Airline News

**OhOh** · 14-09-2019, 10:40 AM

Boeing Foresees Return Of The 737 MAX In November - But Not Everywhere

The Boeing 737 MAX was expected to be flying again in October. Yesterday Boeing's CEO Dennis Muilenburg pushed that date to November:
Boeing chairman and chief executive Dennis Muilenburg on Wednesday reiterated his projection that, despite concerns publicly expressed by Europe’s air safety regulator, the 737 MAX should begin to return to service around November

Continues at:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/0...here.html#more

A presentation by EASA highlighting the lack of response and solutions, from Boeing Airplanes, to their April 1st and July questions:
Exchange of views - European Union Aviation Safety Agency
Patrick KY, Executive Director

03 September 2019

Continues at:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsda...y-original.pdf

**OhOh** · 14-09-2019, 10:50 AM

India plans its own tests of Boeing 737 MAX jets even if FAA clears them for takeoff in the US

"India is set to conduct its own checks on Boeing’s 737 MAX jets even if the US aviation regulator clears the grounded planes, reports citing officials say.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the certifying authority of US-made jets, is to assess the planes’ safety before they can fly again after 737 MAXs were grounded globally in March following two crashes that killed 346 people.

Ongoing investigations by the FAA recently found that software and sensors contributed to the pilots inability to control the planes. Following the discovery, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) last week told the FAA it would have to run its own tests before approving the 737 MAX for flying again. Now India is following suit, with the Indian Directorate General of Civil Aviation reportedly about to announce a similar measure.

India plans to start its own assessment of the jets by conducting test flights right after the FAA declares them fit to fly, Bloomberg reported, citing a person with direct knowledge of the matter. The news outlet noted, however, that the country’s air safety regulator doesn’t expect MAX jets to resume operation in India before 2020. The regulator is also set to demand simulator training for all the pilots certified to fly the MAX jets, CNBC reported, citing a senior official.

SpiceJet Ltd, India’s second-biggest airline, is among the biggest purchasers of the aircraft in the country, with as many as 205 currently on order. The company has been optimistic about the outcome of the checks, predicting that MAX planes will resume flying soon.

“They have fixed the issues in MCAS [flight control system of the aircraft called Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System]. They have told us that the plane will fly again by November. The certification process should be completed by October,” a senior executive at SpiceJet said on condition of anonymity, as cited by CNBC.

US-based Boeing has suffered severe losses in profits since the grounding of its best-selling MAX jets. With a large number of the pre-ordered planes long expected by airlines worldwide, the manufacturer has already faced several lawsuits demanding compensation for failed plane deliveries.

Last month, Boeing posted its largest-ever quarterly loss, calculating the total cost of the 737 MAX crisis at over $8 billion. The company even warned that it may have to shut down production of the grounded jet completely if the regulators don’t come up with an assessment soon."

https://www.rt.com/business/468759-b...cks-grounding/

**harrybarracuda** · 14-09-2019, 03:23 PM

I think everyone is going to be testing the flying coffins out before they are free to fly outside the US again.

**OhOh** · 16-09-2019, 03:14 PM

It complicates the selling of through tickets of European, Asian, African and Swiss..... airlines flying into, and outbound from, ameristani airspace to a hub airport and flying onwards in an FAA "certified" MAX. Insurance, liability etc.

I presume the flight ticket sites already have a "NO MAX" tick box available, ready to be added into their options list, if FAA proceed on certifying the non airworthy aircraft, on their own.

**OhOh** · 17-09-2019, 10:06 PM

It appears that the logistics of re-entering these 600+ MAX's back into serviceability, will take some time, irrespective of what actually needs to be fixed to satisfy the certification needs.

Look to 2013 787 grounding to see how Boeing will return MAX to service

"Sept. 13, 2019, © Leeham News: As Boeing prepares for what it hopes is an imminent recertification of the 737 MAX from the Federal Aviation Administration, how it will handle the logistics of returning 381 grounded airplanes to service and delivering nearly 300 more undelivered 737s is key. One need look to the only other time a Boeing jetliner, the 787, was grounded and how “One Boeing” coalesced to attack what was then its largest logistical task for its commercial airplanes unit.

The return to service of the 787 paled compared with the task facing Boeing today. In 2013, there were only 50 787s grounded worldwide after two lithium ion battery incidents: one fire and one near-fire, one on the ground and the other as the airplane took off.

In 2013, the production rate of the 787 was in the single digits per month. The 737 is being produced at a rate of 42/mo.

In 2013, there were a few score of 787s parked around Everett’s Paine Field awaiting delivery. Today, the nearly 600 737s are scattered around four locations in Washington State, a Boeing facility in Texas and various airline storage areas around the globe.

In May 2013, I wrote a freelance piece for CNN’s website how Boeing planned to return the 787 to service. This story may be found here.

The task at hand

Boeing today has been mum about how it will handle the MAX return to service.

It has publicly said it is hiring a few hundred temporary employees to be located at Moses Lake (WA), where more than 100 MAXes are in temporary storage.

These technical people will be tasked with “un-pickling” the airplanes: opening up seals on pitot tubes, air ducts, engines, etc. Making sure fluids are pure and all control surfaces work. Powering up the engines, APU. Making sure the airplanes are free of insects, rodents and birds. The list goes on.

Months of storage—the MAX was grounded March 13—complicate the tasks.

These technical people include retired Boeing employees across a litany of skills.

Marshaling One Boeing

In 2013, the task of installing hardware to contain possible battery fires and bringing back to life 50 787s was then described as tedious. New batteries had to be installed, new containment boxes installed around the batteries, new systems associated with the containment boxes added and an exhaust hole drilled into the bottom of the fuselage.

For MAX, the fixes to the MCAS and flight control system are software updates that will take maybe a few hours to download. As of today, no hardware fix is going to be required, although Europe’s safety regulator, EASA, says a third Angle of Attack sensor of some kind may be mandated.

Boeing Commercial Aviation Services, the forerunner of Boeing Global Services, took the lead. Personnel from Boeing Defense, Space & Security were loaned to Boeing Commercial Aviation Services and CAS.

“Because of the way the teams were going to have to be built, there were some very specific skills that were needed,” CAS CEO Lou Mancini told me in the 2013 CNN interview. “A good example would be engine run. Within AOG we have two engine run folks but obviously we were going to need more, so we did reach across the enterprise.

“We reached out to our BDS (Boeing Defense, Space and Security) counterparts. We reached out to our factory. We reached out to our avionics functional test guys and the Everett flight line people really helped. A vast majority of it came from the Everett flight line. They are as close to the same skill set as we would require.”

Dispersed around the world

Then, CAS had a team of 300 people in 10 teams dispersed around the globe to service those 50 787s. Boeing had to transport up to 30,000 lbs of tools and equipment, something not required for the MAX.

“This was on such as large scale, this is probably the single largest thing we had to focus on, the logistics behind being able to accommodate the movement,” Boeing said then. “We moved equipment sometimes several times to satisfy the customers.”

Returning the MAX to Service

Boeing doesn’t have the parts and tooling logistics for the MAX that was required for the 787. But the sheer number of airplanes creates a different set of logistics challenges.

The first MAXes returned to service will be newly produced ones from the Renton (WA) factory.

These won’t have been “pickled,” and the software upgrades should be installed during final assembly.

This is probably what Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg in thinking when he says the MAX could return to service in the early fourth quarter. Preparing the produced-but-undelivered airplanes for RTS and bringing back to life the grounded airplanes will take longer.

The level of pilot training required remains unclear and could affect the RTS."

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/13/look-to-2013-787-grounding-to-see-how-boeing-will-return-max-to-service/

One wonders on what basis are the "financial advisors" who set market share prices utilise, as the price doesn't appear to have moved in the past 6 months.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=ba+sha...ZI&form=MOZTSB

Obviously not airline or aircraft manufacturing knowledgable. Possibly the recent WTO ruling, re Airbus 'subsidies", if goldilocks adopts it, determines the price

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/14/wt...-subsidy-case/

**harrybarracuda** · 17-09-2019, 10:42 PM

Bear in mind Boeing never solved the Screamliner battery problem.

They just packed them in a fireproof box.

**Troy** · 18-09-2019, 12:36 AM

^ The cause of the battery fires was never found.

Boeing made several design changes to the battery and its protection circuits. The fire proof box was the fail safe on top of these changes.

**harrybarracuda** · 18-09-2019, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Troy

^ The cause of the battery fires was never found.

My point exactly.

**David48atTD** · 26-09-2019, 01:49 PM

Daxing international, said to be world’s largest single-building terminal a massive ‘starfish’ airport opens in Beijing

China has opened a vast, multibillion-dollar airport in the country’s capital, in the run-up to a major political anniversary.
Less than five years after construction began, the 450bn yuan (£50bn) Daxing international airport was officially opened on Wednesday in a ceremony attended by the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping.

China is preparing to celebrate its National Day on 1 October, marking 70 years since the founding of the People’s Republic of China, against the backdrop of unrest in Hong Kong and a flagging economy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-opens-beijing

---

Ummm ... where are the Solar Cells to power the joint? I thought they were de rigueur in China these days?

**panama hat** · 26-09-2019, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

Ummm ... where are the Solar Cells to power the joint? I thought they were de rigueur in China these days?

All show, glitz and glamour like so many buildings in China . . . hollow

**nidhogg** · 26-09-2019, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

a massive ‘starfish’

Clearly modeled after my first wife then.

**Klondyke** · 26-09-2019, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by David48atTD

Ummm ... where are the Solar Cells to power the joint? I thought they were de rigueur in China these days?

See 5:30 min.

**Klondyke** · 26-09-2019, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by panama hat

All show, glitz and glamour like so many buildings in China . . . hollow

Hollow = no solid. Would you like to have it more solid?

**harrybarracuda** · 26-09-2019, 11:15 PM

Yeah, looks like they should be able to arc a coin into an engine from those airbridges.

**panama hat** · 27-09-2019, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Hollow = no solid. Would you like to have it more solid?

If you'e been in China you'd know what that refers to. Glitzy and shiny on the outside but the elevators don't work, the toilets don't have cisterns, 20% of the space is being used, electrical wires hang loose from the ceiling etc...

**harrybarracuda** · 27-09-2019, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by panama hat

If you'e been in China you'd know what that refers to. Glitzy and shiny on the outside but the elevators don't work, the toilets don't have cisterns, 20% of the space is being used, electrical wires hang loose from the ceiling etc...

I think that was the forum fuckwit trying to be obtuse.

**OhOh** · 30-09-2019, 10:55 AM

I'm sure they utilised a "Chinese" flavour/approach, can't be accused of any IP theft that way.

Originally Posted by panama hat

the toilets don't have cisterns

Possibly behind the wall panel, Less ability to tinker with or steal!

Where are the bum guns, open plastic "klong water" dustbins and plastic bowls, or just lots of corners or flowerbeds to utilise, they should take a leaf from rural China/ Thailand/Asia eh?

**OhOh** · 30-09-2019, 10:58 AM

Two different views of Boeing's proposal for it's 737 rehabilitation.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/25/boeing-board-aerospace-safety-committee-recommends-realignment-enhancement-of-procedures/

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/0...e-737-max.html

**nora tittoff** · 30-09-2019, 01:50 PM

Silk air flew one their 737 max 8 to alice springs today without passengers to store in a dry climate.

**harrybarracuda** · 30-09-2019, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Two different views of Boeing's proposal for it's 737 rehabilitation.

https://leehamnews.com/2019/09/25/boeing-board-aerospace-safety-committee-recommends-realignment-enhancement-of-procedures/

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/0...e-737-max.html

Any summary?

**OhOh** · 30-09-2019, 08:47 PM

"Sure sex is great, but have you ever had your suitcase arrive first on a baggage carousel?"

**OhOh** · 30-09-2019, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Any summary?

One is racist and exclusive.

The other isn't.

**OhOh** · 30-09-2019, 08:56 PM

"Doubling capacity by having aircraft take off from both ends of the runway didn’t go well. You learn something new every day in this job!."

**harrybarracuda** · 30-09-2019, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by OhOh

"Sure sex is great, but have you ever had your suitcase arrive first on a baggage carousel?"

Many times. Us at the front have special tags on our baggage saying "Put this on the carousel before the proles arrive" or words to that effect.

**Troy** · 01-10-2019, 01:27 AM

^ I thought you travelled first class 'arry....

...staff should be picking up your luggage while you're taking a shower in the lounge.

Thread: Airline News

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions