that reliable evidence harry?

Are you saying he doesn't exist? Or that he's lying?

Originally Posted by leemo

Lots of questions with no answers and just as many make little if any sense, but none of it adds meat to bone up the theory that 911 was an inside job.

The logistics of a successful DIY job would be infinitely more complex than having 19 Muslims hijack four or even 19 planes simultaneously.

Sorry, but the 'truthers' need to present - not create - far more persuasive 'truths' than they have.

Exactly, all of the evidence supports what happened. As I said earlier, it's impossible to tell if Bush or anyone else hadn't put it together before it happened and kept schtum, but you're never going to find that out, any more than you're going to find out who killed Kennedy.

Originally Posted by Fluke

Originally Posted by ENT

^^ Hey, yer red herring might enjoy the worms, but ya still can't explain how a passport survived.

Attas passport didnt survive though, it was never found

well, the FBI announced at the time that it was found

of course it wasn't there, since there was never any Atta passport in the first place

jesus, how dumb are you, fluke, even by your standard ?

Bush might have not orchestrated it since he can't even tight his shoes alone,

but some in his team might have,

however, the lies are real, and so is the cover up

but why lie if they didn't have anything to do with it ? embarrassed of their incompetence ? could be a possibility too,

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Susan Lindauer ? According to Wikipedia (and note carefully the last sentence):

And according to wiki Latin Dancer could be a flying saucer

I hope you are aware that anyone could edit the article from wiki, that you quoted

For any version listed below, click on its date to view it. For more help, see Help:Page history and Help:Edit summary.
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^ Use wiki for information on Justin Bieber's last album, but never concerning controversial subjects such as politics or King Willy's sexuality

Then there's the report that Giuliani pointed to building 7 where his command centre was and told a fire chief to 'pull it'. It came down as would a building that had been prepared for demolition over several weeks.

By coincidence, perhaps, he was having breakfast near to Liverpool Station in London when the underground and bus bombs went off on 7 July 2005. One was very close to the hotel. The official story about that bombing incident is fraught with inconsistencies too. The security forces were out practicing for such and incident, just like on the morning of 9/11. A debit card said to belong to one of the suicide bombers was found undamaged several carriages away. A hole blown in the floor of a carriage had the jagged edges pointed upwards. Perhaps someone was given advice from a person with experience of false flag atrocities.

The official story about 9/11 has not stood up to thorough scrutiny by independent researchers, despite attempts to discredit that research with falsified images on You Tube.

Remember that bin Laden and several of today's leaders of Al Qaeda were CIA assets during the Mujahideen fight with the Russians. The only planes in the air after the attacks in NY were Air Force one and those whisking bin Laden family members out of the country. They had been visitors at the Bush family ranch at some time earlier. Have you noticed that the US, run by the CIA in such matters, is feeding material support to the Muslim extremists in Syria?

Some people need to open their minds to the possibility that governments tell lies. Those who are prepared to sacrifice the lives of their own servicemen and women and foreign nationals may well be prepared to do the same at home if it suits their intentions.

Originally Posted by Fluke

Atta

Attaboy !

Originally Posted by leemo

The logistics of a successful DIY job would be infinitely more complex than having 19 Muslims hijack four or even 19 planes simultaneously.

And by your own logic, the attack by the 19 would be way easier, if someone turned a blind eye

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Are you saying he doesn't exist? Or that he's lying?

Sadly, he doesn't exist.

AA employee Michael Tuohey, who purportedly checked in Atta on 911, later commits suicide,
The female ticket agent in Boston who purportedly checked Atta in,also committed suicide.

-----

Point Video-1: The Alleged Security Videos of Mohamed Atta during a
Mysterious Trip to Portland, Maine, September 10-11, 2001

Introduction

As explained in Point H-1, “Mohamed Atta’s Mysterious Trip to Portland” (which provides evidence that this trip was fabricated), The 9/11 Commission Report says that Atta and fellow al-Qaeda operative Abdul Aziz al-Omari drove a rented car from Boston to Portland (Maine) on September 10, stayed overnight, and the next morning took a commuter flight back to Boston, where they boarded American Airlines Flight 11, which they had planned to hijack and fly into the World Trade Center.

Given the ubiquity of surveillance cameras in many commercial establishments and at airport check-in counters, lounges, security checkpoints, boarding gates, and duty-free shops, we would expect that the presence of Atta and al-Omari in Portland would have been recorded by many cameras.

And indeed, according to the official account, stops made by Atta and al-Omari were videotaped at various places, including a gas station and a Wal-Mart on the evening of September 10, and the Portland Jetport (Portland International Airport), from which they allegedly departed September 11.

The Official Accounts and The Best Evidence for these stops is presented in three sections below.

Official Account #1

Nineteen Muslim hijackers boarded four domestic passenger airliners on 9/11 and crashed three of them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

On the morning of September 11, two of these hijackers, Mohamed Atta and Abdul al-Omari, boarded American 11 at Boston’s Logan Airport after having taken a commuter flight to Boston from Portland, Maine. Although these men had already been in Boston on September 10, they drove a rented car to Portland, where they stayed overnight.The next morning, they drove to the Portland Jetport, where they boarded a 6:00 AM commuter flight to Boston.

Several surveillance cameras caught the men on videotape.

Surveillance Camera I: Jetport Gas Station Images, Evening, September 10

An FBI Press Release dated October 5, 2001, reported that on the evening of September 10, 2001, “Atta and Al-Omari were at [the] Jetport Gas Station, 446 Western, Avenue, South Portland, Maine. Atta was wearing a half dark, half light colored shirt with light colored slacks.”

The press release indicates that the FBI had seven images that were captured by a surveillance camera at the gas station.



The Best Evidence #1

Surveillance Camera I: Jetport Gas Station Images, Evening, September 10

There are two serious problems with the seven images from the Jetport gas station.

First, an examination shows that they bear the word “MON,” indicating “Monday,” which is consistent with the official account, because September 11 fell on a Tuesday.

However, an image discovered in the evidence presented by the FBI in 2006 for the Moussaoui Trial prosecution, provides reason to question the authenticity of these videos: Exhibit FO07011 is a full-size version of an image identical to the right-hand image in the top row on the FBI Press Release.

The original, un-cropped photo from the surveillance camera shows the date to be 11-10-01.
This date could be read as November 10, 2001 (which fell on a Saturday), or October 11, 2001 (which fell on a Thursday). Either way, this image does not support the official account, according to which Atta and al-Omari were in Portland on September 10 and 11, 2001.

The second problem is that the video was stamped “8:28 PM,” which does not match the FBI timeline, according to which Atta and al-Omari were at the Jetport station on September 10 at 9:15 PM.

One could reply that perhaps the camera was mis-set (a not uncommon problem). However, that would be speculation.
In any case, the material provided to the Moussaoui trial by the FBI does not support the official account.


Conclusion #1: Jetport Gas Station

Because the un-cropped image supposedly originating from the Jetport Gas station bore the wrong date and its time-stamp differs by 37 minutes from the FBI’s timeline, this image does nothing to support the claim that Atta and al-Omari were in Portland the evening of September 10, 2001.

Official Account #2

Surveillance Camera II: Atta at a Wal-Mart near Portland, Maine, 9:22 PM, September 10, 2001

According to Wal-Mart security camera images, Mohamed Atta visited a Wal-Mart near Portland (Maine) for 20 minutes on the evening of September 10, 2001, at 9:22 PM.

The Best Evidence #2

Surveillance Camera II: Atta at a Wal-Mart near Portland 9:22 PM, September 10, 2001

There are nine images allegedly provided by Wal-Mart security cameras: the first six bear no time/date stamp, showing only the word ENTRANCE. The last three bear only the word 0/X and a time of 21:39 (9:39 PM)



Conclusion #2: Wal-Mart

There is nothing in this purported visual evidence to support the FBI claim that:

the video originated from Wal-Mart,
Atta either entered or left Wal-Mart at 9:22,
Atta stayed for 20 minutes,
or that he was even at Wal-Mart at all.



Official Account #3

The FBI Press Release of October 5, 2001 also produced four images of Atta and al-Omari going through the security check at the Portland Jetport early on the morning of September 11, along with other security camera images documenting their presence in Portland.



The Best Evidence #3

There are two serious problems with this video evidence:

First. Each of the four images bears not just one time-stamp, which is standard in the industry,but two time-stamps:[/COLOR][/B] 5:45 AM and 5:53 AM. The FBI website’s caption below these images – which was published in October, 2001 – indicates that they were created at 5:45 AM.

If that was the correct time, why would the photos also contain a stamp in the regular position for time-stamps at the bottom of the frame indicating that they were taken 8 minutes later at 5:53:41 (which was only 6 minutes before the flight was to leave)?

In a newspaper article of September 20, 2001, the earlier time of 5:45 AM was stamped in the middle of the published image, but the 5:53 AM time, which in October appeared in the regular time-stamp position at the bottom of the image, was cropped out. And yet an exhibit of the same image presented by the FBI to the Moussaoui Trial in 2006 shows the 5:53 AM time.



[B]Second, [/B] The four images show Atta and al-Omari wearing open-necked shirts and not wearing or even visibly carrying ties and jackets.15 However, according to check-in agent Michael Tuohey, the men he identified as Atta and al-Omari had moments earlier been wearing jackets and ties.

According to Tuohey, the men had arrived so late that he was afraid that they would miss the flight.

Tuohey added that Atta started demanding boarding passes for the second flight (American 11), to which Tuohey replied: “Mr. Atta, if you don’t go now, you will miss your plane.”

If Atta was the ringleader for the hijacking operation and was to pilot AA 11 after it was taken over, the whole, long-planned operation would have needed to be canceled if he did not get to Boston on this flight.

If Atta and al-Omari were so late they were in danger of missing the flight, is it likely that, although they may have needed to take off their jackets to go through screening, they would also have taken extra time to remove their ties and place both inside their bags?

The fact that the video images do not correspond to Tuohey’s description, therefore, counts against the authenticity of these images.


Conclusion #3: Portland Airport

The four images do not provide credible evidence of the claim that Atta and al-Omari flew out of Portland, for two reasons:

Although the Portland Jetport would have had security surveillance cameras at check-in counters,18 security checkpoints, and boarding gates, the only purported Jetport images of Atta and al-Omari released by the FBI were at the security check-point.

These images had two different time-stamps, instead of the industry standard of one; and the attire of Atta and al-Omari did not fit the description givenby the check-in agent shortly before.




Summary Conclusion

Given the weak support for the authenticity of these three sets of security camera images, so weak as to suggest that they were fabricated, they – in conjunction with Point H-1 (“Mohamed Atta’s Mysterious Trip to Portland”) – raise compelling reasons to doubt the entire story about Atta being in Portland and taking a commuter flight to Boston.

Excerpts from;
Point Video-1: The Alleged Security Videos of Mohamed Atta during a Mysterious Trip to Portland, Maine, September 10-11, 2001 | Consensus 911


References for Point Video-1

1. The 9/11 Commission Report, 253.

2. FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, “Statement for the Record,” Joint Intelligence Committee Inquiry, 26 September 2002.

3. The 9/11 Commission Report, 1, 253.

4. FBI National Press Office, “Boston Division Seeks Assistance,” Washington DC, October 4, 2001. Note that the FBI mis-named the Jet-Tech gas station as the Jetport Gas Station.

5.Rowland Morgan, Voices, pre-publication manuscript, 2008, pp. 91-92 (available from author).

6. United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui, Prosecution Trial Exhibits, Exhibit Number FO07011: Security camera photo from Jet Tech gas station, Portland, Maine.

7. FBI National Press Office, “Boston Division Seeks Assistance,” Washington DC, October 5, 2001.

8. “9:22 p.m.: Atta was at Wal-Mart, 451 Payne Road, Scarborough, Maine, for approximately 20 minutes.“

9. Ibid.

10. FBI National Press Office, “Boston Division Seeks Assistance,” Washington DC, October 5, 2001.

11. Ibid.

12. Adding the earlier 5:45 AM time in its strange position in the middle of the frame, thereby obscuring the image, would have allowed the men sufficient time (15 minutes instead of six minutes) to board the plane before it took off on time at 6:00 AM.

13. “Tape Shows Terror Suspects at Airport,” Sun Journal, Leviston, Maine, September 20, 2001.

14. United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui, Prosecution Trial Exhibits, Exhibit Number FO07021, “Still from a security camera at the Portland airport security checkpoint on September 11, 2001 at 05:53:37 showing Mohamed Atta”. The other three image exhibits FO07022, FO07023, and FO07024, are also available.

15. FBI National Press Office, “Boston Division Seeks Assistance,” Washington DC, October 5, 2001.

16. Mel Allen, “5 Years after 9/11: Former Portland Ticket Agent Mike Tuohey Is Still Haunted by His Meeting with Mohamed Atta,” Yankee, 26 September 2006.

17. Ibid.

18. “Tuohey asked about the security camera behind his counter position, noting it would have caught the men’s picture as they dealt with him. But he was told that camera was broken and had been out of service for some time.” David Hench, “TICKET AGENT HAUNTED BY BRUSH WITH 9/11 HIJACKERS,” Portland Press Herald, March 6, 2005.

The time stamps in question above.(Point "Best evidence 3")

Then there are the alleged mobile 'phone calls from the planes whilst at altitude. In 2001 few calls could reach ground stations, especially if many people on a plane were calling at the same time. A curious number of the calls not only reached the recipient but were recorded.

Researchers have pointed to vice morphing equipment as used by the CIA and suggested that the calls were hoaxes. One 'caller' made a big mistake by asking to speak to a close relative using both the person's first and last name.

Voice changer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Bush might have not orchestrated it since he can't even tight his shoes alone,

but some in his team might have,

however, the lies are real, and so is the cover up

but why lie if they didn't have anything to do with it ? embarrassed of their incompetence ? could be a possibility too,

As you say, embarrassed at their incompetence, mismanagement, confusion, administrative panic, lies or any combo of many other things, but even granting all of that and more does not add up to anything near a DIY job.

The onus is with the 'truthers' to provide truths that amount to not just a cover up, which may perhaps be to diminish the effects of high level Saudi involvement, but one that's covering specifically for a Bush admin that planned, designed and executed the worst terror attack on American soil in history.

Get real, fellas, and stop making bigger fools of yourselves than you have to date.

The proof for no plane at the Pentagon is in the seismic records of the day.

No plane hit the Pentagon, nor the ground in front of it.

The aircraft that was shot down over Shanksville Ohio, as reported by Chenney was also recorded when it hit the ground, as stated by by Palisades Observatory when their seismographs picked up the shock wave.

The same seismography also picked up the the aircraft impacts on the twin towers AND the multiple explosions in the towers PLUS the explosions at WTC7.

The three WTC buildings' collapses were also recorded along with the multiple explosions heard and witnessed by ordinary civilians and firemen.

Originally Posted by Morden

Then there are the alleged mobile 'phone calls from the planes whilst at altitude. In 2001 few calls could reach ground stations, especially if many people on a plane were calling at the same time. A curious number of the calls not only reached the recipient but were recorded.

Researchers have pointed to vice morphing equipment as used by the CIA and suggested that the calls were hoaxes. One 'caller' made a big mistake by asking to speak to a close relative using both the person's first and last name.

Voice changer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's easier to consider a conspiracy that discredits the fact that the terrorist got us on our home soil. All the conspiracies do is take the steam out of the martyrdom of those involved so for that they serve a useful purpose but nothing more.

Why was this fire crew at the Pentagon before the explosion and fire?

And why did the Pentagon clock stop at 9:32 am, not 9:38 am?

At 9:38 a.m. on September 11, only one fire crew, Foam 161 of the Fort Myer Fire Department, knew the exact location of the crash site. Captain Dennis Gilroy and his team were already on station at the Pentagon when Flight #77 slammed into it, just beyond the heliport.

Foam 161 caught fire and suffered a flat tire from flying debris. Firefighters Mark Skipper and Alan Wallace were outside the vehicle at impact and received burns and lacerations.

Recovering from the initial shock, they began helping victims climb out of the Pentagon’s first floor windows. Captain Gilroy called the Fort Myer Fire Department, reporting for the first time the actual location of the crash.
http://www.arlingtonva.us/Department...ter_report.pdf

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Originally Posted by Morden

Then there are the alleged mobile 'phone calls from the planes whilst at altitude. In 2001 few calls could reach ground stations, especially if many people on a plane were calling at the same time. A curious number of the calls not only reached the recipient but were recorded.

Researchers have pointed to vice morphing equipment as used by the CIA and suggested that the calls were hoaxes. One 'caller' made a big mistake by asking to speak to a close relative using both the person's first and last name.

Voice changer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's easier to consider a conspiracy that discredits the fact that the terrorist got us on our home soil. All the conspiracies do is take the steam out of the martyrdom of those involved so for that they serve a useful purpose but nothing more.

My comment about voice morphing is based on independent research that I read.

The possibility that the attack was home produced or directed makes the victims more martyrs, if that's the right word. Remember that around 40% of the victims were not American and some were Muslim. Americans tend to forget that.

Often the word 'conspiracy' is used by closed minds to avoid considering what is unpalatable to them.

Originally Posted by Morden

Remember that around 40% of the victims were not American and some were Muslim. Americans tend to forget that.

Bull crap. 372 non-Americans were killed. 12% of the total.;