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  1. #1051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seekingasylum View Post
    The post mortem confirmed Miller had been struck with a blunt instrument other than the hoe, probably a wooden cudgel of some sort.

    Of course there will be inconsistencies, anomalies and conflicting facts: there always is when the truth is not relevant and those orchestrating this have absolute power.

    Why though the British ambassador should be a willing partner in all this is incomprehensible.

    To be complicit in an attempt to pervert the course of justice that exculpated the guilty and condemns the innocent is not within his brief as representative of the British government. It beggars belief and is quite shocking. Surely it cannot just be incompetence? Perhaps he is ill and no one is prepared to rein him in?
    There has to be a reason. Buggered if I can fathom it. The families of the victims and their friends must surely be aware of events and are clamouring for explanations.
    Where are you reading an autopsy report? Is it possible you quoting reports on a report based on third hand + translated info?
    To me, wounds on the back of Miller's head were deep slash cuts and looked consistent with a hoe, not a blunt object.

    The British Ambassador is tasked with trade relations, nothing more, nothing less. It would be a diplomatic row if he were to voice what we are all thinking. Unless the families start agitating independent DNA tests, and the British Coroner also took samples from the bodies upon arrival in GB, looks as if this will stick.

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by YOrlov
    The British Ambassador is tasked with trade relations, nothing more, nothing less. It would be a diplomatic row if he were to voice what we are all thinking. Unless the families start agitating independent DNA tests, and the British Coroner also took samples from the bodies upon arrival in GB, looks as if this will stick.
    maybe so, but he could have chosen to say nothing. This would have been a more diplomatic and sensible choice.

  3. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YOrlov
    The British Ambassador is tasked with trade relations, nothing more, nothing less. It would be a diplomatic row if he were to voice what we are all thinking. Unless the families start agitating independent DNA tests, and the British Coroner also took samples from the bodies upon arrival in GB, looks as if this will stick.
    maybe so, but he could have chosen to say nothing. This would have been a more diplomatic and sensible choice.
    Well no, because thai corrupt politicians only like to do business with people who do not publically make them lose face, or better still, publicly speak out in their favour. For his job, which is forcing british business onto Thailand, this was the best thing he could have done. "we done officer somchai - everything above board. Well done. Top work. Sign the contract and they company will your seychelles bank account an hour later".

  4. #1054
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    Perhaps this will set a precedent, the public is outraged and demanding action.

    https://www.change.org/p/the-governm...ng=en-US#share

    ( language menu is at lower page on right)

    Even Thais aren't buying it !!
    Twitter page
    https://twitter.com/cm_mcv/status/51...46232456560640

    Here is Hannah's phone being given to police after her death. So how does it end up as evidence near Saw?

    Last edited by YOrlov; 04-10-2014 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #1055
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    Fuck me their dead,a couple of dicks got fitted up i fail to see why this is different from the rest of the shit that happens here
    Bad luck dead poms nothing will change

  6. #1056
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    Comments like that is the reason why it keeps happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobo746 View Post
    Fuck me their dead,a couple of dicks got fitted up i fail to see why this is different from the rest of the shit that happens here
    Bad luck dead poms nothing will change

  7. #1057
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    I didnt do it
    And every one standing their moral high ground is not going to change it,as long as it doesnt happen to me or mine !!!!

  8. #1058
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    So the accused are immigrants - sorry migrants - so in some of your eyes they are:
    the paragon of goodness, the downtrodden, the oppressed, the eternal scapegoat ...
    I say bullshit - clean your glasses and wake up !

    Just because they are from Burma doesn't mean they are Aung San Suu Kyi clones.
    Along with the people who always turn out nice, countries like that churn out masses of nasty scum;they have to do or the regime would collapse and they also produce many who turn animal to survive.

    No surprise that countries that take immigrants from oppressive shitholes find their jails getting full.
    Last edited by blue; 04-10-2014 at 04:27 PM.

  9. #1059
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    Have you read the thread and all the other stuff on the net?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobo746 View Post
    I didnt do it
    And every one standing their moral high ground is not going to change it,as long as it doesnt happen to me or mine !!!!

  10. #1060
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    The Bangkok Post says the recovered phone is a key piece of evidence, which also suggests the DNA tests are suspect. Guess the friend having it in her purse and all those photos and such was just bad journalism. That phone thing needs to be blown wide open, along with about a dozen other things.

    Prayut rejects scapegoat jibes | Bangkok Post: news
    You Make Your Own Luck

  11. #1061
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    Just an average day at work, you don’t expect anything major to disrupt it. And then, out of nowhere, you are surrounded by men who tell you they are the police. These men, employed by the Kingdom to serve and protect, encroach on your life, – and will leave an indelible stain – handcuff and blindfold you, throw you into a truck then pin you to the floor with their feet and take you away.
    When the blindfold comes off you are in a room where you are subsequently stripped naked and tortured; your life is then threatened by these police interrogators in their efforts to attain an admission of guilt.
    “This is for Thailand,” they tell you, “admit you are guilty”.
    As consolation, they tell you that your sacrifice will help the nation; you are, after all, from a hill tribe and have a debt to the country still standing.


    While a confession wrought from brutal torture is not only despicable but, in the name of rightful justice, inadmissible, this Draconian method of policing and interrogation is often the modus operandi of the police in Thailand. In June this year the ARHC (Asian Human Rights Commission) released a report saying, “Torture happens everywhere in Thailand, not only in the south or other areas of intense conflict. It is routinely used in ordinary criminal cases. The type of torture inflicted is often extreme: electrocution and abuse of the genitals are frequently reported.” It is well known that western prisoners who’ve spent time in Bang Kwang have written about police torture prior to conviction. One foreign prison inmate claims, “There are plenty of prisoners in here that will tell you they were tortured before confessing.” Nevertheless, the Thai public is mostly unaware of these atrocities as they are infrequently reported in the media. It seems that the police exercise their inhumane practices with total impunity.

    Torture happens
    everywhere
    in Thailand, not only
    in the south or other areas
    of intense conflict. It is routinely used in ordinary criminal cases.


    The people who probably suffer the most from these crimes against humanity are Thailand’s ethnic minorities and the poor. In a recent Amnesty International report entitled ‘Widespread use of torture – from policing to prisons’, it was stated that the practice of “torture is seen as normal within the Thai police system,” while “poor Thai people, migrants, and members of ethnic groups are particularly vulnerable.” The AHRC also stated that, “Poor persons brought by the police before courts in Thailand are generally treated as if they are already guilty. Even persons complaining that they have been tortured to extract a confession are not listened to nor taken into consideration by the courts, which routinely hand out very harsh sentences for minor offences. On the other hand, high standing officials and politicians are almost always exempt from prosecution.”

    When the men were arrested it was already common knowledge in the area that they were being used as scapegoats for this extremely high profile case.

    Paul Hunt, a UK based “seeker of justice” for the hill tribe people in Thailand, who has written numerous articles on the plight of these minorities, talked about the disproportionate amount of ethnic people imprisoned in Thailand. “Numbers of ethnic minorities imprisoned in Thailand is a sensitive issue,” Hunt explained. “Prison officials are not forthcoming in talking about imprisoned ethnic people and finding the correct number would be extremely difficult. A few years ago my own estimates ranged anywhere from 10,000 to 25,000, which is possibly 5-10% of the prison population. It is pretty certain that the percentage of hill tribes/ethnic minorities in Thai prisons far exceeds the percentage of the population at large, which is less than 2%.”

    The Department of Corrections in Bangkok could not supply details of the total number of ethnic people imprisoned in Thailand; the only possible way of getting that number would mean visiting all 137 prisons throughout the country and then, somewhat optimistically, hoping you could acquire true and correct records of detainees. A researcher for the Unit of Social and Environmental Research at Chiang Mai University stated, “The only way to tell which prisoner is from an ethnic minority is by guessing from the names at every prison. It is not in the legal system to specify race.” Attaining the correct total number of incarcerated felons in Thailand is somewhat like chasing a chimera; no one can agree on one number, not even close, suggesting that most findings are driven by agenda and not fact. The Department of Corrections shows a significant decrease in the last few years at just over 151,000 people, although one Thai prison official told Hunt in an interview a few years ago it was as high as 300,000. The WHO has the number at just less than 220,000, which is still one of the highest prison populations per capita in the world. The statistics, as always, are fuzzy, and if the Department of Corrections are supplying disinformation it is not easy to explain why. They receive budgets from the government for basic food per prisoner, and it may serve them well to give an accurate number for funding, staffing and management reasons. Hunt added, “But maybe the Thai government are playing propaganda games – one number for release, and the more accurate one for themselves?”

    Hunt is particularly critical of Human Rights organisations on a practical level, including Amnesty International and AHRC in Thailand, as he says his experience with these organisations, in his efforts for improving rights for ethnic minorities, has been extremely disappointing. “No support, help or even acknowledgement have been forthcoming from AI Thailand or AHRC staff for hill tribe prisoners, this is despite AI Thailand having been given donation funds and copious information specifically to enable them to do this work. This is a total dereliction of duty on their part.” Hunt said that during 2006 twenty two inmates in total died in Klong Pai's prison hospital, some of them hill tribe. As of 2nd May 2007, eight prisoners had passed away so far this year. Once convicted, most hill tribe prisoners have little or no financial support; if they can’t write English or Thai – and many can’t – they can’t contact the outside world, as all correspondence must be written in the aforementioned languages. Without support they often suffer maltreatment, are undernourished, and often die years before their release date.

    Scapegoats

    In February 2000 Australian couple, Kelvin Bourke and Sheri McFarlane, were accosted by two men at a camping spot at Doi Angkang, Northern Thailand. McFarlane was severely beaten with a large piece of wood, injured with a knife and then raped. Bourke was fatally shot in the head during his attempt to protect her. McFarlane said she only managed to avoid being killed by pretending she was already dead.

    As you can imagine this kind of brutality did not bode well for the ‘Land of Smiles’, although almost miraculously, considering the lack of witnesses and evidence, the isolated location, distress and injuries of the surviving victim, the Royal Thai Police arrested two men within a few days of the crime. Chinese Haw tribesman Sangthong Saeyang, 18, and In-thorn Saejong, 20, confessed to killing Bourke, and raping McFarlane as well as stealing some valuables.

    In an interview with Chiang Mai based lawyer, Wirachai Wangkasemsuk, he explained how the case against the two men was “extremely weak and unbelievable” and how, after five years effort, both men were eventually, and recently, acquitted. “The only evidence against them was a positive identity of one of the men from a line up, though the girl was still in shock and it’s difficult to say how she could point out the man with any certainty.” The girl’s positive ID was later used as evidence against the one man while his friend was accused solely because he was with him at the time of the murder and the fact that there were two assailants. The prosecutor also had signed confessions from the two men, albeit written after hours of torture.

    McFarlane had given police vague details of the appearance of the men who shot her partner which led them to apprehend five people, and then soon after, to arrest the man McFarlane pointed out, along with one of his friends who was not in the line-up. A hill tribe man involved with this case, who asked to remain unnamed, revealed something that was never told to McFarlane: that before the police found their five suspects a letter had been written by one of the local police chiefs, at the request of a higher police chief – possibly the chain ends somewhere – to the local head of the accused men’s village, saying that somebody must be delivered to them immediately for this crime. When the men were arrested it was already common knowledge in the area that they were being used as scapegoats for this extremely high profile case.

    “The men were convicted without DNA evidence being admitted to the court. The village where the two men lived had had a party at the time of the murder and there was photographic evidence of the two men at this gathering. This was suppressed and the villagers were told to keep quiet while the lives of the men’s families were threatened if they were to come forward and appeal,” said Wirachai.

    Sangthong and Saejong were tortured by the police before signing the confession to a crime they did not commit, and, with evidence sequestrated, both were subjected to an unfair trial, poorly represented and then, sentenced to death. Wirachai added, “I knew from the first time I saw the case that they were innocent. I also knew that at the time the police were under tremendous pressure to get an arrest. You must understand that it’s not always the fault of the police, they are told from above that they must find the culprits as crimes like this look bad for Thailand and for tourism; so that’s what they do, they find someone and get a confession.” It is also of significance that HM Queen Sirikit was planning to visit the area later that month and under no circumstances were the local authorities to allow the area be tainted with this vile affair on her arrival; things needed to be cleaned up. The source of this information also asked to remain unnamed, his opinion on the matter was, “This was the main reason why police had to resolve the issue quickly.” The villagers had planned to send a letter to the queen informing her of the inequities dealt on their neighbours but this letter was also suppressed.

    Ignoring the threats of the police, some villagers protested these wrongful arrests while Wirachai spent the next five years, working pro bono, in his attempt to extricate the two men from their sentence. Even though it is well known that confessions are often extorted through torture, the courts do not take this into account, neither do they investigate a confession, so once that confession is signed the accused, albeit after being subjected to electrocution, have no recourse unless they can take their case to the appeals court, which is costly, and in this case a possible danger to anyone involved. Wirachai, who had been appointed as defence lawyer by an influential Chinese man living in Thailand after the men were convicted, did take the case to the appeals court and despite the overwhelming evidence in support of the lawyer’s defence – the photographs, no match of DNA from the sperm found in McFarlane – the prosecution appealed against both men’s release. Finally, in 2004 the first victim was released and later in 2007 the second man was released after the case was taken to the Supreme Court.

    I asked the lawyer if the police or judicial system will ever be held accountable, even criticised for such a diabolical set up. “A judge has enormous power here and no one can question his verdict, you cannot criticise a judge, it’s actually illegal in Thailand. As for the police, there is no law to say that what they did is wrong, they won’t accept accountability. The way they see it is, they were asked to find the murderers quickly, and that’s what they did. They got their confession, it doesn’t matter how they got it.” One ITV documentary expose programme called Yorn Roy that investigates issues within Thai society interviewed Wirachai and focused one programme on this case and its social implications, but when the police were asked for interviews they declined. No compensation has been paid nor apology given to the two men for their wrongful incarceration and the prior torture inflicted on them. Both men have suffered psychological damage after their experience, finding it hard to sleep and have recurring nightmares.

    Thailand has not yet ratified the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. There are no repercussions for those who have tortured innocents and no avenues for complaints for those who have suffered. There are no written policies or laws that forbid the use of torture; on the contrary, it is a mainstream tactic in forcing confessions. No one else has ever been brought to justice for the crimes against the Australian couple, and even if they were, it might be prudent to hang back on casting your stones.

    Your country needs YOU

    In a quiet soi in the suburbs of Bangkok I talked with Ja-bow, a Lahu hill tribe man formerly from Chiang Rai. Ja-bow had been working in the tourism industry when he was quite literally pulled off the streets, in front of shocked friends, blindfolded and taken to a room and tortured by police. “I was worried, I’d heard of police torturing people, we all know it happens, but I was also worried that these people just wanted to kill me. I really had no idea who they were,” said Ja-bow who, even many years after the incident, still talks in hushed tones, frequently looks about and reminds me that he doesn’t feel completely safe talking about his experience. “Just because I had known a foreign woman who was murdered they tried to set me up for the crime. They had no evidence at all; I didn’t do it. When I arrived in this room they took off my blindfold and repeatedly punched me in the stomach. The older policemen explained how to beat me without breaking bones or causing severe bruising. They told me I had murdered this woman, my DNA was found on the woman, that other people had told them it was me . . . I couldn’t believe what they were telling me. I just kept denying it until I was so weak and tired I felt like I was ready to die.” For hours they beat Ja-bow, threatening to electrocute him, and then telling him that they would set him up anyway, leaving something of his at the scene of the crime. When this failed they resorted to telling him they would kill him there and then if he didn’t confess. “A confession, they told me, would only give me 5-10 years in jail. They said they’d find me guilty anyway so it was better to confess.” Ja-bow was fortunate enough to have a good education, speak excellent English and have plenty of friends to help him. His Thai was so fluent the police asked him if he was really hill tribe, “Maybe it was because they didn’t want to arrest a Thai for this crime; I think they thought I was too well spoken to be hill tribe.” And it was his ethnic genealogy in the end that prompted the police to remind the man of his debt to Thailand. “This is for Thailand.”

    There are no repercussions for those who have tortured innocents and no avenues for complaints for those who have suffered.


    “I could not confess to a crime I didn’t commit. In the end they blindfolded me again, gave me a bitter tasting drink and put me in a car. I woke up hours later in the street.” Some time later, with the help of friends, Ja-bow tried to put pressure on the police as to why he was tortured and used as a scapegoat but no police department ever admitted to the kidnapping. “I wanted to know . . . why me? They had no evidence against me besides being seen with this woman near the time of the murder. But the fact is, I had never even been close to the area where she was killed. I even spoke with a forensic scientist who was involved with the case and he told me that he was ‘uncomfortable’ with the police investigation. I came forward and asked them to check my DNA.” Ja-bow was eventually acquitted but his mental scars from the incident still run deep.

    Two of Ja-bow’s friends disappeared during Taksin’s War on Drugs pogrom, in which ethnic minorities were often the focus. Ja-bow is also familiar with the plight of the two Chinese Haw men used as scapegoats in the Doi Angkang murder and rape. He told me that he is not very optimistic about the future either. “No one ever accepts responsibility, and hardly anyone dare stand up to the police, until that happens nothing will change. This is not just hill tribe people who are abused by the police, its many poor, rural Thai people . . . Often you see the pictures of the proud policemen in the newspaper, with their haul of drugs and the criminals handcuffed. Usually that’s enough for the papers, the police and the public, but what most people don’t understand is sometimes the people are innocent and that the police got that confession through torture.”

    Asian Human Rights Commission
    Last edited by Yasojack; 04-10-2014 at 05:03 PM.

  12. #1062
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo746 View Post
    I didnt do it
    And every one standing their moral high ground is not going to change it,as long as it doesnt happen to me or mine !!!!
    ^
    unless farang start killing Thais in retribution

  13. #1063
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    ^ well, maybe not just any Thais...but....

    here's another reminder of Thai police professional conduct

    Murdered girl's mum blasts police | Bangkok Post: news

  14. #1064
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    Not sure what is going on in the world but I just saw some photos of Sean McAnna's wounds that look identical to the victims. This sure is showing the collective power of the internet when people make observations like that, relevant or not. Why it can not appear on TD is a bit mystifying.

  15. #1065
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    Given that posters have repeatedly posted links to gruesome photos of the dead kids, and that these photos have instantly been deleted, I'd guess that the owner doesn't want TD turned into a dead body blog. Just a guess.

    I also saw the wound match pictures (elsewhere). It is strange.

    But, power of internet or not, I believe this case is over. The Thai have 'confessions' and have a 'DNA match'. The British head faggot has declared himself tickled pink with the results. It's over.

  16. #1066
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    Can a moderator please have the decency to PM me please about what is allowed to be posted and what is not.

    A post was deleted that simply had a picture (from google images) of a weapon that leaves similar wounds to that of the deceased.

    Are we not allowed to post a google images picture of a knife?

    I guess not, how about a link to one?

    Here is a safe for work photo from google images of a fist blade that leaves similar wounds to that of which David suffered from.

    Very different wounds to the hoe or blunt object allegedly used.

    Sean had two similar wounds that he passed off as from a motosai accident in his video interview.

  17. #1067
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    ^So what? Was such a knife found at the scene? Or in the possession of anyone involved? If so, I must have missed it. I don't recall a knife as ever having been mentioned in conjunction with this case.

  18. #1068
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    Well if he knife has no connection, why are you posting pictures of it? It's a specialty item in any case, sold in Soldier of Fortune type publication to wannabe bad asses. Hardly what you would find on an island full of Thai, Burmese and gap year students.

    A machete.....maybe. That thing...unlikely.

    So, why are you, and others, throwing it into the mix?

  19. #1069
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    I can see their point. Those wounds are rather specific, so that makes one consider what made them. If someone thinking they were a bad ass traveled a bit, had some spare cash, and saw them in a market, it would make for a quick purchase. The use of it certainly would prove they were a bad ass. I think I have seen those for sale on Sukhumvit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thailazer View Post
    I think I have seen those for sale on Sukhumvit.
    Many markets sell them.

    Half the motosai taxi guys in tourist places probably have them in their pockets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    Could just as easily been a six-inch steak knife stabbed in a shallow puncture.
    Not really. I think we all agree that it was a frenzied attack on both parties. All weapons (the hoe, and whatever was used on David, most likely a fist blade) were used with maximum force to inflict maximum damage in frenzied rage filled attack.

    On one of the links deleted it showed a picture diagram of the wounds David suffered. They were all in line with where punches would land, if he was first punched (with a fistblade) in the side of the head, then an upper cut as he fell.


    These are just proposed theories, that are gaining acceptance. It is certain to almost all that either the hoe used on Hannah, or a blunt instrument wasn't used on David. Which of course leaves the pertinent question, what was?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    I've lived in Asia almost 40 years, six years in Thailand.
    Well, we would have to presume those six years ended almost 34 years ago if you think that a fistblade is not an easy enough weapon for a Thai to get. They are sold openly at markets, and have been for the last ten years I've lived here.

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    ^Any asshole can buy one. There has been no mention of a knife at any time in this case.

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    Sceptical British media and others have raised other questions about the investigation, which has featured numerous false leads and missteps.

    Chief among them: How did Witheridge's mobile phone end up in the residence of one of the accused, where police said they found it, when in fact her friend had given it to police the day after the murders?

    Koh Tao 'torture' alleged | Bangkok Post: news

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabaitoo View Post
    Sceptical British media and others have raised other questions about the investigation, which has featured numerous false leads and missteps.

    Chief among them: How did Witheridge's mobile phone end up in the residence of one of the accused, where police said they found it, when in fact her friend had given it to police the day after the murders?

    Koh Tao 'torture' alleged | Bangkok Post: news
    Excellent question. It appears the BIB may have screwed up badly regarding the phone. Although I doubt that in the end it will make any difference.

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