Thread: Investigators fail to identify killers of foreign journalists

.....

One important thing I have learnt over the years about the cultural differences between farangs and Thais is their propensity to lie blatantly without any conscience what so ever. It actually seems to be a commendable and acceptable trait among the Thais if it can gain some advantage. Is it any wonder their police, legal, military and political systems are totally corrupt?

Even if this thing did get as far as the Wold Court, it would be a totally farsical event with so many different people telling so many conflicting lies that it would be impossible to get to the bottom of the truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Thais accept even the biggest whopper lies from their leaders, even if they dont believe a word of it.

Having read the article relating to Jatuporn and yet another of his accusations, maybe i shouldn't be surprised, however, he probably will need to go a long, long way to outshine this little gem.

When is the last time the World Court ever issued a ruling that anyone ever paid any attention to, least those accused/convicted?

SNAP QUIZ: Name me three World Court rulings - without Googling or checking Wiki..

Originally Posted by Panda

One important thing I have learnt over the years about the cultural differences between farangs and Thais is their propensity to lie blatantly without any conscience what so ever. It actually seems to be a commendable and acceptable trait among the Thais if it can gain some advantage. Is it any wonder their police, legal, military and political systems are totally corrupt?

Even if this thing did get as far as the Wold Court, it would be a totally farsical event with so many different people telling so many conflicting lies that it would be impossible to get to the bottom of the truth.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Thais accept even the biggest whopper lies from their leaders, even if they dont believe a word of it.

Thainess, Panda. Perhaps a gathered benefit or social detriment. Nonetheless, it is what it is - and it is Thai. One cannot place a one cultural-centred definitive or standard as to pre-displaced judgments as to cultural paradoxes. A World Court....? By whose standard would such a worldly and international tribunal be used? The attempts to homogenize multi-cultural thought into one can be quite troubling and dangerous.....as it comes back.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

I have seen the reds shooting at civilians during that day, so yes it's perfectly possible that they were shot by the reds, and not the army of course the red apologists can't resolve that, so they will go in denial mode as we know the UDD protesters were all peaceful and innocents

[QUOTE="Tom Sawyer"]Quote: Originally Posted by StrontiumDog The inquest, if launched, will pave way for the judicial involvement in dispelling lingering doubts on the cause of death, curcumstances and culprits behind the killings. The Nation

Oh sure it will, sure, sure..[/QUOTE]

Certainly agree with you, how many more of these absurd statements have to be made before it sinks in (even with people like Butterfly) that it's 100% pure unadulterated "Bullshit"?

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

I'll take a crack at it:

Thai Culture is a carefully crafted Feudalism mixed with subterfuge to obfiscate reality in order to hoodwink one's way into greater wealth whilst pretending to be happy-happy, sabai-sabai, and always doing this for others - oh and never losing the smile on your face in the process (..but only because that might give away the game)!

Howz that?

Sounds as if this description could fit throughout all social orders....if you think about it.

^
Except for the smiling pretence that they are doing it for someone else..

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

^
Except for the smiling pretence that they are doing it for someone else..

Oh, sure - such practiced character traits can be found nowhere else. Indeed..

Originally Posted by BobR

Investigators fail to identify killers of foreign journalists

Fail? I'm not sure they've really been trying.

In most if not all cases, they know exactly who the killers of the journalists are- but what did you actually expect from a DSI 'investigation'?

The main question is the one that I doubt will ever be answered- whether in some cases journalists were deliberately targeted, to cow them away from the messy live fire zones. I am not sure myself, but it is conveniently inconvenient not to have access to the photographers camera's that were so expertly pilfered.

At least the DSI can now move on, perhaps to advance it's fascinating theory that it was in fact Ninja red shirts that stealthily made their way to the skytrain tracks and sniped paramedics and protesters in the Wat.

Originally Posted by sabang

The main question is the one that I doubt will ever be answered- whether in some cases journalists were deliberately targeted, to cow them away from the messy live fire zones. I am not sure myself, but it is conveniently inconvenient not to have access to the photographers camera's that were so expertly pilfered.

Agree - that's the main questions in my mind. I suspect they were. Recall that the April footage of the France 24 cameraman was the turning point of news coverage because it revealed ISOC/CRES (and Suthep) were lying about 'not firing live rounds at the Red shirt demonstrators.' This was the same day that the Army Colonel was killed by the grenade.

It was the same cameraman for France 24 who was then shot 3 times near Lumpini Park a month later during the Army attack to clear central Bangkok.

Way too coincidental - not mention that the Army then went on to shoot three or four more photogs within 48 hours - killing at least two of them.

Wouldn't it be nice if they could invent a professional level camera that could upload photos to a satellite to transmit to another location on the fly? I'm not talking mobile phone cameras, something of better quality that wouldn't need a sat-link truck to send out the photos or even a cell tower nearby. Like an Iridium type technology but for cameras (video and still).

Or maybe there is something like this already but the cost is prohibitive for most photo-journalists. Just a thought anyways.

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

... Recall that the April footage of the France 24 cameraman was the turning point of news coverage because it revealed ISOC/CRES (and Suthep) were lying about 'not firing live rounds at the Red shirt demonstrators.' This was the same day that the Army Colonel was killed by the grenade.

It was the same cameraman for France 24 who was then shot 3 times near Lumpini Park a month later during the Army attack to clear central Bangkok.

Way too coincidental - not mention that the Army then went on to shoot three or four more photogs within 48 hours - killing at least two of them.

Here is the France 24 footage you are refereeing to. Note that what she says is it proof the troops were not "firing into the air". Note that despite the YouTube title of the clip, it does not show what they are actually shooting at, much less what they might be hitting. Nor does the commentary ever claim they were shooting live rounds into the crowd.

What it does clearly show is the Army being attacked by grenades and the aftermath of that.

Can you show a link that Nelson Rand took the footage? I hear in the clip that the cameraman was actually slightly injured in the grenade blast (27 sec), have never heard that Mr. Rand was ever injured before being shot on May 14.

Would seem your theory that Mr. Rand was targeted by the Army for the footage he took on April 10 is a just another fantasy of your overactive conspiracy oriented mind.



What Mr. Rand does say about being shot is he doesn’t know who shot him and he doesn’t care since he put himself in that position. Every witness to the shooting says it was an “exchange of gunfire” and he got caught in it.

TH

^^ I see the clowns are giving free performances again,
The world court will deal with the unelected illegal government murderers.

Originally Posted by Thaihome

Note that what she says is it proof the troops were not "firing into the air".

And 91 people were killed, mostly red shirts, mostly by gunshot.

Go figure.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/loca...-on-red-shirts

Academics question role of NGOs on red shirts

• Published: 19/09/2010 at 12:00 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Academics have questioned the "non-critical" stance taken by non-government organisations towards the recent red shirt rallies. Achara Rakyutitham, Silpakorn University's humanities lecturer, said NGOs have stayed largely silent about the 91 deaths which resulted from the violence during the April-May rallies by the red shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship.

However, some NGO activists have joined government-appointed panels probing the violence. "The NGOs have gained power through the government panels and pushed away people who have already fought for their political ideology," Ms Achara told a seminar on Thai social movements.

Pruek Taotawin, a lecturer at Ubon Ratchathani's liberal arts faculty, said most NGOs were allied to the Abhisit Vejjajiva government and the elite.
Kwanravee Vang-udom, a human rights activist, said many human rights-based NGOs performed tasks inefficiently. "One person carries too many hats and they have their own agendas.

"More recently, they've been in lopsided mode _ engaged in anti-Thaksin Shinawatra discourse," said Ms Kwanravee.

She proposed self-monitoring and internal auditing to forge self-criticism in the movement.

Kingkorn Narintornkul na Ayudhaya, an NGO activist with field experience in northern Thailand, said the NGO culture of self-praise barred self-criticism in NGOs. "Many feel numb that senior NGOs failed to question the recent crackdown and have jumped on the government's reform wagon instead," said Ms Kingkorn.

Phasuk Pongpaijit, Chulalongkorn University economics professor, said unless the government could explain the truth behind the 91 deaths, Thailand could not address its persistent social divisions. Jon Ungphakorn, an NGO veteran, said he was sick of hearing about the flaws and irrelevance of the NGO movement.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Jon Ungphakorn, an NGO veteran, said he was sick of hearing about the flaws and irrelevance of the NGO movement.

Jon Ungpakorn (Thai จอน อึ๊งภากรณ์, born September 19, 1947) is a London-born Thai non-governmental organization (NGO) executive and member of the Senate of Thailand.

He is an older brother of Peter Ungpakorn and Ji Ungpakorn, and is of Chinese-Thai and British parentage.

His father was the revered Dr Puey Ungpakorn; his mother was the former Margaret Smith of London.

In 2000 Jon Ungpakorn was elected to the Senate with the support of the NGO and HIV/AIDS communities.

In 2005 he was awarded with the Magsaysay Award for Governmental Services, exactly 40 years after his father won the award.

Jon Ungpakorn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I suspect he said more than he has been quoted for ...................

a bit more ..............

Prachatai founder Jon Ungpakorn: police charges vague
Fri, 06/03/2009

Social activist and former Senator Jon Ungpakorn says that the Prachatai website was created when Thaksin was Prime Minister, because the Thaksin administration, though elected, consistently interfered in and kept control of the media.

prachatai.com

.

Originally Posted by tomta

Originally Posted by BobR

Investigators fail to identify killers of foreign journalists

Fail? I'm not sure they've really been trying.

Maybe not, but anything including the real killer getting away is better than having it dumped onto someone who is factually innocent.

Tharit to consult DSI information panel before releasing autopsy results

The Department of Special Investigation chief said Monday that the DSI has received autopsy results of 89 people killed during the political turbulences in April and May.

But, Tharit Pengdit said, the DSI has yet to check with its information committee as to whether the autopsy results could be made public.

Tharit said the DSI has yet to work with the Office of the Attorney General, the Metropolitan Police Bureau and the Central Institute of Forensic Medicine to verify the results.

Tharit also urged the public and the Pheu Thai Party members who witnessed the killings of the 89 persons to come forward and testify to the DSI.

nationmultimedia.com

DSI urged to reveal autopsy results of Red Shirt deaths


DSI urged to reveal autopsy results of Red Shirt deaths


วันจันทร์ ที่ 20 ก.ย. 2553

• • 

BANGKOK, Sept 20 -- Relatives of those killed during the April-May protest rally by the anti-government Red Shirt group on Monday demanded the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) speed up its investigation to determine the cause of the deaths and reveal the autopsy results.

Representatives of the opposition Puea Thai Party led family members of those killed during the Red Shirt rally from April 10-May 21 to meet with DSI Director-General Tharit Pengdit to ask for progress in the investigation on the deaths of 89 people. They also questioned DSI authority in dealing with the autopsies.

Mr Tharit explained that the cases, classified as "special," were sent to the DSI by metropolitan police but details of the autopsies were inadequate.

The DSI and three other agencies--the Metropolitan Police Bureau, the Attorney General and the Central Institute of Forensic Science--have set up a working committee to conduct additional investigation within a 45-day timeframe and the work is underway, the director-general said.

Mr Tharit also called on the public and media who witnessed the incidents to give their accounts to the information centre which was opened to gather information relating to the deaths of demonstrators during the two-month rally.

The Red Shirts, the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), supporters of the ex-prime minister ousted in the 2006 coup, rallied in Bangkok during March, April, and May, calling for fresh elections.

As clashes between government security personnel occurred during the rally, and unidentified gunmen at the clash sites, more than 1,400 people were reportedly wounded and 89 people killed including Hiroyuki Muramoto, a Japanese cameraman, Polenchi Fadio, an Italian journalist and high-profile red shirt leader Maj-Gen Khattiya Swasdiphol.

The military operations to retake the protest site at the Ratchaprasong intersection on May 19 prompted the Red Shirt leaders to call off the rally, which was followed by arson at several locations in Bangkok. About 19 Red Shirt leaders are in jail for having key roles in the rally. (MCOT online news)

ttp://www.nationmultimedia.com/home...-30138394.html

BANGKOK VIOLENCE
DSI undecided on releasing autopsy results


By The Nation
Published on September 21, 2010

Though the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) has already received autopsy results of the 89 people killed during the recent political unrest, it has yet to decide if the information can be made public, DSI chief said yesterday.


DSI director general, Tharit Pengdit, said his agency had to first get the results verified by the Office of the Attorney-General, the Metropolitan Police Bureau and the Central Institute of Forensic Medicine.

He also encouraged members of the public as well as Pheu Thai Party who witnessed killings to come forward and testify with the DSI.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday praised new national police chief General Wichean Potephosree for ensuring that there were no untoward incidents during the red-shirt rally on Sunday held to mark the anniversary of the 2006 coup and four months since the crackdown on the red-shirt protest.

The prime minister said he expected Wichean to face tougher tasks in the future.

He also thanked all sides for helping keep order during the rally. "In all, things went smoothly. When a lot of people gather, it is always difficult to handle the situation. But there were no clashes on Sunday, and that is a good thing, so I must thank all sides," Abhisit said.

The police chief yesterday spent about 20 minutes telling the premier about the red-shirt rally. Wichean admitted that police estimate of 5,000 red-shirt demonstrators was incorrect, when the turnout was more like 10,000 people. He also noted that any large public gatherings without a leader had a good chance to getting out of control, adding that police would improve its intelligence work.

Wichean said a public demonstration act was needed to control such large crowds in the future, though at present the existing Internal Security Act could be imposed to ensure efficient crowd control.

Meanwhile, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan yesterday expressed concerns about prolonged rallies by the red shirts, though agencies in charge of security are keeping an eye out for any suspicious movements. He said the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation should be able to keep situations under control.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Kingkorn Narintornkul na Ayudhaya, an NGO activist with field experience in northern Thailand, said the NGO culture of self-praise barred self-criticism in NGOs. "Many feel numb that senior NGOs failed to question the recent crackdown and have jumped on the government's reform wagon instead," said Ms Kingkorn.

Her name gives away her game. She also has zero credibility.