Former Russian spy critically ill in Britain after exposure to unidentified substance

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Originally Posted by OhOh

Your link to the UK government funded fake news source quotes a number of "medical authorities" and other dubious sources:

Syrian opposition activists, rescue workers and medics? Unamed sources.

Violations Documentation Center (VDC) - just look at their "funders" and hence puppet masters. OSF, "Ayman Asfari

Ayman Asfari is Group Chief Executive of Petrofac Limited. He has led the growth of Petrofac from a small US-based engineering business to a FTSE 250 multinational company employing more than 18,000 employees worldwide. He is a member of the Board of Trustees of the American University of Beirut, and sits on advisory boards of Chatham House and the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Syria Civil Defence -THE WHITE HELMETS :)

Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS) "is a non-profit, non-political, professional organization representing thousands of Syrian-American medical professionals in the United States" :)

Union of Medical Care and Relief Organizations (UOSSM) - ameristani company. :)

A medical student working at a hospital told the BBC he had treated a man who died - An unamed source.

Videos posted by the opposition activist group Douma Revolution - A facebook entity!

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group - No words needed.

The United States, - No words needed.

Experts from a joint UN-OPCW mission also said they were confident that government forces were behind the April 2017 Sarin attack on Khan Sheikhoun, - based on unprovable sampling by others not OPCW staff

Is that the best shot you have, quoting BBC propaganda whose sources are easily discarded? Do you really believe the number of fake sources is important or a handful of statements from person2 of authority?



Check out published calls from many Russian officials prior to lying again 'arry.



The LORD pays 10g of 99.999% gold/post.



Not only the evidence but the now in country, OPCW team.



Luckily some are at a distance and one suspects our country of choice is not an object worth attacking by ameristan. 'arry allegedly is in the thick of it, probably managing the comms for one or other UAE King.



Some get off on slaughtering little brown people, in far way countries. It makes them feel exceptional.



Will anyone listen to him and put their heads above the parapet, not I suspect in ameristan.

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Classic OhOh.

Yet you will post the most laughable nonsense from RT.com and bristle when people laugh at you.

:)

Can't let your propaganda stand without comment. It is 10g of 99.999% gold after all. :)

When you think about it.....

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Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Facebook that “smart” missiles would destroy any evidence of a suspected chemical weapons attack.

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....that's an admission that they suspect a chemical weapons attack, and an admission that they think that the Syrians have them.

:)

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

To anyone versed in how high-level, high-stakes diplomacy operates in the real world, it’s obvious that London is in possession of solid intelligence to back up its claim of Kremlin culpability in the March 4 attack. Theresa May’s insistence that Russian intelligence is to blame for the attack on the Skripals is the tell that the Brits know something important behind the scenes, the sort of highly classified information that can’t be shared with the public. But what?


Finally, we may have an answer to that vital question. Yesterday, The Express, a British tabloid, reported a bombshell: British spies on Cyprus had intercepted a series of secret Kremlin messages that were related to the assassination

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The Express, a tabloid for the ultra right-wing flank of Tory voters, it is as reliable as rt.com.
I've been waiting for a major mainland European newspaper to pick up this story but none of them seems to find it newsworthy.
You believe in shit like this Harry?

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Originally Posted by lom

The Express, a tabloid for the ultra right-wing flank of Tory voters, it is as reliable as rt.com.
I've been waiting for a major mainland European newspaper to pick up this story but none of them seems to find it newsworthy.
You believe in shit like this Harry?

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I did actually highlight the bits that were relevant.

I'm quite aware the OAP Daily Star is not exactly a bastion of journalism.

:)

Daughter of poisoned Russian spy declines embassy help: statement

LONDON (Reuters) - Yulia Skripal, who was poisoned in Britain last month along with her father, a former Russian spy, said on Wednesday she did not wish to take up the offer of services from the Russian Embassy in London.

In a statement issued on her behalf by British police, Skripal said her father, Sergei, remained seriously ill and she was still suffering from the effects of nerve gas used against them in an attack that led to one of the biggest crises in Britain’s relations with Moscow since the Cold War.


“I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can,” Yulia Skripal said.





“At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.”





The Russian Embassy in London has previously said it had not been granted consular access to the 33 year-old woman.


Following Yulia Skripal’s statement, the embassy said: “We continue to insist on a meeting with Yulia and Sergei Skripal. The situation around them looks more and more like a forceful detention or imprisonment.”


Yulia Skripal was discharged from a hospital in the English city of Salisbury on Monday, where, she said, she was treated “ with obvious clinical expertise and with such kindness”.


Skripal said she was not yet strong enough to give a media interview and she said comments made by her cousin to Russian media were not her’s nor those of her father.


“I thank my cousin Viktoria for her concern for us, but ask that she does not visit me or try to contact me for the time being,” the statement quoted her as saying.


The Skripals were in a critical condition for weeks after the March 4 attack before their health improved.



Sergei Skripal, who was recruited by Britain’s MI6, was arrested for treason in Moscow in 2004. He ended up in Britain after being swapped in 2010 for Russian spies caught in the United States.


Britain accused Russia of being behind the nerve agent attack and Western governments including the United States expelled more than 100 Russian diplomats. Russia has denied any involvement in the poisoning and retaliated in kind.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...-idUSKBN1HI30V

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Originally Posted by misskit

In a statement issued on her behalf by British police

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Not a personal public statement I see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by misskit

“At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them.”

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Who does not doubt such statement? (no name here please...)

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Originally Posted by OhOh

Are you suggesting that the OPCW teams are not independent and thus are "managed" by the country they are investigating?

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"Managed" not "by the country they are investigating" - but by others (as was the case in Iraq)...

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I did actually highlight the bits that were relevant.

I'm quite aware the OAP Daily Star is not exactly a bastion of journalism.

:)

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The interception of the mentioned message never took place, it is all a fabrication by the Express so nothing of what you highlighted is relevant.
The article is written for the gullible, feeding them with one simple fact that can be checked (that UK has a listening stn in Cyprus) praying on that
they therefore will believe all the other bollox.
And you fell for it Harry!!

He didn't fall for it, he dived in head first then did the backstroke while whistling Rule Brittania. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lom

The interception of the mentioned message never took place, it is all a fabrication by the Express so nothing of what you highlighted is relevant.

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Is this because it's in the Express though?

Or because you are in fact a top intelligence agent or work in the Golf Ball?

:)

Well we'll know soon enough. Not that it matters, because unless it comes from Pravda, the Putin girls choir won't believe it anyway.

Amazing how the Russians are squealing for a deeper investigation into this, yet for an attack that killed 70 in Syria they squeal the opposite way.

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Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to release findings on Salisbury nerve agent attack

The international chemical weapons watchdog's report on the Salisbury nerve agent attack is expected to be revealed, as a diplomatic battle continues to rage between the UK and Russia.

Former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with a nerve agent thought to have been ordered by Moscow more than a month ago, leaving the pair seriously ill in hospital.

The Foreign Office said it had asked the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to release an executive summary of its findings on Thgursday <sic>.

It comes as Ms Skripal revealed she has rejected assistance from the Russian embassy, adding: "I want to stress that no one speaks for me, or for my father, but ourselves."

The 33-year-old said she has found herself in a "totally different life" as she continues to recover from the attack.

It is believed that British authorities immediately spirited Ms Skripal away to a secure location when she was discharged from hospital earlier this week.

The Russian embassy reacted angrily, suggesting in a series of tweets that the Russian national had been taken against her will.

The embassy is perturbed by a refusal from UK authorities to grant Ms Skripal's cousin Viktoria a visa to visit her family.

It escalated the war of words, saying in a series of statements posted on social media: "Secret resettlement of Mr and Ms Skripal, barred from any contact with their family will be seen as an abduction or at least as their forced isolation."

But Ms Skripal said in a statement: "I have specially trained officers available to me, who are helping to take care of me and to explain the investigative processes that are being undertaken.

"I have access to friends and family, and I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can.

"At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them. Most importantly, I am safe and feeling better as time goes by, but I am not yet strong enough to give a full interview to the media, as I one day hope to do.

"Until that time, I want to stress that no one speaks for me, or for my father, but ourselves. I thank my cousin Viktoria for her concern for us, but ask that she does not visit me or try to contact me for the time being.

"Her opinions and assertions are not mine and they are not my father's."

A Foreign Office spokesman said it has asked the OPCW to distribute the report to all state parties to the Chemical Weapons Convention, including Russia.

"This transparent and open approach, which we have pursued from the outset, is in sharp contrast to the Russian state's ongoing tactics of obfuscation and distraction," the spokesman said.

The Kremlin has repeatedly attempted to challenge Britain's claims that it was responsible for the poisoning of the Skripals.

Theresa May has said that UK military experts at Porton Down found that they were poisoned by Novichok, a nerve agent developed by Russia, and that the only plausible explanation was that the Russian state was responsible.

Despite the denials from Moscow, Britain has received strong diplomatic backing from western allies for its stance, with more than 20 countries expelling in excess of 150 Russian diplomats in protest at the Russian actions.

Last week, a Russian call for a new joint investigation was voted down by 15 votes to six at a meeting of the OPCW executive council in The Hague.

Former double agent Mr Skripal was jailed in Russia for selling secrets to MI6 but was released as part of a spy swap deal in 2010 and settled in the UK.

It is hoped he will soon be fit for release from hospital, despite grave fears that the exposure to military-grade Novichok on March 4 would prove fatal.

Ms Skripal said she was treated with "such kindness" at Salisbury District Hospital, and is missing the staff there.

"I have left my father in their care, and he is still seriously ill. I too am still suffering with the effects of the nerve agent used against us. I find myself in a totally different life than the ordinary one I left just over a month ago, and I am seeking to come to terms with my prospects, whilst also recovering from this attack on me," she said.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8300626.html

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Amazing how the Russians are squealing for a deeper investigation into this, yet for an attack that killed 70 in Syria they squeal the opposite way.

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May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth. Whereas ...............

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic

May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth

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...knowing the truth and sharing it completely with the world isn't usually a Russian strategy...

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Originally Posted by tomcat

knowing the truth and sharing it completely with the world isn't usually a Russian strategy...

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Are the UK and America, to name two, any different?

...yes: they have to deal with investigative reporters who have all sorts of ways to unbury and publish inconvenient facts...rt (for example) merely reports what it's told to...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic

May be because the Russians have hands on investigators in Syria who know the truth. Whereas ...............

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH.

So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?

My word, you are truly gullible.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH.

So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?

My word, you are truly gullible.

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harry, you really don't think it's just too big a coincidence that the "chemical attack" happened just days after trump announced he wants to pull all u.s. troops/personnel from syria?

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President Trump says he wants to pull troops out of Syria - ABC News

"I want to get out. I want to bring our troops back home. I want to start rebuilding our nation," Trump said during a press conference with leaders of the Baltic countries Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. "It's time. We were successful against ISIS. We'll be successful against anybody militarily, but sometimes it's time to come back home — and we're thinking about that very seriously."

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.....

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack", we can take them at their word you mean?

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I would believe Russia before I believed the US.

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic

I would believe Russia before I believed the US.

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Yup. No question.

I'd sooner belive Smeg or a Tesla owner than either.

Of course for real skinny Fux News

Why not to believe the chemical May and clown Boris? And now kindly supported by the remorseful Tony.

The government with so long history of nothing but truth ("highly likely").

The Putin girls choir say they would believe Russia before the US.

Clearly they have not yet twigged why they are called the Putin girls choir.

Can we say "Veiled threat""?

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Russian state television has warned “traitors” and Kremlin critics that they should not settle in England because of an increased risk of dying in mysterious circumstances.
“Don’t choose England as a place to live. Whatever the reasons, whether you’re a professional traitor to the motherland or you just hate your country in your spare time, I repeat, no matter, don’t move to England,” the presenter Kirill Kleymenov said during a news programme on Channel One, state TV’s flagship station.
“Something is not right there. Maybe it’s the climate. But in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with a grave outcome. People get hanged, poisoned, they die in helicopter crashes and fall out of windows in industrial quantities,” Kleymenov said.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tle-in-england

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Can we say "Veiled threat""?

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If you're a moron, sure.

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Originally Posted by Neo

If you're a moron, sure.

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You'll have no problem then.

Okey dokey, that rules out seafood poisoning then.

*Snigger*

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Skripals poisoned with nerve agent, chemical arms watchdog confirms
Anthony Deutsch, Guy Faulconbridge
5 MIN READ


THE HAGUE/LONDON (Reuters) - The lethal poison that struck down a former Russian spy and his daughter last month in England was a highly pure type of Novichok nerve agent, the global chemical weapons watchdog concluded on Thursday, backing Britain’s findings.


Sergei Skripal, a former colonel in Russian military intelligence who betrayed dozens of agents to Britain’s MI6 foreign spy service, and his daughter were found unconscious on a bench in the English cathedral city of Salisbury on March 4.


Britain blamed Russia for the poisoning and Prime Minister Theresa May said that the Skripals had been attacked with a military-grade nerve agent from the Novichok group of poisons, developed by the Soviet Union in the 1970s and 80s.


Moscow denied any involvement and suggested Britain had carried out the attack to stoke anti-Russian hysteria, but Britain asked the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) to check samples from Salisbury.


Testing by four laboratories affiliated with the global chemical weapons watchdog confirmed Britain’s findings and showed that the toxic chemical was “of high purity.”


The chemical weapons watchdog did not explicitly name Novichok in its published summary, say where the poison may have come from or assign blame for the attack. But it did confirm Britain’s analysis about the substance that had been used.


“The results of analysis by OPCW-designated laboratories of environmental and biomedical samples collected by the OPCW team confirm the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical,” the published summary said.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...HJ1L0?rpc=401&

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

....that's an admission that they suspect a chemical weapons attack, and an admission that they think that the Syrians have them.

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You yourself post the quote which includes the word "suspected". Does that not raise doubts in your mind.

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said on Facebook that “smart” missiles would destroy any evidence of a suspected chemical weapons attack.

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That's not an acceptance of the allegation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

So when the Russians say "It's OK we checked, there was no chemical attack",

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The OPCW were requested by Russia and Syria at the latest UNSC meeting, they will produce the evidence, they will investigate the evidence and the OPCW report will be published and distributed.

Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Other than offering some protection of being bombed/struck by missiles, by ameristan and it's vassals.

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Originally Posted by tomcat

...yes: they have to deal with investigative reporters

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How many were allowed to the hospital?
(same as to hospital with Litvinenko - the world knows only the one photo on his deathbed...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Okey dokey, that rules out seafood poisoning then.

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From your link:

"British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson hailed the findings. “There can be no doubt what was used and there remains no alternative explanation about who was responsible – only Russia has the means, motive and record,” Johnson said.
A German Foreign Ministry spokesman said the OPCW confirmed Britain’s analysis. “It is now up to Russia to finally play a constructive role and answer the open questions,” he said.


Juergen Hardt, foreign policy spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives, said the report provided “certainty” that the Skripals were poisoned by Novichok.


“This finding massively increases the pressure on Moscow to fully explain the exact course of events and background of the first nerve agent attack on European soil,” he said. "

The bumbling buffoon calls for Russia to confess where no evidence exists that Russia is the only possible source, that Russia is the only party who has a possible reason and is the only country in the world that has possibly used chemical weapons.

Then the German pipes up with the first use of CW in Europe. I suppose the WWI and WWII usage by all parties have been forgotten. But I suppose the claims that Russia has previously used such weapons in Europe, have been accepted as propaganda.

For both parties to be so accurate as to which CW was allegedly used, must indicate they and UK PD have samples to compare them with. If not a research project to confirm the affects of the CW would have to be undertaken which I suggest would take more than a week or so. I suggest that if there are now three proven sources the UK PD lab and the two unidentified OPCW testing labs, then it can in fact be created.

One wonder which of the other 20 plus OPCW labs also have the same ability and/or samples in store?

Will the Met police investigation have access to all these labs.

The BBC Worlds Service is now suggesting that Russia has an illegal "stockpile", which is defined by the OPCW as 1,000s of tons, as any country who has a competent lab may have. As we know although there are 20 plus OPCW labs spread around the world, Russia has been cleared by previously by OPCW and at least two, Israel and ameristan have not. That's not including any country with unlimited budget and a desire.

The name of the source awaits the Met investigation to publish it's report.

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Originally Posted by Klondyke

How many were allowed to the hospital?
(same as to hospital with Litvinenko - the world knows only the one photo on his deathbed...)

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Even if they were, do they know who the patients were or could others be easily introduced to stand-ins. The only persons would know are her family members who as we know, from the Met police, the alleged Russian citizen has stated "she" does not want to see them.

Is she or her handlers afraid the stand-in might be exposed?

"a highly pure type of cock and bullshit"

Ftyfy harry.. if it's such a highly pure military grade how come the Skripals are still alive.? Please explain :chitown:

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Originally Posted by OhOh

The OPCW were requested by Russia and Syria at the latest UNSC meeting, they will produce the evidence, they will investigate the evidence and the OPCW report will be published and distributed.

Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Other than offering some protection of being bombed/struck by missiles, by ameristan and it's vassals.

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Correct, Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Because their draft attempt at taking charge was rightfully knocked back.

:)

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Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Correct, Russia's hand is nowhere in that process. Because their draft attempt at taking charge was rightfully knocked back.

:)

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a good point :bananaman:

I am getting confused OhOh. So can you tell me your theory of what happened? Also your reasons and evidence for your theory? So far as an impartial observer I would say the balance of probabilities firmly points towards Russia.

OhOh
"Even if they were, do they know who the patients were or could others be easily introduced to stand-ins. The only persons would know are her family members who as we know, from the Met police, the alleged Russian citizen has stated "she" does not want to see them.
Is she or her handlers afraid the stand-in might be exposed?"

You are now suggesting there is a "stand in" daughter. Again evidence? If so, would it not be advantageous for the "stand in" to directly implicate the Russians? Her only dissenting statement was to say she disagreed with what her Aunt had said. She did not reject help from the Russian embassy which would have indirectly pointed towards Russia, but said she did not need help at the moment.
What would they do when the "real Yulia" surfaces or do you think she has been "disposed of". In which case they will eventually have to get the "stand in" to "disappear" or risk exposure. The conspiracy is quickly getting very messy and harder to contain. Of course then dear old Dad cannot be allowed to survive and expose this conspiracy. Now a very messy peace of British Anti Russian propaganda. Maybe there is a few holes in my logic so feel free to point them out with evidence to the contrary.
On the other side I am sure if Yulia's Aunt suspected her own country, she would have felt free to say Vlad tried to have my relo's murdered. I'm sure that would have enhanced her lifes' prospects in Russia no end.

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Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.
The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the Daily Mail on March 6.
This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):

Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include:
...
...
Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.
In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.

Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:

What is the treatment?Unfortunately, there is no antidote for PSP toxins; however, supportive medical care can be life saving. For example, persons whose breathing muscles become paralyzed can be put on a mechanical respirator and given oxygen to help them breath, and people who develop a cardiac arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm) can be given medications to stabilize their heart rhythm.

The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:
In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.
The U.S. developed Saxitoxin into a chemical weapon in the 1960s. The U.S. military designation is TZ. It was also used by the CIA for covert operations and liquidations as evidenced by the Church commission - see: Excerpts of CIA inventory 1, 2.
Serotoxin is registered by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as evidenced in the Wikipedia article Saxitoxin. The agent stays active even after boiling or steaming.
Now back to Porton Down and the pressure to come up with the 'traces of a nerve agent'. The Saxitoxin could obviously pass as a nerve agent, because it is a nerve agent - but without mention of its origin - the food poisoning.
The nerve agent claim was released by police on March 7, three days after the incident.
According to the Daily Mail article mentioned above, the hospital alarmed the police the day after, on March 5, when the staff became aware of Skripal's 'spy credentials', probably through BBC which first brought the news. This means Porton Down at the most had two days from first tests to the conclusion 'nerve agent' announced on the 7th.
This also implies that the hospital probably treated the Skripals for a food poisoning from the start, until they became aware of Skripals credentials the day after. This fits with the letter to the Times from Stephen Davies, the hospital doctor.
(The timeline used above is from the Associated Press' Key moments in the case of former spy Sergei Skripal.)
The media storm had been going on for a week when Theresa May on March 12 entered parliament and announced the 'Novichok'. The blame had been on Russia from the first moment.
Speculation:
Now suppose the government in the meantime had become aware they had a weak case from the start - because they had rushed Porton Down to a premature conclusion?
There would be no way back for May. The die had been cast. The government had walked out on a limb from the start, now they had to continue the theater by naming the agent.
No nerve agent would suit their narrative better than 'Novichok'. Developed in USSR, a substance with some foggy features and many variants - as opposed to other more well known agents with distinct features. And most important an agent that is not listed in OPCW and which was deliberately chosen to confuse. [b adds: 'Novichok' was also known to the British and U.S. public as a 'fearsome Russian agent' through a current spy drama on TV. It increased the propaganda value.]
The initial reluctance to involve the OPCW also fits into this picture: the decision to involve OPCW came after May had landed the Novichok claim in parliament on March 12.
The day before, on March 11, police found traces of a nerve agent in the Zizzi restaurant.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/04/890.jpg
Note that the police inside is unprotected - biggerDid they find the mussel in the risotto? Or 'Novichok'?
More than three weeks into the investigation this is, as far as I know, the only confirmed police find of traces of the nerve agent. Zizzi fits in perfectly as the origin of the poisoning considering the 40 minutes it took before the Skripals passed out on the bench. Though I wonder how a "military grade nerve agent", destined to kill instantly on the battlefield, took that long to incapacitate the Skripals.
I am no doctor, nor a specialist in chemistry - only a retired journalist working with open sources. There are so many curiosities with this case, so many speculations, ...
re Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.
The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the Daily Mail on March 6.
This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):

Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include:
...
...
Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.
In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.

Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:

What is the treatment?Unfortunately, there is no antidote for PSP toxins; however, supportive medical care can be life saving. For example, persons whose breathing muscles become paralyzed can be put on a mechanical respirator and given oxygen to help them breath, and people who develop a cardiac arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm) can be given medications to stabilize their heart rhythm.

The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:
In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.
The U.S. developed Saxitoxin into a chemical weapon in the 1960s. The U.S. military designation is TZ. It was also used by the CIA for covert operations and liquidations as evidenced by the Church commission - see: Excerpts of CIA inventory 1, 2.
Serotoxin is registered by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as evidenced in the Wikipedia article Saxitoxin. The agent stays active even after boiling or steaming.
Now back to Porton Down and the pressure to come up with the 'traces of a nerve agent'. The Saxitoxin could obviously pass as a nerve agent, because it is a nerve agent - but without mention of its origin - the food poisoning.
The nerve agent claim was released by police on March 7, three days after the incident.
According to the Daily Mail article mentioned above, the hospital alarmed the police the day after, on March 5, when the staff became aware of Skripal's 'spy credentials', probably through BBC which first brought the news. This means Porton Down at the most had two days from first tests to the conclusion 'nerve agent' announced on the 7th.
This also implies that the hospital probably treated the Skripals for a food poisoning from the start, until they became aware of Skripals credentials the day after. This fits with the letter to the Times from Stephen Davies, the hospital doctor.
(The timeline used above is from the Associated Press' Key moments in the case of former spy Sergei Skripal.)
The media storm had been going on for a week when Theresa May on March 12 entered parliament and announced the 'Novichok'. The blame had been on Russia from the first moment.
Speculation:
Now suppose the government in the meantime had become aware they had a weak case from the start - because they had rushed Porton Down to a premature conclusion?
There would be no way back for May. The die had been cast. The government had walked out on a limb from the start, now they had to continue the theater by naming the agent.
No nerve agent would suit their narrative better than 'Novichok'. Developed in USSR, a substance with some foggy features and many variants - as opposed to other more well known agents with distinct features. And most important an agent that is not listed in OPCW and which was deliberately chosen to confuse. [b adds: 'Novichok' was also known to the British and U.S. public as a 'fearsome Russian agent' through a current spy drama on TV. It increased the propaganda value.]
The initial reluctance to involve the OPCW also fits into this picture: the decision to involve OPCW came after May had landed the Novichok claim in parliament on March 12.
The day before, on March 11, police found traces of a nerve agent in the Zizzi restaurant.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/04/890.jpg
Note that the police inside is unprotected - biggerDid they find the mussel in the risotto? Or 'Novichok'?
More than three weeks into the investigation this is, as far as I know, the only confirmed police find of traces of the nerve agent. Zizzi fits in perfectly as the origin of the poisoning considering the 40 minutes it took before the Skripals passed out on the bench. Though I wonder how a "military grade nerve agent", destined to kill instantly on the battlefield, took that long to incapacitate the Skripals.
I am no doctor, nor a specialist in chemistry - only a retired journalist working with open sources. There are so many curiosities with this case, so many speculations, ...
Here in Norway we have an expression called blodtåke - best translated as blood fog - when all the media are rushing blindly in one direction, without asking the most elementary questions.
After I wrote this they found 'Novichok' on the door of the Skripals' home, which makes it even more unlikely, considering the time frame.
Did they have to divert attention from the restaurant as origin of the poisoning?
There are of course some holes in the above - just regard this as an idea to go along the line of food poisoning.in Norway we have an expression called blodtåke - best translated as blood fog - when all the media are rushing blindly in one direction, without asking the most elementary questions.
After I wrote this they found 'Novichok' on the door of the Skripals' home, which makes it even more unlikely, considering the time frame.
Did they have to divert attention from the restaurant as origin of the poisoning?
There are of course some holes in the above - just regard this as an idea to go along the line of food poisoning.

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MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning

March 8	-	Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign
March 12	-	Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment
March 14	-	Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? - May's Claims Fall Apart
March 16	-	The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?
March 18	-	NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"
March 21	-	Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)
March 29	-	Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed - "The Skripals' Resurrection"
March 31	-	Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions
April 3	-	Operation Hades Blamed Russia - A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?
April 4	-	It's The Cover-Up" - UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies
April 5	-	Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street - Truth Cut Off

Quote:

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Craig Murray's described the pressure on Porton Down to establish that a nerve agent was used in the alleged Skripal attack. I use 'alleged attack', because there is a fair chance that this was no attack, only a serious food poisoning from the very start.
The Skripals had a seafood risotto pesce with king prawns, mussels and squid rings at Zizzi, as reported here in the Daily Mail on March 6.
This is a dish with a well known reputation as a source of shellfish poisoning.
The Skripals were okay when they arrived, okay when they left, and passed out 40 minutes later on the bench with symptoms similar to a paralytic reaction from shellfish poisoning (PSP):

Symptoms of PSP could begin within a few minutes and up to 10 hours after consumption.Symptoms of PSP can include:
...
...
Respiratory difficulty, salivation, temporary blindness, nausea and vomiting may also occur.
In extreme cases, paralysis of respiratory muscles may lead to respiratory arrest and death within two to twelve hours after consumption. Seriously affected people must be hospitalized and placed under respiratory care.

Another official PSP Fact Sheet (pdf) provides:

What is the treatment?Unfortunately, there is no antidote for PSP toxins; however, supportive medical care can be life saving. For example, persons whose breathing muscles become paralyzed can be put on a mechanical respirator and given oxygen to help them breath, and people who develop a cardiac arrhythmia (abnormal heart rhythm) can be given medications to stabilize their heart rhythm.

The similarity with symptoms and effect derived from a nerve agent are striking, but no surprise:
In fact the substance at work in a case of paralytic seafood poison is a neurotoxin called Saxitoxin (STX) which is among the most potent poisons found in nature. It works the same way as a nerve agent: It acts on the neurons, preventing normal cellular function and leading to paralysis and in worst case death. In fact Saxitoxin is so potent that it was weaponized by the U.S. and used as a chemical weapon - a nerve agent.
The U.S. developed Saxitoxin into a chemical weapon in the 1960s. The U.S. military designation is TZ. It was also used by the CIA for covert operations and liquidations as evidenced by the Church commission - see: Excerpts of CIA inventory 1, 2.
Serotoxin is registered by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) as evidenced in the Wikipedia article Saxitoxin. The agent stays active even after boiling or steaming.
Now back to Porton Down and the pressure to come up with the 'traces of a nerve agent'. The Saxitoxin could obviously pass as a nerve agent, because it is a nerve agent - but without mention of its origin - the food poisoning.
The nerve agent claim was released by police on March 7, three days after the incident.
According to the Daily Mail article mentioned above, the hospital alarmed the police the day after, on March 5, when the staff became aware of Skripal's 'spy credentials', probably through BBC which first brought the news. This means Porton Down at the most had two days from first tests to the conclusion 'nerve agent' announced on the 7th.
This also implies that the hospital probably treated the Skripals for a food poisoning from the start, until they became aware of Skripals credentials the day after. This fits with the letter to the Times from Stephen Davies, the hospital doctor.
(The timeline used above is from the Associated Press' Key moments in the case of former spy Sergei Skripal.)
The media storm had been going on for a week when Theresa May on March 12 entered parliament and announced the 'Novichok'. The blame had been on Russia from the first moment.
Speculation:
Now suppose the government in the meantime had become aware they had a weak case from the start - because they had rushed Porton Down to a premature conclusion?
There would be no way back for May. The die had been cast. The government had walked out on a limb from the start, now they had to continue the theater by naming the agent.
No nerve agent would suit their narrative better than 'Novichok'. Developed in USSR, a substance with some foggy features and many variants - as opposed to other more well known agents with distinct features. And most important an agent that is not listed in OPCW and which was deliberately chosen to confuse. [b adds: 'Novichok' was also known to the British and U.S. public as a 'fearsome Russian agent' through a current spy drama on TV. It increased the propaganda value.]
The initial reluctance to involve the OPCW also fits into this picture: the decision to involve OPCW came after May had landed the Novichok claim in parliament on March 12.
The day before, on March 11, police found traces of a nerve agent in the Zizzi restaurant.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/04/890.jpg
Note that the police inside is unprotected - bigger. Did they find the mussel in the risotto? Or 'Novichok'?
More than three weeks into the investigation this is, as far as I know, the only confirmed police find of traces of the nerve agent. Zizzi fits in perfectly as the origin of the poisoning considering the 40 minutes it took before the Skripals passed out on the bench. Though I wonder how a "military grade nerve agent", destined to kill instantly on the battlefield, took that long to incapacitate the Skripals.
I am no doctor, nor a specialist in chemistry - only a retired journalist working with open sources. There are so many curiosities with this case, so many speculations, ...
re

---

MoA - The Best Explanation For The Skripal Drama Is Still ... Food Poisoning

March 8	-	Poisioned British-Russian Double-Agent Has Links To Clinton Campaign
March 12	-	Theresa May's "45 Minutes" Moment
March 14	-	Are 'Novichok' Poisons Real? - May's Claims Fall Apart
March 16	-	The British Government's 'Novichok' Drama Was Written By Whom?
March 18	-	NHS Doctor: "No Patients Have Experienced Symptoms Of Nerve Agent Poisoning In Salisbury"
March 21	-	Russian Scientists Explain 'Novichok' - High Time For Britain To Come Clean (Updated)
March 29	-	Last Act Of 'Novichok' Drama Revealed - "The Skripals' Resurrection"
March 31	-	Hillary Clinton Ordered Diplomats To Suppress 'Novichok' Discussions
April 3	-	Operation Hades Blamed Russia - A Model For The 'Novichok' Claims?
April 4	-	It's The Cover-Up" - UK Foreign Office Deletes Tweet, Posts False Transcript, Issues New Lies
April 5	-	Novi-Fog™ In Fleet Street - Truth Cut Off