Thread: Rubber trees 101

Originally Posted by piwanoi

you can tap in the full moon at a certain lucky day but sadly the end result is just the same ,ain't that right Itnt

Well piwanoi, some folks are willing to take 15 baht a kilo it seems to survive...adding to the already over stocked rubber pile. Nothing like killing yourself off by tapping a already dead industry.

Not started cutting the rubber trees here yet...but it will come sooner or later as the reality of rice prices fail to climb, rubber continues to fall, taro roots dumps due to over supply, over valued Baht, government interference in price setting, and lastly low costs on foreign produced commodities.

Thailand's economy is in a state of "deflation," like it or not. The public is knowledgeable and is cutting back on purchases...forced to. All real industry is owned by the 1% and they are not going to give up their strangle hold on Thailand. That's pretty apparent by the current political conundrum.

I was recently offered 4 rai of producing rubber trees at 125,000/rai. Glad I didn't buy it. Of course I could have cut and sold then with the empty land near the main roadway, divided it up into lots for private buyers?

Itnt I suppose its safe to say that some might come to the conclusion that in reading our posts that some how we are gloating at the rubber farmers sad demise ,any thing but is the case ,all we are doing is laying it on the line that maybe down to over production and other various factors like the Worlds depression and the low price of oil the Klondyke days of rubber are far behind us , this non elected administration now wants to fell 350,000 rubber tree's a year with a one off payment of 21,000 a rai ,in my view far better that than keep paying over the odds for rubber and stockpiling it until the cows come home ,as to how much the rice scheme has lost in 100s of billions is open to debate ,but in essence no one will ever know the truth , the truth which sadly is often known as pessimism simply cos no fucker out there wants to hear it ,and ain't that just the truth ?

Farmers that planted rubber trees post Aug 2000 must have been fcuking stupid. The warning was there for all to see.

Aug. 1— Thailand, the world's top producer of natural rubber, plans to destroy more than 2 percent of its rubber trees annually as efforts at stockpiling have failed to bolster prices from near 30-year lows, officials said. The government plans to start logging on an annual 47,000 hectares of plantations by the end of this year and shift farmers to planting other crops. With 1.98 million hectares under cultivation, and 400 trees a hectare, Thailand produces a third of the world's natural rubber.
''This augurs well for rubber prices -- you'll see supply drop a lot,'' said Tan Swee Hua, managing director at Getahindus, a rubber-trading company in Malaysia. Malaysia has often tried to reduce the rubber supply, only to see cuts in its supply offset by increased output by Thailand and Indonesia, he added.
Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia, which produce 85 percent of the world's rubber, agreed this month to restrict supply to help farmers get prices that can sustain cultivation.
Thailand's first concerted effort to cut trees could bolster rubber prices and hurt tire makers, analysts said. The global tire industry buys $6.8 billion worth of natural rubber a year, with the top eight makers, including the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, buying 45 percent of the world supply.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/02/bu...roy-trees.html

Now 2015 and what is Thailand proposing to do with it's rubber tree surplus?

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Hey Guzzi ,I don't know were you originate from, but if you are from the UK you may remember the signs they used to post in fish and chip shops ,like due to months of inclement weather potatoes have gone up in price so sadly we have to raise the price of chips ,but when there was a glut of spuds the price of chips stayed as they was and never went down

# Yeah, from England.
# Not only 'taties, cod as well. And petrol. And...

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Guzzi in his post 1099 10 wheeler's are going past his place loaded with sawn down rubber tree's on a regular basis

I think him mistaken in that those trucks are full of Eucalyptus trees on their way to 'Double A', or the likes, pulping mills.

I can differentiate between Eucalyptus and rubber trees. 5 years ago, people were getting top dollar (20-50k per rai) for old rubber trees cut down,sold for lumber to the furniture trade. I don't understand why this trade has gone, replaced by everyone selling trees to pulping paper mills aka Double A. Perhaps it's because they are 6-7-8 year old trees that look like my trees were when they were 5 years old, ie bottle of beer diameter.

Originally Posted by piwanoi

I suppose its safe to say that some might come to the conclusion that in reading our posts that some how we are gloating at the r

Far from it piwanoi, as you say. Sad days for Thai farmers all around.

Originally Posted by piwanoi

with a one off payment of 21,000 a rai

I would keep my trees. 21 K is nothing for mature trees. If I just planted new growth I might think about it and perhaps venture into "coco trees." Anyone tried that yet? Wife thought that one up. Haven't investigated that thought yet.

Originally Posted by thaiguzzi

I don't understand why this trade has gone,

Due to the same principles of over supply and cheaper imports from China and elsewhere. China will do anything to keep market share even losses on sales.

China is starting to monopolize the rubber industry. Don't figure they are going to give up anything to rubber growers. They have them right where they wanted them, buyer's market.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Farmers that planted rubber trees post Aug 2000 must have been fcuking stupid. The warning was there for all to see.

Aug. 1— Thailand, the world's top producer of natural rubber, plans to destroy more than 2 percent of its rubber trees annually as efforts at stockpiling have failed to bolster prices from near 30-year lows, officials said. The government plans to start logging on an annual 47,000 hectares of plantations by the end of this year and shift farmers to planting other crops. With 1.98 million hectares under cultivation, and 400 trees a hectare, Thailand produces a third of the world's natural rubber.
''This augurs well for rubber prices -- you'll see supply drop a lot,'' said Tan Swee Hua, managing director at Getahindus, a rubber-trading company in Malaysia. Malaysia has often tried to reduce the rubber supply, only to see cuts in its supply offset by increased output by Thailand and Indonesia, he added.
Thailand, Indonesia and Malaysia, which produce 85 percent of the world's rubber, agreed this month to restrict supply to help farmers get prices that can sustain cultivation.
Thailand's first concerted effort to cut trees could bolster rubber prices and hurt tire makers, analysts said. The global tire industry buys $6.8 billion worth of natural rubber a year, with the top eight makers, including the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company, buying 45 percent of the world supply.

Thailand Rubber Industry to Destroy Trees - NYTimes.com

Now 2015 and what is Thailand proposing to do with it's rubber tree surplus?

Yeah Well, at the time many thought that the ill fated rice scheme was a good idea , including quite a few members on this forum , where are they now with their grandious ideas? the threads are still open , IMHO whenever the Chinese get involved in any business it spells doom for their competitors

Originally Posted by OhOh

If you mean Cocoa trees, the fruit/pods to make chocolate, a local farmer,

Yes, where in Thailand? Altitude required? Not old enough for harvesting yet? How many years til productive? You've seen this? I'm interested...

^ Quite few articles on growing cocoa in Thailand, this just being one of them ,let Google be your friend Factfish Cocoa beans, production quantity for Thailand

^Ok, I was seeking Oh,oh's personal experience piwanoi. Thanks I'll read the article.

Loads of video's on youtube

^Nice article and data on fact fish. Ranked 38th but shows no export. There has to be a developing market both locally and internationally. Vid not to bad either.

The farming aspect looks simple enough and not stoop labor in harvesting. Cleaning out and gathering the beans is simple enough...I suppose you could air dry in the sun like the taro root.

Finding a market shouldn't be to difficult if you have enough product.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by OhOh

If you mean Cocoa trees, the fruit/pods to make chocolate, a local farmer,

Yes, where in Thailand? Altitude required? Not old enough for harvesting yet? How many years til productive? You've seen this? I'm interested...

They do quite well here.
Suitable and flexible climates.

I see a glut on the horizon.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

They do quite well here. Suitable and flexible climates. I see a glut on the horizon.

What location is "here?"

How's that? Glut? number 38 in the world according to stats in 2013...no market here? Yet....

A little bit more info on the cocoa trade Cocoa beans - Daily Price - Commodity Prices - Price Charts, Data, and News - IndexMundi

According to this article world demand for chocolate will increase by 25% in a few years Cocoa & history and how to grow cacao trees with dealers in Thailand

Originally Posted by OhOh

I am not sure where he intends to sell the Cocoa, I will investigate further.

Excellent report. Where did he get his seedlings?

pwanoi, excellent sites both. I've bookmarked each, already had the commodity stats file. Perhaps my best resource tool.

From the read it appears to be a perfect inbetween crop planting for Rubber tree farmers...lots of shade. I think its a natural. No downside that I can see once the client base is established.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by OhOh

If you mean Cocoa trees, the fruit/pods to make chocolate, a local farmer,

Yes, where in Thailand? Altitude required? Not old enough for harvesting yet? How many years til productive? You've seen this? I'm interested...

His Coffee plus Cocoa farm is close to Borai, in Trat province, close to the Cambodian border. His coffee is Robustan so no "altitude/temp" problems with that. As I say his Cocoa is a new crop, 1st year in farm so the plants are maybe 24 months old, so no growth or yield data is yet available. Having said that if you look at the requirements for both it's basically a Tropical environment required.

Visually, to the non expert farmer , the young Cocoa trees are growing at the same rate and just as healthy looking as the young coffee trees planted at the same time.

I am not sure where he intends to sell the Cocoa, I will investigate further.

Nice briefing - yet, Cocao is much more flexible to where it can sustain itself within a tropical zone.....whereas coffee [depending on the hybrid type] obviously needs altitude to flourish.

Cocao, like coffee and tea, will take on the distinct characteristics of it's immediate environment - soil, moisture, altitude, latitude, temp, etc. The reasons why you'll find a true respective difference in chocolate as one will find in coffee and tea.

It would be ludicrous to sell off rubber plantations, even when the price is low - and it is low because of the low price of oil.

I have a buyer from Shanghai, though an old colleague who brought me in for my expertise, wanting to buy up rubber like it's going out of fashion. Can't buy it here for export because it is a restricted export item like oil, edible oil, sugar and rice.

Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle

How's that improve product price? Glut is glut OkrRkr...

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Stick with it, nurture your trees - got to a d3 system for a while and alter your tapping techniques like p1-4 and sharper cutting angle

How's that improve product price? Glut is glut OkrRkr...

Yep Itnt, the way I see it if you improve your tapping process all you are achieving is adding to the problem of over production

^Plant some Cacao inbetween and in three years you've doubled your money.

Originally Posted by ltnt

^Plant some Cacao inbetween and in three years you've doubled your money.

Hey Itnt , the only thing I'm cultivating is two trees behind our house ,one Mango and 1 lemon , I've been looking for some money tree seeds (Farangus bigpocketus ) for the last 10 years or so ,so far with no success