Thread: Hostages held in siege in Martin Place, Sydney in lockdown

Originally Posted by sabang

Australians Reveal Themselves To Be A Class Act, Even In The Face Of Tragedy. #illridewithyou

A progressive western society should be leading the way with discouraging the wearing of overtly religious clothing in public. This is encouraging muslims to flaunt their religion as a matter of public pride. Religion should be encouraged to be seen as an increasingly private matter as we move towards a time when religion can be treated like smoking and generally discouraged as bad for your mental health.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Bliar and Bush both sought comfort from their religious beliefs that they were right. But then, I don't think the Iranian was a religious person as such. Allah to him was just a means to get pussy.

Come off it!

Blair became a Xtian after sanctioning the murder of Kelly, just one big guilt trip which he'll never get over.

Bush, just like Paisley of NI tried to whip up religious fervour to get the troops out, the phoney bastard.

The Iranian in this hostage deal was no more nor less "religious" than the other two.

All three are mouthers of obsequious bullshit masquerading as idealistic god fearing religious principle when in fact they were simply amateur puppet masters of a bunch of lost sheep.

None of their objectives worked out, long and short term, all three turned out to be frauds and failures.

Read about it.

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by sabang

Australians Reveal Themselves To Be A Class Act, Even In The Face Of Tragedy. #illridewithyou

A progressive western society should be leading the way with discouraging the wearing of overtly religious clothing in public. This is encouraging muslims to flaunt their religion as a matter of public pride. Religion should be encouraged to be seen as an increasingly private matter as we move towards a time when religion can be treated like smoking and generally discouraged as bad for your mental health.

Who the hell wears "overtly religious clothing" in public other than clerics and of course,.....wait for it............ragheads........... and a few Hare Krsna freaks et al.

It's up to the ragheads to pull their necks in.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Ultimately, the folks who gain power and money from religion are the problem.

Yer onto it!

What beats me is why a sniper wasn't ordered.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by JayZee

To begin with, it was unknown if the gunman had an accomplice who may have already been in the cafe;
Shooting through glass carries the risk of deflecting and deforming the round, thus triggering an unwanted response from the hostage taker.

Negligible at that distance. A Barrett 50 cal with metal caps would deviate an inch or less. Maybe hurt a few hostages with glass splinters, but that's better than dying, and I doubt Health and Safety would have objected.

Really? I've fired a fair few guns in my time, but wouldn't have a clue what a round like that would do through a plate glass window...

Harry playing armchair Rambo here. No modern SWAT team would ever use a Barrett .50 in an urban hostage rescue situation. That round is so powerful that it would kill the terrorist and anything behind them as well. Sort of like using a chainsaw to cut butter.

They had complete control of the premises and the surrounding area, so that doesn't matter a jot. One shot would have been messy but done the job.

They bottled it, and one hopes it's a lesson learned.

What nonsense you spout Harry. The hostages were not restrained, the premises were controlled by the Iranian and no one but a total idiot would fire off a .50 cal. round through a plate glass window in the vague hope it won't also hit one of the hostages.
It ain't mandatory to be thick to post here but some could be excused for thinking otherwise.
Armchair warriors rule, eh?

They could have taken the guy out earlier, they would have had eyes and ears inside.
At the opportune time, flash bangs through the window, a sniper with a shot takes the guy out, or they breach the building.
But that's a political call, someone has to give the order, bet the cop were ready to go, but the minister wouldn't give the go ahead.

^And how exactly would "they have had eyes and ears inside"?

You watch a lot of TV cop shows, Jim?

Originally Posted by jamescollister

They could have taken the guy out earlier,.......
But that's a political call, someone has to give the order, bet the cop were ready to go, but the minister wouldn't give the go ahead.

More than likely.

Now which minister was in charge of that?

Forget his religious motivation. The pertinent question is why was this psyhco criminal on bail.

The folks who allowed this to happen should have their asses kicked and thrown in the slammer for aiding and abetting.

Originally Posted by Norton

Forget his religious motivation. The pertinent question is why was this psyhco criminal on bail.

A-fricking-men.

Couldn't agree more.

Reading this fucking lunatic's Islamic headbangers previous record ,I just cannot comprehend as to just why he was free to walk the streets , of course some of the usual left wing handwringers such a PSUEUDODO may say he had "rights" and blame it all on the Israeli's or the US which is just "par the course", and true to form others will complain to the MODS that this thread is in the wrong section of this forum to try and silence me ,does it make me angry ? ,nah not one bit , just a feeling of extreme pity on them that thanks to these kunts who try and stifle free speech that eventually the ragheads will win the war, ya know the war(Jihad) they have declared on us the infidelMartin Place gunman deranged, deluded and dangerous

no room to lock up every chav/bogan who posts a photo on facebook

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

^And how exactly would "they have had eyes and ears inside"?

You watch a lot of TV cop shows, Jim?

I can go buy a directional mic from my local electronics shop, point it at a widow and hear what's being said. Fiber optic cameras are nothing new.
Flash bangs are used often in drugs busts in the US, do you think Australia is that backward.
There are magic things like night vision scopes, plus some people may have used star trek tech. called mobile phones [cell phones] to you.
Few places now don't have CCTV and most are on line, this stops robbers from deleting the video.
If my net was faster I could watch my little rubber factory [4 cameras] in real time from any where in the world.
Jim

Originally Posted by jamescollister

They could have taken the guy out earlier, they would have had eyes and ears inside.
At the opportune time, flash bangs through the window, a sniper with a shot takes the guy out, or they breach the building.
But that's a political call, someone has to give the order, bet the cop were ready to go, but the minister wouldn't give the go ahead.

Quite extraordinary how you can draw on a breadth of experience derived from the prison service and a few years as a plod.

But, shall we just analyse what you have just said for a moment.

Eyes and ears inside: You mean a person who could relay information to another? How did they provide the means to communicate their information? Or are you saying they equipped a hostage beforehand with remarkable foresight? Or, are you saying they have ultra powerful parabolic listening devices that can detect a sparrow's fart through concrete walls and plate glass windows? Or, you mean those infra red, ultra violet light, heat detecting, x- Ray detectors that can literally see through concrete and around corners?

At the opportune time, lob a flash bang through the window: ah, would this be the open window that is not fitted to the premises. Or do you mean take two men wish a sledgehammer to smash through the plate glass windows or plate glass doors and while they are doing that one hopes he does't shoot a) one of the policemen or b) 5 hostages. But, hang on, the whole point of the flash bangs is to take the guy by surprise and stun him before he can kill anyone. Umm, I see bit of a problem here in that the police smashing the plate glass windows might alert him and, well, give him time to kill a few while he can.

Breach the building: what, drive an armoured personnel carrier through the plate glass windows and by the time it comes to rest hope the guy hasn't noticed as you faff about in the dust and debris and eventually locate him by which time he has killed 5 hostages?

Look, if the guy wasn't so useless and had been better equipped the death toll would have been considerably higher. Accept it and leave the SAS fantasy alone.

not to mention that he claimed he had placed explosives in the cafe, which he might have even been wearing on a bomb belt, with his finger on the detonator.

shooting him from outside the building was never an option.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Originally Posted by jamescollister

They could have taken the guy out earlier, they would have had eyes and ears inside.
At the opportune time, flash bangs through the window, a sniper with a shot takes the guy out, or they breach the building.
But that's a political call, someone has to give the order, bet the cop were ready to go, but the minister wouldn't give the go ahead.

Quite extraordinary how you can draw on a breadth of experience derived from the prison service and a few years as a plod.

But, shall we just analyse what you have just said for a moment.

Eyes and ears inside: You mean a person who could relay information to another? How did they provide the means to communicate their information? Or are you saying they equipped a hostage beforehand with remarkable foresight? Or, are you saying they have ultra powerful parabolic listening devices that can detect a sparrow's fart through concrete walls and plate glass windows? Or, you mean those infra red, ultra violet light, heat detecting, x- Ray detectors that can literally see through concrete and around corners?

At the opportune time, lob a flash bang through the window: ah, would this be the open window that is not fitted to the premises. Or do you mean take two men wish a sledgehammer to smash through the plate glass windows or plate glass doors and while they are doing that one hopes he does't shoot a) one of the policemen or b) 5 hostages. But, hang on, the whole point of the flash bangs is to take the guy by surprise and stun him before he can kill anyone. Umm, I see bit of a problem here in that the police smashing the plate glass windows might alert him and, well, give him time to kill a few while he can.

Breach the building: what, drive an armoured personnel carrier through the plate glass windows and by the time it comes to rest hope the guy hasn't noticed as you faff about in the dust and debris and eventually locate him by which time he has killed 5 hostages?

Look, if the guy wasn't so useless and had been better equipped the death toll would have been considerably higher. Accept it and leave the SAS fantasy alone.

What are you on about, open window concrete wall.
Put a glass to a concrete wall, you can hear what's being said on the other side.
Flash bangs can/are fired from launchers.

Grenade, Launcher: Non-Lethal, Distraction, XM98 &
Grenade, Launcher: Non-Lethal, Blunt Trauma, XM99
The XM98 Distraction Grenade uses a pyrotechnic charge for crowd control through audio and visual stimuli. The XM99 Blunt Trauma Grenade uses a pyrotechnic charge to discharge 32 cal rubber balls and achieve crowd control through audio, visual, and physical stimuli. The XM98 and XM99 use a common design. In the XM98 grenade, an inert ballast is substituted for the rubber balls.

These rounds are designed to be fired from 80 to 100 meters. They deliver a flash bang diversionary warning (M98), a payload of rubber nonpenetrating projectiles (M99) (affecting a 10- to 20-meter circular area), or CS/cinnamic acid (CA) practice below the point of burst (L96A1/L97A1). These munitions lack the ability to be precision-delivered and are meant to affect a large number of people at long standoff ranges. This provides convoys and crowd control formations a long range support weapon to affect crowds beyond the range of shoulder-fired nonlethal weapons. Use the rounds to provide supporting nonlethal fires to crowd control formations.

The XM98/XM99 program is a joint Army/Marine development program. The U.S. Army Military Police is the lead user.

Catch up with the times.

Originally Posted by taxexile

not to mention that he claimed he had placed explosives in the cafe, which he might have even been wearing on a bomb belt, with his finger on the detonator.

shooting him from outside the building was never an option.

That's probably the same shit they gave the families of the two dead hostages.

Don't fuck about with these people. You might get the odd de Menezes, but under the circumstances, that's acceptable collateral as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by taxexile

not to mention that he claimed he had placed explosives in the cafe, which he might have even been wearing on a bomb belt, with his finger on the detonator.

shooting him from outside the building was never an option.

Guy had a shotgun, not an assault rife, yet he got his hands on Semtex.
Now if he had been packing a pressure cooker, different story.

I feel you throttlers do not really know how the system works in Australia.

Our criminal laws are so piss weak and the lawyers get payed so much money Hitler would be considered innocent hence why violent and mad people tend to wander the street.

This radical Mo Fo was no different then the numerous nut cases roaming free in our society. Pathetic insipid legal system with puss sucking high payed lawyers setting free the scum of society who inflict further damage on our society.

Fuk this shit, just bang the fukers up.

This nutter was able to do this because of Australia's legal system, easy as that .

Had fuk all to do with terrorism or fundamentalism but merely the rantings of a fukin nut case who was free to continue on with his ranting.

No wonder the country is fuked EH.

A little trip out the back and one bullet would of prevented this.

"Non - penetrating payload" was the key there, Mr Collister.

Slight hiccup in the thesis I would have thought.

" Well, me old cobber, digger, matey, we fired off the MXq 989103738593 Fuck 'em up blind and piss them orf Anti - Nasty personal discombobulating Crowd Pleaser, but blow me, the fucker bounced off the bladdy window and now the ambulance boys are all wandering around like they're auditioning for the Night of the Living Dead. Whaddya reckon next?"

Blow me, ain't this a bladdy barbie short of a prawn night, innit?

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

Look, if the guy wasn't so useless and had been better equipped the death toll would have been considerably higher. Accept it and leave the SAS fantasy alone.

I mean, one cannot argue with this EH.

If the nutter was serious he would of just blown every hostage to kingdom come and then had a nice cup of Tea before being topped by the pigs.

This guy was simply delusional and not a serious threat to the broad society.

In saying that, I mean he was known as a serious threat to society but was not able to be contained under our pathetic laws.

Really does shit me no end our pathetic system.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

yet he got his hands on Semtex.

Semtex???? What Semtex????? There were NO explosives found. You have totally lost the plot, Jim.

Originally Posted by Seekingasylum

"Non - penetrating payload" was the key there, Mr Collister.

Slight hiccup in the thesis I would have thought.

" Well, me old cobber, digger, matey, we fired off the MXq 989103738593 Fuck 'em up blind and piss them orf Anti - Nasty personal discombobulating Crowd Pleaser, but blow me, the fucker bounced off the bladdy window and now the ambulance boys are all wandering around like they're auditioning for the Night of the Living Dead. Whaddya reckon next?"

Blow me, ain't this a bladdy barbie short of a prawn night, innit?

It's a glass window, what are you on about, could smash it with a brick, never mine a grenade launcher.