Thread: NZ woman in Thailand food poisoning death

^ You need to be more obvious than that Bob, some folks still don't get it.

Those who still don't understand would probably not benefit from the information.

Bob being a royal pain in the arse as usual.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What I'm upset about is that at least two people may have died needlessly. And your own quoted text contains the following:

18 Manifestations of extrapulmonary legionellosis may include the following:

• Prosthetic valve endocarditis
• Myocarditis
• Pericarditis
• Postcardiotomy syndrome

Which seems at odds with the statement:

Since Sarah Carter and the couple who died both had heart pathology that (and other reasons, see above) seems to rule out Legionella.

After three weeks, they must know the answer, the question is who is covering it up and why? This is not a medical mystery, therefore it doesn't take sleuthing. It's a crime is what it is. And yes, I will be visiting them because I'm supposed to be staying there in August, and will want answers before I make my booking (of course I have no intention of making one any more).

Given the response of the Scandinavians in the Phuket outbreak, the British and Kiwi response by comparison is absolutely fucking pitiful.

The British and NZ response is realistic. There is food poisoning even in Christchurch every day. Accidents happen. Thailand is cleaner than well say... oh that would lead to another flame war. For the record those scandinavians need their travel insurance claims backed up and they get more than 10 years salary in isaan

Originally Posted by blue

I never heard about that death
its unsubstantiated , just from a forum like here .

I see, just because you have not heard of these deaths means that it didn't happen....

I read another article which stated that a total of 4 people died at this hotel in a 1 week period, all within days of the NZ woman's death...

Originally Posted by Muadib

Originally Posted by blue

I never heard about that death
its unsubstantiated , just from a forum like here .

I see, just because you have not heard of these deaths means that it didn't happen....

I read another article which stated that a total of 4 people died at this hotel in a 1 week period, all within days of the NZ woman's death...

yes from Bangkok Post
1 . Feb 3 Thai tour guide Waraporn Yingmahasaranont, 47,
2. Feb 18 Sarah Carter, 23,
3 & 4 . Feb 19 George Everly, 78, and Elean Everly, 74,

The other 'death' of an American , was just 'reported ' by a poster , on someones blog .
Me saying i had never heard of it, was just my way of saying its probably bollox

Joking apart... nothing more to it

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

The American who supposedly died from food poisoning in Chiang Mai is alleged to have died on Jan 11. I base this solely on info below and don't know if it is true. Info below comes from url
http://www.thailawforum.com/blog/dea...ty-in-thailand
I tried emailing "Barbara Lee' but couldn't find her email address. If you type "Barbara Lee Chiang Mai" up comes some info indicating time spent in Asia, possibly as a tour guide. I will try contacting her again and let Teakdoor know what I find out.

Originally Posted by guyinthailand

I found this post on thailawforum.com under a discussion of the recent Chiang Mai deaths of 4 people staying at the Downtown Inn. Her mentioning of another (food?) poisoning death in Chiang Mai on Jan 11 is noteworthy. Was this death mentioned on Teakdoor anywhere?
"Barbara Lee March 2, 2011 at 1:56 am Readers need to be aware that an American died in Chiang Mai on 1/11/11 as a result of food poisoning. The Thai media failed to report this death. There are dots not being connected by the media or the local health officials. Or if the dots ARE being connected, the public is not being properly informed of the food safety risks in Chiang Mai."

Police have ruled out robbery as a possible cause as the rooms of the guests who died at the hotel had been locked from the inside and none of their valuables were missing.

Yes, you have to watch those robbers who, instead of bludgeoning, stabbing or shooting you, choose to end your life with an infection.

What do the muggers do here, threaten to sneeze at you?

I see they are at least now mentioning Legionella, but why are the police still commenting on this? It should be under investigation from the relevant Health departments, not some clueless copper. And have they checked other water sources such as the pool?

Who owns The Empress Hotel Group?

The incubation period is 3-6 days on average. Possible complications fit the profile of three of the victims. Providing the bodies have not been cremated, they should be able to test for it.

However, I'm hearing that the press conference is basically a big fudge, understandable in view of the owner, so it does sound to me like a right royal fuck up. One can only hope the NZ and British health authorities do proper autopsies.

I think you can be fairly certain the Thais won't.

guyinthailand

a little confusing reading your posts - you link to deaths on Phi Phi but four times you refer to deaths on Samui??

Re pesticides - we live rural, woman neighbour was out on Sunday no gloves/facemask, happily spraying paraquat. Amazing stuff, weeds/grass were fried and dry enough to burn off the following evening.

Originally Posted by genghis61

guyinthailand

a little confusing reading your posts - you link to deaths on Phi Phi but four times you refer to deaths on Samui??

Oops, sorry, my mistake: I meant Phi Phi---not Samui. I've corrected it where I could still edit. Thanks.

^ cheers; wasn't sure what the time limit was for editing own posts. I remembered the Phi Phi ones from when we lived Phuket - but hadn't heard of deaths on Samui. Easy fixed!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10711193

Another mystery death in Thailand

By Stuart Dye
5:21 PM Wednesday Mar 9, 2011


Mariam Soraya Vorster, left, died mysteriously in Chiang Mai just weeks before New Zealander Sarah Carter, right. Photos / Supplied

A fifth tourist has died in Chiang Mai, Thailand, in circumstances eerily similar to New Zealander Sarah Carter's mysterious death - which health officials initially blamed on food poisoning.

American Mariam Soraya Vorster, a 33-year-old from Seattle working as a guide in Chiang Mai, died on January 11 - just over three weeks before 23-year-old Sarah died.

Ms Vorster's husband Tony Pandolo told the Herald his wife was perfectly fit and healthy and became sick with symptoms of food poisoning before she died.

"I kept asking about the health department, or what the next steps would be with the restaurant," Mr Pandolo said. "No one really seemed to know, and it turns out no one really did anything.

"Soraya had an autopsy at University Hospital in Chiang Mai on January 12 or 13 and we still have no results."

Ms Vorster's death is one of five in a six-week spell in Chiang Mai.

Local woman Waraporn Pungmahisiranon died two days before Sarah and British pensioners George and Eileen Everitt died less than two weeks later.

Those deaths were all in the same hotel - the Downtown Inn.

Mr Pandolo said his wife was staying in a different hotel, but the symptoms were the same.

At a press conference in Bangkok yesterday, Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul said: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another are nothing more than coincidence.

"We have done and will continue to do our utmost to make tourists confident in our city."

The press conference was told Mr and Mrs Everitt, 78 and 74, died within minutes of each other of heart attacks.

The couple's son Stephen Everitt yesterday told the Herald that was not a believable explanation.

"They had no history of heart problems or any other problems," said Mr Everitt from his home in Lincolnshire.

"They were active and healthy for their age and it has come as a total shock.

"And now they want me to believe they both had heart attacks at the same time. It doesn't make sense. How can it be coincidence?"

Yesterday's press conference, which did not include details of Ms Vorster's death, was told tests were still being conducted into Sarah's death.

Tests on tissue taken from Sarah Carter had been inconclusive and samples had been sent for analysis to the United States and Japan, said Dr. Pasakorn Akaraseri, of the Communicable Disease Department of Thailand's Ministry of Health.

He said there was no evidence to suggest that any of the deaths were as a result of the guests eating food bought at the local market or on the street.

Sarah and two friends - Amanda Eliason and Emma Langlands - became sick in the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai on February 4. Sarah died in hospital two days later.

Amanda and Emma recovered and are now back in New Zealand.

Richard Carter, Sarah's father, said the press conference was a "fob off".

"It doesn't sound like there's any real investigation going on here.

"You start to wonder how many other deaths there have been that are being swept under the carpet."

Mr Carter said the New Zealand Government needed to put on more pressure to find out how many similar deaths there had been in the last few years so travellers could make informed decisions.

"At the moment it's pot luck. People head off on holiday and then 'bang' they're dead."

Foreign Minister Murray McCully said the comments from the press conference were "not wholly convincing and we intend to give them closer scrutiny".

"We will look into the matter further. I gather there is still some work being done of a forensic nature of some samples and we are looking forward to seeing that material too.

"It's clear that we need to ask some more questions."

Asked if the Government would launch its own inquiry Mr McCully said that was too early to consider.

"Let's not get ahead of ourselves, let's just ask the questions methodically as we go forward... Clearly the obvious questions need to be asked and answered fully."


- additional reporting Andrew Drummond, NZPA

At a press conference in Bangkok yesterday, Chiang Mai Governor Pannada Disakul said: "We have to admit that these deaths coming one after another are nothing more than coincidence.

There's your fudge.

Or as the victim's father says:

Richard Carter, Sarah's father, said the press conference was a "fob off".

"It doesn't sound like there's any real investigation going on here.

"You start to wonder how many other deaths there have been that are being swept under the carpet."

Mr Carter said the New Zealand Government needed to put on more pressure to find out how many similar deaths there had been in the last few years so travellers could make informed decisions.

"At the moment it's pot luck. People head off on holiday and then 'bang' they're dead."

Foreign Minister Murray McCully said the comments from the press conference were "not wholly convincing and we intend to give them closer scrutiny".

"We will look into the matter further. I gather there is still some work being done of a forensic nature of some samples and we are looking forward to seeing that material too.

"It's clear that we need to ask some more questions."

Originally Posted by blue

Originally Posted by Muadib

Originally Posted by blue

I never heard about that death
its unsubstantiated , just from a forum like here .

I see, just because you have not heard of these deaths means that it didn't happen....

I read another article which stated that a total of 4 people died at this hotel in a 1 week period, all within days of the NZ woman's death...

yes from Bangkok Post
1 . Feb 3 Thai tour guide Waraporn Yingmahasaranont, 47,
2. Feb 18 Sarah Carter, 23,
3 & 4 . Feb 19 George Everly, 78, and Elean Everly, 74,

The other 'death' of an American , was just 'reported ' by a poster , on someones blog .
Me saying i had never heard of it, was just my way of saying its probably bollox

Not only did that post that I found on thailawforum saying a farang had died in Chiang Mai on Jan 11 prove to be correct, it turns out she was a tour guide, as was the Thai woman who died a few weeks later. *Two* tour guides. What are the chances of that being a coincidence?

Is it my imagination or are a high percentage of the victims on Koh Phi Phi and, now, Chiang Mai, are lovely young Western women tourists?

Originally Posted by Little Chuchok

Who owns The Empress Hotel Group?

Somebody must know...

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

The press conference was told Mr and Mrs Everitt, 78 and 74, died within minutes of each other of heart attacks. The couple's son Stephen Everitt yesterday told the Herald that was not a believable explanation. "They had no history of heart problems or any other problems," said Mr Everitt from his home in Lincolnshire.
"They were active and healthy for their age and ithas come as a total shock.
"And now they want me to believe they both had heart attacks at the same time. It doesn't make sense. How can it be coincidence?"

Note that poisoning by pesticides can take minutes to hours or longer. But poisoning by cyanide takes seconds to minutes and cyanide is, as DirtyDog reported, readily available for a 100 baht in your local Thai hardware store (and looks like sugar). Moreover, emergency room personel--doctors--can often mistake cyanide poisoning for a heart attack.
"However, a rapidly fatal (death) from cyanide salts in an adult patient easily might be attributed to sudden death from myocardial infarction, pulmonary embolus, or ventricular dysrhythmia."

Toxicity, Cyanide: eMedicine Emergency Medicine

If someone were murdering tourists in Thailand there is no reason to believe he or she would use the same 'weapon' each time. In any event, two of the Koh Phi Phi deaths, Jill and Julie, were found to be probably from pesticides (they found elevated levels of cholinesterase inhibitors in their blood, a tell-tale sign of pesticide poisoning). I've watched the Thais breathe pesticides all day long as they spray it, and they come home really sick, and get up and go to work the next day--and die years later. I'm venturing a 'guess' here that Julie and Jill on Koh Phi Phi didn't die from inhaling it. They died from ingesting it.

So anytime I hear the Thais say "the tourist died from food poisoning"--as they seem to say often--I now know to be on red alert.

Authorities in Thailand say the causes of death for three foreign tourists, including a 23-year-old New Zealander, remain unknown.

Local police and public health officials in the northern city of Chiang Mai are urging hotel owners to be cautious about food catering, and have ordered a city-wide inspection of restaurants and hotels.

Officials also say they can't confirm that food poisoning was the cause of death of New Zealander Sarah Carter.

They say more blood tests are needed from two friends who were travelling with her last month.


Food poisoning may not be cause of Kiwi's death - Thai officials - Story - National - 3 News