RIP Bitcoin

**Luigi** · 07-02-2018, 09:29 AM

A good little story on how crazy the game is.

https://news.sky.com/story/bitcoin-b...lapse-11238898

Bitcoin buyer 'loses $440,000' in matter of weeks after sudden collapse

Alix, who has no background in finance or computers, dived into bitcoin after reading reports about it in the media.
18:00, UK,Tuesday 06 February 2018

Image:Alix's bitcoin holdings dropped $440,000 in value in a matter of weeks following the sudden collapse of the cryptocurrency.

Alix, who did not want to give his full name, saw the value of his bitcoin drop from almost $600,000 at Christmas to $160,000 this week.

Despite the fall, he says he is confident about his investment, and that he believes bitcoin's peak is still a long way off.
"I started in September 2017 with about $41,000 invested and it gradually hit almost $600,000 around Christmas, which was awesome. But now it's $160,000.

"I'm not worried about losing all my money. It won't vanish into thin air, it will have its peaks and troughs, there is going to be mass influxes and mass exoduses of money."

Bitcoin fell as low as $5,920 (£4,250) on Tuesday, according to Bitstamp Exchange, down 13% on the previous day amid worries about a global regulatory clampdown.The decline comes following a huge surge in 2017, when it started the year at about $900 (£650) and went on to top $20,000 (£14,400) in December.

Alix, from London, says he is not worried.

Despite having having no financial or computing background, he says he decided to invest in bitcoin last year as he started to read more and more about it in the media.

"It's crazy because it's something that I never thought I'd be involved in," he says.
"I first bought bitcoin when it was about $3,000 a coin. I bought about half a bitcoin to start with. Then I went on to purchase about 10 more."

Image:Alix says he isn't worried about losing all of his money
Alix's app is open during our interview, and it is shocking to see the big value figure of his 'wallet' jumping around every few seconds.

It jumps between $165,000 and down to $151,000 in the blink of an eye. Alix doesn't flinch.
"The money that I've earned in crypto, I've kept in crypto," he says.

"There is no reason for me to take it out. I have a job so this is extra money for me. I don't need this money to rely on. The advice I would give is do your research and only put in as much as you are willing to lose."

It's clear that Alix has bought into the crypto culture and is not just in it for the speculative gains. He shows me how he has spent bitcoin on various real-life products and truly thinks it's the future.

**Luigi** · 07-02-2018, 09:36 AM

Sounds like the money 'lost' is just profit that has gone down by that much.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 09:42 AM

It jumps between $165,000 and down to $151,000 in the blink of an eye. Alix doesn't flinch

[...]

He shows me how he has spent bitcoin on various real-life products...

See this is the part I don't get.

Someone, either the buyer or seller, is losing out big time there.

How do you even price something in bitcoin if it's fluctuating so wildly: 'That'll be 12 BTC thanks...oh wait no, I mean 10... nope 17...oh fuck it, 289 and make it quick!'

**Luigi** · 07-02-2018, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Someone, either the buyer or seller, is losing out big time there.

Only if they're buying or selling. But even then, not really.

Or to be more exact, selling at a price lower then they bought at, or buying it at a price that's higher than they can sell at.

If he bought at 40k and sells at 151k, he's made nice money.

If the buyer at 151k sells for 300k in a month or three, they've made nice money.

**uncle junior** · 07-02-2018, 09:52 AM

It's more like gold than a currency. If you're paying somebody in nuggets they're gonna check the current value first.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 09:53 AM

Ah yeah but I don't mean trading in BTC itself, but actually using it for what it was designed for: buying goods and services.

Near as I can tell it has become a commodity in and of itself so is practically useless for that currently.

**Fluke** · 07-02-2018, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by uncle junior

It's more like gold than a currency. If you're paying somebody in nuggets they're gonna check the current value first.

Is it real gold or just fools gold though ?

**Luigi** · 07-02-2018, 09:58 AM

The only way I would use it as a currency would be for:International purchases, international money transfers etc, as it cuts out all international transfer fees etc etc and is also instant.That's brilliant.Also for buying meth off dodgy blokes. As it's nameless.But even for either of those I would use an Alt, as BTC to BTC wallet transfer cost is high.

**uncle junior** · 07-02-2018, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Fluke

Is it real gold or just fools gold though ?

Depends on what price you sell it at.

**longway** · 07-02-2018, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Farangrakthai

IMO, crypto won't replace fiat; though, it'll act like coupons/tokens once did (in a small way).

distributed ledger and blockchain will become widespread though, underneath the technology we're using (won't "see" it).

Well, it depends on whether will become a recognised unit of account. Currently USD is widely recognised and stable enough to be used as the unit of account in world trade, it is also very badly managed and a better managed crypto could well end up replacing it. I think I posted a link where someone was developing a crypto who basis of value was directly correlated to real world productivity. These are are all kinds of ways this tech can be used.

Also the token economy, imo will become massive, there is so much corruption and mismanagement in the world of banking and fiat currency that there is a massive demand to provide an adjunct to them.

To remind you of an earlier discussion, you cant run a block-chain without a crypto-currency to secure it.

**jabir** · 07-02-2018, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Ah yeah but I don't mean trading in BTC itself, but actually using it for what it was designed for: buying goods and services.

Near as I can tell it has become a commodity in and of itself so is practically useless for that currently.

An increasing number of goods and service providers accept more than one coin; if you pay for a meal with BTC, the rate will be calculated in real time and that's what you pay. Tomorrow your cost could vary for the same meal/service.

**baldrick** · 07-02-2018, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by longway

, you cant run a block-chain without a crypto-currency to secure it

That is incorrect

The currency is just incentive for others to run the nodes for you

**Luigi** · 07-02-2018, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by jabir

if you pay for a meal with BTC, the rate will be calculated in real time and that's what you pay. Tomorrow your cost could vary for the same meal/service.

A bit like Lily Allen who turned down a BTC payment of 200,000 BTC for an online concert a few years ago.

Value in December 2017: $390,000,0000

Or the guy that bought a pizza with 10,000 BTC.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by jabir

An increasing number of goods and service providers accept more than one coin; if you pay for a meal with BTC, the rate will be calculated in real time and that's what you pay. Tomorrow your cost could vary for the same meal/service.

Yeah, that was exactly my point.

One of the diner or restaurant inevitably loses on that deal.

**lob** · 07-02-2018, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

See this is the part I don't get.

Someone, either the buyer or seller, is losing out big time there.

How do you even price something in bitcoin if it's fluctuating so wildly: 'That'll be 12 BTC thanks...oh wait no, I mean 10... nope 17...oh fuck it, 289 and make it quick!'

this post flags up why u cant add anything constructive to a thread. and only try to deride certain types that continually take your playground bait, yes u have all the playground comebacks. but obviously cant understand the facts. one fact being,,, u are a fucking moron. oh and over and out

**jabir** · 07-02-2018, 11:09 AM

Or the guy that bought a pizza with 10,000 BTC.

The pizza shop owner's probably kicking himself silly for buying a block of cheese with that 10k BTC; wondering what the cheese seller bought with it.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by lob

this post flags up why u cant add anything constructive to a thread. and only try to deride certain types that continually take your playground bait, yes u have all the playground comebacks. but obviously cant understand the facts. one fact being,,, u are a fucking moron. oh and over and out

Err, what?

Did you actually read the post or just get angry because it had my name on it.

Either way you should probably take a few deep breaths there, Mr. Angry.

**jabir** · 07-02-2018, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Yeah, that was exactly my point.

One of the diner or restaurant inevitably loses on that deal.

As with any exchange deal one side loses out as soon as rates change, but you paying current value.

**PlanK** · 07-02-2018, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Ah yeah but I don't mean trading in BTC itself, but actually using it for what it was designed for: buying goods and services.

Near as I can tell it has become a commodity in and of itself so is practically useless for that currently.

Yup, that's pretty much BTC. It's only usecase is as a speculative vehicle.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by jabir

Not really, you are paying current value; as with any exchange deal one side loses out as soon as rates change.

Well no, because cash and credit don't fluctuate wildly from one day to the next.

If you accept $20 for your goods or services from someone you can be 100% sure that you are going to be banking $20 the next day or the day after or...

Originally Posted by Plan B

Yup, that's pretty much BTC. It's only usecase is as a speculative vehicle.

Aye, that's what confusses me. It's a commodity for trade and has little use or utility in the real world (yet) so... what's the value.

**PlanK** · 07-02-2018, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Aye, that's what confusses me. It's a commodity for trade and has little use or utility in the real world (yet) so... what's the value.

For people like Earl it has value as a currency for the people that's not manipulated by big money to screw over the little people to make more money with.

For big money it has value as a currency they can manipulate to screw over the little people to make more money with.

**AntRobertson** · 07-02-2018, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Plan B

For people like Earl it has value as a currency for the people that's not manipulated by big money to screw over the little people to make more money with.

For big money it has value as a currency they can manipulate to screw over the little people to make more money with.

Ahh... well that makes sense. Sort of.

I still need to do a lot more research because I keep getting stuck on that point.

With hindsight (and the apparent anger my query caused) might not have been the best time to ask either. Should've waited until it was on an uptick.

**PlanK** · 07-02-2018, 11:32 AM

Consider that people here are invested for different reasons, and what your investor profile might be:

Ethical
Technical
Short term gain
Long term hold
Seriously in it to make money
Here to have a laugh
And more categories and sub categories I can't think of right now.

Your interest could span from the hardware aspect through to helping the unbanked in Africa. There's much more to it than Bitcon.

**longway** · 07-02-2018, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by baldrick

That is incorrect

The currency is just incentive for others to run the nodes for you

Are we debating semantics?

You can run a blockchain without a currency, but its not usable in a permisionless ecosystem, if you run the nodes, you don't need a blockchain to have a decetralised ledger, the currency is what secures the validity of the transactions on the blockchain.

**Bogon** · 07-02-2018, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by jabir

As with any exchange deal one side loses out as soon as rates change, but you paying current value.

This is what is confusing me too. When purchsing goods or services priced in Bitcoin, what is the value? This is because Bitcoins are priced in $US.

For example, Say I buy a car for 0.637485939292 bitcoin in Spain. They convert the price into $US and then convert again to Euro?

...or would the car would obviously be priced in Euros, so they have to convert to $US, and then to Bitcoin to get the final price?

Either way, you're gonna start losing with commissions and exchange rates.

...I think???

Thread: RIP Bitcoin

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions