Thread: Rubber trees 101

^To bad. Hate to see that.

Originally Posted by ltnt

^To bad. Hate to see that.

It's hard to sell something that you built from the ground up, but reality is I'm paying taxes for an idle factory and will be for years or forever to come.

Have had offers before, some rubber related, others land [industrial] use, so thought stick it up and see what happens.
Main problem is getting a true valuation, as legal rubber processing factories don't come up for sale often or ever.

I'm not really a businessman, so bank loans and contracted exports are not what I know, fist full of cash looks good right now.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

It's hard to sell something that you built from the ground up

For sure it hurts. I sold a business years ago that was going crazy in just a short time of opening. I was really happy, fully occupied and the business was growing faster than I could keep up with.

The Ex was jealous and said I needed to sell it and get a real job. What! She worked downtown L.A. and commuted every work day. I stayed at the beach area and worked my own hours and took on clients as I wished. I previously worked the 9-5 stuff, but I made more money doing my own business.

I sold out due to pressures from the wife and her family. They thought the business I was in was simply a "fling." I should have kept the business and sold the ex then and there.

A legal rubber factory has got to be worth some money? Future value?

For the life in me I cannot comprehend why any one working abroad on a good salary or retired on a good pension , should want to come here(as an Alien) and sink his hard earned money into a business/land which he can never legally own, my deepest apologies but I just have to piss my pants laughing

itnt, not really a future value thing, rubber price has little to do with the profits, high or low prices mean you buy latex or cup cheaper, it's a value adding process.
What I don't have now is the cash to buy in volumes big enough to get over costs and into the profit area.

As long as the prices are stable you can work out true costs, say you buy liquid latex at 30 B a kilo, 10 B over dry cup price. Process it into RSS and sell at 50 B a kilo, 20 B profit minus costs.
Costs are legal workers, tax and 15% VAT, electricity etc, as things stand could do 40 M/T a month.
That's say $40,000 US in latex costs sitting in a shed waiting to be sold, plus the other costs and you need to be producing the next months sale while waiting to be paid last months money.
All starts to add up, figure I would need about $100,000 US up front and reserves of cash encase of problems.

2009 I had a shed full of rubber, one day $5 dollars a kilo, next $1, never recovered from the loss.
Money makes money, if you haven't got any you can't make any, that's just life.

I haven't really lost out, the land value has gone through the roof and this year the road out front is to be made into a 4 lane highway.
Rubber plantations will continue to produce a steady income, but a load of cash in hand could be put to better use than leaving an idle factory.

Up to Buddha. Jim

I should have come back 45 year ago for just that purpose Piwi. Remember Jim Thompson? Not all foreign business ventures end in failure as you picture them. Loads of really successful foreign businesses here, just the successful ones are pretty well cashed up to begin with. Some are simply "lucky." All have to work hard to be successful and Jim is one man who fits this criteria in every aspect of hard work, great aspirations and realistic approach to life and work.

Lots here like to take the piss on people, but seldom impress anybody with their opinions.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

figure I would need about $100,000 US up front and reserves of cash encase of problems.

Your wife was gong to the bank last week? Not easy that debt? If you sold the factory I suppose if and when the rubber rebounds, you could do it again. Seems if someone's looking to buy, logically speaking, they must have loads of cash or have a different picture of the rubber market?

Originally Posted by piwanoi

For the life in me I cannot comprehend why any one working abroad on a good salary or retired on a good pension , should want to come here(as an Alien) and sink his hard earned money into a business/land which he can never legally own, my deepest apologies but I just have to piss my pants laughing

Bit black and white there, people can and do have rights as an alien, BOI companies can own/control land legally.
Farangs can own 49% of a company that owns land, legally. it's the people who come here with no plan, no idea and get roped into the no problem, no one cares tale.

Our company was set up through and still comes under the SME board, not all doom and gloom. Jim

Originally Posted by ltnt

I should have come back 45 year ago for just that purpose Piwi. Remember Jim Thompson? Not all foreign business ventures end in failure as you picture them. Loads of really successful foreign businesses here, just the successful ones are pretty well cashed up to begin with. Some are simply "lucky." All have to work hard to be successful and Jim is one man who fits this criteria in every aspect of hard work, great aspirations and realistic approach to life and work.

Lots here like to take the piss on people, but seldom impress anybody with their opinions.

Where oh where did I ever say they all end in Failure ? you are living in fantasy land ,just the same as you said not one Thai farmer had a bad word to say about Thaksin's rice pledgeing scheme when 9 commited suicide and there was whole sale farmers insurrection when many had not been paid for their produce for months ,your grip on the truth is extremely tenuous ,whatever any farang does with his hard earned money is up to him , but I could earn a grand a week sterling 15 years ago so WTF should I come here and work for hit and miss peanuts and buy into some thing that will never be mine

Originally Posted by ltnt

Originally Posted by jamescollister

figure I would need about $100,000 US up front and reserves of cash encase of problems.

Your wife was gong to the bank last week? Not easy that debt? If you sold the factory I suppose if and when the rubber rebounds, you could do it again. Seems if someone's looking to buy, logically speaking, they must have loads of cash or have a different picture of the rubber market?

That's a no, can't do it again, they no longer issue open rubber processing licenses, ASEAN put a stop to them, as they feared local rubber companies could not compete in an open market.

I just got here at the right time, no real roads, very little electricity, no phones, no rubber, every thing was at bargain basement prices.
Then the rubber flowed and money was everywhere, people who never had money were buying new cars, building new homes.
Strange in some ways, seems this area of the land border was marked for development, speculators moved in, prices climbed and have not stopped.

In the nearest town, Buntharik there was not one motel 10 years ago, now must be over 20 small resort type places and building continues at a pace.
Sort of lost it's magic as a unknown unseen area, can't stop progress I guess.

Originally Posted by ltnt

I should have come back 45 year ago for just that purpose Piwi. Remember Jim Thompson? Not all foreign business ventures end in failure as you picture them. Loads of really successful foreign businesses here, just the successful ones are pretty well cashed up to begin with. Some are simply "lucky." All have to work hard to be successful and Jim is one man who fits this criteria in every aspect of hard work, great aspirations and realistic approach to life and work.

Lots here like to take the piss on people, but seldom impress anybody with their opinions.

Before you start frothing at the mouth coming out with your usual factless nonsense I suggest you read posts 977 and 978 and then read Jims reply to them ,I have no financial problems whatsoever after pulling my tripes out for 40 years along with a pension ,why oh why should I start work here for a pittance in comparison to what I could earn back there in the UK at my age? ,

^The usual nonsensical post from you. I suppose you thrive on argument? No further reply is necessary from you.

Originally Posted by ltnt

^The usual nonsensical post from you. I suppose you thrive on argument? No further reply is necessary from you.

You made the argument posts words you attributed to me was was a total falsehood.\ I asked you the question , still waiting for your answer .

Boing boing boing....da,da,da...waa,waa,waa...

Originally Posted by ltnt

Boing boing boing....da,da,da...waa,waa,waa...

Checkmate

Originally Posted by ltnt

^To bad. Hate to see that.

Yep. Unfortunate....

Life would certainly be different if Jim, and others, were allowed to participate within a free and open market - plying their product[s] as they feel fit.

Without the [quite accepted] forced intervention of the government and assorted mafias.

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by ltnt

^To bad. Hate to see that.

Yep. Unfortunate....

Life would certainly be different if Jim, and others, were allowed to participate within a free and open market - plying their product[s] as they feel fit.

Without the [quite accepted] forced intervention of the government and assorted mafias.

Fuck all to do with the Thai Government as they do not set the price ,as for your so called trip into fiscal fantasy land the "mafia", all it is, is world wide supply and demand for a commodity ,be it rice ,rubber ,cassava or whatever , which has gone up and down since the commodities market began .

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Originally Posted by thaimeme

Originally Posted by ltnt

^To bad. Hate to see that.

Yep. Unfortunate....

Life would certainly be different if Jim, and others, were allowed to participate within a free and open market - plying their product[s] as they feel fit.

Without the [quite accepted] forced intervention of the government and assorted mafias.

Fuck all to do with the Thai Government as they do not set the price ,as for your so called trip into fiscal fantasy land the "mafia", all it is, is world wide supply and demand for a commodity ,be it rice ,rubber ,cassava or whatever , which has gone up and down since the commodities market began .

True, nothing to do with local factors, can stick the stuff in a truck, pay the 5 Baht a kilo export tax and it's gone to China, Malaysia or India.
Have no problem finding overseas buyer, they come to me looking to sell, trouble is capital up front.
Chinese running shoe manufacturer wanted 20 to 40 M/T of crepe rubber a month, they came up to visit, but like most big buyers, you deliver and they pay.
Meaning I needed about 1/4 of a million US credit from the bank, unproven business doesn't get that kind of bank credit.
Have all the licenses, permits etc that the big boys have, could go up to 100 M/Ts a month production in weeks, for say $20,000 US, few new rolling machines and a hot air drying shed.
Trouble is you need to buy the rubber, process, ship, pay export taxes up front, a lot of money out before you get your first pay day.
When we opened first, rubber was on the up, we had a radio commercial 6 times a day, were setting up local middlemen buyers, GFC happened and we were back to OZ to work, broke.
Probably a good thing in many ways, money would have changed our lives, no village, no 24/7 dad, but a few more bucks would not be missed now. Jim

I haven't posted anything here in quite a while as my life situation has changed from before so didn't have anything constructive to add. For giggles I occasionally still look at the supposed prices on rubberthai.com and as of lately there looks to be a significant spread between dry keeyang and rss3.

Problem I'm reading here is the upfront capital necessary to get into that game again.

Would it be possible Jim, rather than having to buy latex up front, to operate sort of like a processing co-op where the locals bring you their namyang for processing? You cover the upfront labor and chemical costs (not so huge) and then either give them the rss3 back (for them to sell), less X number of sheet as payment/profit?

Secondarily, they could retain ownership of product and either sell themselves or could store product short term at your place for a small fee. If you have contact with buyers, you could then act as a "selling agent" for their product, for a small fee.

Maybe further reduce OP costs if you could use some of their labor at your place with payment in sheet vs cash.

You would probably need to turn product frequently rather than store and gamble on favorable price fluctuation, but should be able reasonable maintain cash flow.

Originally Posted by glennb6

I haven't posted anything here in quite a while as my life situation has changed from before so didn't have anything constructive to add. For giggles I occasionally still look at the supposed prices on rubberthai.com and as of lately there looks to be a significant spread between dry keeyang and rss3.

Problem I'm reading here is the upfront capital necessary to get into that game again.

Would it be possible Jim, rather than having to buy latex up front, to operate sort of like a processing co-op where the locals bring you their namyang for processing? You cover the upfront labor and chemical costs (not so huge) and then either give them the rss3 back (for them to sell), less X number of sheet as payment/profit?

Secondarily, they could retain ownership of product and either sell themselves or could store product short term at your place for a small fee. If you have contact with buyers, you could then act as a "selling agent" for their product, for a small fee.

Maybe further reduce OP costs if you could use some of their labor at your place with payment in sheet vs cash.

You would probably need to turn product frequently rather than store and gamble on favorable price fluctuation, but should be able reasonable maintain cash flow.

Not in the nature of the locals to trust anyone, tried to set up a co operative auction, no one would leave their rubber over night, cash in hand or no rubber.

Though about processing rubber for others, but again no trust, they want the cash there and then, even let some process their own rubber using our machines for a trial.
Not their machines so who cares if there are stones in the latex, or the machine is shaking it's self to bits.

May get no buyers, have only advertised it for sale in the talking rubber section of Thai rubber association.
Had a few inquiries, nothing solid, as said not the sort of thing that comes on the market often. Jim

^ but the licence has got to be the big value

Originally Posted by baldrick

^ but the licence has got to be the big value

The license from the rubber board is main thing, otherwise it's just some sheds on industrial land.
Hard to value really and a limited number of buyers out there, no hurry.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

Originally Posted by baldrick

^ but the licence has got to be the big value

The license from the rubber board is main thing, otherwise it's just some sheds on industrial land.
Hard to value really and a limited number of buyers out there, no hurry.

Feeling rather positive on the factory sale, a one line ad in a Thai rubber forum and 2 interested buyers.
Even if they fall through, means there are buyers out there looking, so one day I'm thinking of looking for a job to get us through the dormant season.
Next I may be relatively rich and no worries about money in this life span.
Future is looking bright, may be a trip around the world with the wife and kids is on the cards.
Wife is dreaming of shopping in London, Paris and NY, I on the other hand will secure my beer supply.

Last sale of the season for us yesterday, 20.95 baht per kg for cup @ auction, Udon province.

Just done this season's books. 4845 more kgs than the previous season, but 82,705 less baht ! Even more interesting or rather even more to piss me off,
season 2 we pulled in a gross of 575,800 baht from 12,584 kgs, this season (4) our gross was 513,914 baht from 20,556 kgs (over 20 metric tonnes)....