Four US Hostages killed by Somali Pirates

**SEA Traveler** · 23-02-2011, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

Had the ransom been paid, they probably would have been released to induce the families of future captives to also pay ransom.

to many variables and if's..... so your suggesting encouragement to meet the demands of pirates and let them continue to hold sea travelers at hostage? hardly a policy that would stop piracy in the future.

**Davis Knowlton** · 23-02-2011, 01:43 PM

^^^Setting aside for a moment your rabid hatred of all things associated in any way with the USG, what precisely are you suggesting Bob? That governments do nothing and simply allow Somali pirates to continue to rampage unchecked, seizing ships as they please and getting millions of dollars in ransom for not killing their captives and eventually releasing the ships? Is that your solution to this problem? Do nothing? Pay the ransoms?

**FailSafe** · 23-02-2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

Is the other side any better? Obama hoped for a big political coup by staging a "daring" rescue, instead he got 4 dead Americans. The American Government and their Navy are nearly as much to blame for these deaths as the pirates. The captives were likely being kept alive for a ransom payment, which should have been a private matter between their family and the pirates, and they are dead because of politics. Had the ransom been paid, they probably would have been released to induce the families of future captives to also pay ransom. I sure their family is grateful for the assistance of their moronic manic government.

Nice 'bend me over' attitude you've got there, Bob.

Personally, I don't think ceding international waters to terrorists in the hopes that they'll actually be 'induced' to continue their behavior rather than intervening and stopping them is really the best way to go.

Kidnapping and piracy aren't 'private matters' that should be kept between the pirates and their victims (and their families)

The US government and the navy are just as much to blame for these deaths as the pirates themselves- it's really mind-boggling that you could come to that conclusion....

**BobR** · 23-02-2011, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^^^Setting aside for a moment your rabid hatred of all things associated in any way with the USG, what precisely are you suggesting Bob? That governments do nothing and simply allow Somali pirates to continue to rampage unchecked, seizing ships as they please and getting millions of dollars in ransom for not killing their captives and eventually releasing the ships? Is that your solution to this problem? Do nothing? Pay the ransoms?

Absolutely not, I'm no wimp. The Russians have been the only ones who have gone in there with the right idea; looks, acts, smells like a pirate, and has no legitimate reason to be here, kill them on the spot. The British Navy was actually catching and releasing them (I posted the Wikipedia reference on this last week.)

Even in this incident, the US Navy took 13 of them prisoners after the murders instead of killing them on the spot. They're human garbage anyway, just issue a no sail order for the affected areas other than commercial and military ships and sink anything that does not belong there.

**Mid** · 23-02-2011, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

just issue a no sail order for the affected areas other than commercial and military ships and sink anything that does not belong there.

^
shakes head

ain't yours ( America ) to declare .

**Davis Knowlton** · 23-02-2011, 02:22 PM

^^So first you're saying bend over and pay the ransom. And now you're saying nuke 'em all. Your brain process just amazes me. If this had been ANY country other than your hated United States which had unsuccessfully attempted a rescue, we wouldn't have heard a fucking peep out of you. And, BTW, the daughter issued a press statement today thanking the military personnel who put their own lives at risk to attempt to save her parents. You are really a bitter, hate-filled person, Bob.

**FailSafe** · 23-02-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

The Russians have been the only ones who have gone in there with the right idea; looks, acts, smells like a pirate, and has no legitimate reason to be here, kill them on the spot.

So you advocate the murder of suspected pirates, yet also advocate a 'hands-off' attitude for active pirates (if they manage to hijack a ship and take hostages, they should just be allowed to negotiate a ransom without any attempt at intervention)?

**BobR** · 23-02-2011, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Originally Posted by BobR

The Russians have been the only ones who have gone in there with the right idea; looks, acts, smells like a pirate, and has no legitimate reason to be here, kill them on the spot.

So you advocate the murder of suspected pirates, yet also advocate a 'hands-off' attitude for active pirates (if they manage to hijack a ship and take hostages, they should just be allowed to negotiate a ransom without any attempt at intervention)?

Do you really interpret what I've written that way? The safety of the hostages should have been the first priority, then kill every one of the Somalis at sea.

**FailSafe** · 23-02-2011, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by BobR

Do you really interpret what I've written that way? The safety of the hostages should have been the first priority, then kill every one of the Somalis at sea.

Yes, that's how I interpret it.

OK- let's say I'm a Somali pirate warlord (like the asshole I quoted in post #22)- the next group of hostages I manage to get hold of, instead of ransoming them, I'll keep in an isolated spot (perhaps keep them on the move) so the likelihood of them being found is pretty low- then I'll give all opposing government forces the message that the next time you intervene in one of my acts of piracy or kill or arrest any suspected pirates, I'll kill the captives- what would you do then, Bob?

**BillyBobThai** · 23-02-2011, 03:24 PM

It is high time that all of the worlds governments go on a joint training mission in Somalia. This is the kind of situation that the UN was set up for, but they are worthless at their best.

**hazz** · 23-02-2011, 03:33 PM

Its one thing to prioritise the lives if the hostages to the point of killing the hijackers, even if they have surrendered. Its another thing to kill them in cold blood, when there no danger to anyones life, which some seem to be proposing in this thread.
History say's this is a dangerous habit for army's to have.... A habit that some on this forum are accusing the thai army of having when the shut down last years protests in april/may.

At the end of the day the only way to stop piracy to make it unprofitable; and short of somali becoming a functional society, the only way to do that is to quarantine the hijacked vessels and hold negotiations that revolve around three things: surrender, death or negotiating which of these two outcomes they want. But this will get people killed, whilst the pirates are slowly learning the new economics and whilst killing are rare, nobody will be too keen to travel this road.

**FailSafe** · 23-02-2011, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by BillyBobThai

It is high time that all of the worlds governments go on a joint training mission in Somalia.

Yeah, right- there's only one country that's going to take the lead on this- some others will pitch in, and the rest will bitch-and-moan about how the job is being done (and they'll probably blame George Bush).

**thehighlander959** · 23-02-2011, 03:54 PM

America and hostage rescue situations????? they don,t do very well at this game.I seem to remember them killing a social worker in Afghanistan a few months ago by throwing a grenade at her.US Special Forces yer having a laugh ain,t ya....
I hope we get the full story on this botched operation. Maybe we will get a movie like Blackhawk Down....

**Poo and Pee** · 23-02-2011, 04:16 PM

Its hard to belive that the worlds navies cannot stop this.

i've often thought how mad the situation is too.

the reality is, that it is a billion $ business. some people are getting extremely rich from this 'business'. i read somewhere that 15% of the booty is paid to the actual pirates themselves, whilst the other 85% goes to the people funding and organising the entire thing. arresting or killing a few pirates will do nothing to stop this happening, and would not worry the people behind it at all. unless they can stop these people, it will be business as usual..

watch the entire southpark episode on samali pirates (and all other episodes) here!
Fatbeard (Season 13, Episode 7) - Full Episode Player - South Park Studios

**Thormaturge** · 23-02-2011, 04:29 PM

So Darwin was right then.

**Bettyboo** · 23-02-2011, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by hazz

Its one thing to prioritise the lives if the hostages to the point of killing the hijackers, even if they have surrendered. Its another thing to kill them in cold blood, when there no danger to anyones life, which some seem to be proposing in this thread. History say's this is a dangerous habit for army's to have.... A habit that some on this forum are accusing the thai army of having when the shut down last years protests in april/may.

I can't believed you've compared the two, hazz... I don't think we need to list out the vast differences between the two.

These pirates are going out to the middle of the sea/ocean and kidnapping/killing people; they've chosen an occupation of extortion and murder of random men, women and children - they deserve no mercy, and no kindness, imo. The UN might wanna permit the area and sink any fuking pirate scum that enter the declared zones - just a thought; if it's unworkable then stop any ship/vessel that is in the area and check their reason for being there (people don't go out to sea for no reason; fisherman don't go around without nets and no fish onboard; fishmen have no need for fast ribs and ak47s), if no reason is found then...

**English Noodles** · 23-02-2011, 05:07 PM

No doubt the movie is already being planned.

**teddy** · 23-02-2011, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by English Noodles

No doubt the movie is already being planned.

Pirates of the Caribbean: the curse of the US special forces

**Davis Knowlton** · 23-02-2011, 06:25 PM

A number of posters appear to be forgetting last April, when US Navy SEAL Team snipers took out three Somali pirates with three simultaneous head shots, rescuing the ship's captain, who was just about to get executed by one of the pirates who had an automatic weapon to his back. And in the latest, the US Navy ship was in verbal negotiations with the pirates when the pirates shot and killed all four hostages, and then fired an RPG at a naval vessel. Only at that point did US Special Forces get deployed, and they killed or captured all of the pirates involved. Seems that you guys are giving them a smack for no good reason. I would expect that from BobR, who cares nothing about fact if he has a chance to bash America, his most hated country (except when his monthly pension check comes in), but I would expect better from most of the rest of you.

**ItsRobsLife** · 23-02-2011, 06:32 PM

I think it's just going to have to be accepted that as the world becomes more divided economically and socially there will be more places that become no-go areas for the relatively wealthy.

How can first world nations eradicate a problem that operates outside the boundaries of modern convention without becoming lawless themselves?

Perhaps outright lawlessness on both sides is what it will come to eventually as the world slips further into chaos, after all the precedent of western nations for upholding moral behaviour is only a chimera, but surely it is time that owners of non commercial vessels gave in to the inevitable and avoided the area altogether.

**Davis Knowlton** · 23-02-2011, 06:35 PM

^Well said.

**ItsRobsLife** · 23-02-2011, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by English Noodles

No doubt the movie is already being planned.

I can't see any hero in this story and it's not exactly a happy ending.

**Thormaturge** · 23-02-2011, 06:45 PM

Regrettably the Western world is developing a "Nanny" culture. The hostages knew the perils before they went but still they made the choice, and it was not by any means essential travel.

I do not believe for one moment that naval vessels should be diverted away from protecting merchant shipping, where the crew members have little choice since it is their job. The navy is already stretched (well, except for the Thai contingent) without this sort of lunacy.

Sorry for the people who died but they can hardly blame anyone else.

**hazz** · 23-02-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by hazz

Its one thing to prioritise the lives if the hostages to the point of killing the hijackers, even if they have surrendered. Its another thing to kill them in cold blood, when there no danger to anyones life, which some seem to be proposing in this thread. History say's this is a dangerous habit for army's to have.... A habit that some on this forum are accusing the thai army of having when the shut down last years protests in april/may.

I can't believed you've compared the two, hazz... I don't think we need to list out the vast differences between the two.

Just as you find somali pirates undeserving of any rights, and it being fair game to:

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

They should torture them harder to make sure - then, as long as the villages have a few new cars (clear signs of pirate illgotten gains...) napalm them...

I am sure that those who sent the army out to kill on 19th May felt the same way about the people that they were attacking. although clearly not as much as you dislike somali pirates, as i don't think the thai air force has been napalming villages just because they have a few red shirts living there.

You cannot say its ok for solders to carry out ex-judicial killings on people you don't like and say its no ok for other's to do the same, just because you do like the people being killed. ex-judicial killing are either right or wrong.
As soon as you start compromising these ideals you end up with regimes with a variety of unpleasant names, with their wars on drugs, wars on terror and wars on long haired men.

When killing the monster, be careful not to become the monster in the process.

**Rural Surin** · 23-02-2011, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Unless the Americans are gonna toruture them and find out their villages for napalm attacks...

Maybe, just maybe they might lie about which village they come from. But hey ho, so what is wrong if the wrong village is hit eh?

They should torture them harder to make sure - then, as long as the villages have a few new cars (clear signs of pirate illgotten gains...) napalm them...

...and what about the innocents in the said villages? Guilty by association, BB? Quite the civilised tact you take.

Thread: Four US Hostages killed by Somali Pirates

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions