Thread: Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Red shirts call for justice - The Nation

Red shirts call for justice

Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation on Sunday May 20, 2012 1:00 am


Thaksin urges reconciliation in video call as tens of thousands mark the 2010 crackdown at Ratchaprasong; CentralWorld, Gaysorn forced to close

Thaksin Shinawatra, the fugitive ex-premier, last night phoned in to the red-shirt rally in Bangkok's Ratchaprasong area and suggested that the country should head towards the path of reconciliation.

Via a video link from overseas, Thaksin, who reportedly is in China, told the anniversary gathering of red-shirt supporters that finding out the truth and remedies for those damaged by the conflict are the key components of reconciliation.

More than 20,000 red shirts flooded the Ratchaprasong intersection yesterday to mark the second anniversary of the deadly crackdown on red-shirt protesters by the Abhisit Vejjajiva administration in 2010, which ended in 93 deaths and more than 2,000 injuries on all sides, most of them red shirts.

They called for justice for those who were killed in April and May two years ago, and for the release of dozens of red shirts still in jail, mostly for defying the emergency decree or on charges of setting fire to buildings in Bangkok and beyond in the aftermath of the crackdown. Some also called for the release of <redacted> detainees and the reform or abolition of the law.

Discontent with government

The mood was different from a similar event held one year ago, as the Pheu Thai Party is now in power - thanks to the red shirts' support. Some of the group's leaders are now MPs and one is a minister.

"Last year there was still a climate of fear. Today, we can freely express ourselves," said Veera Siriprasert, a red-shirt medical doctor and radiologist and a member of the Red Chorus, a group of red-shirt singers.

Veera added, however, that the reds had also gathered in high numbers because of the perception that the Yingluck Shinawatra administration isn't doing anything to democratise the country, and was concentrating instead on economic issues.

"How can we reconcile when there're still distortions [about what happened two years ago]?" asked Veera, adding that the government's stance to not touch the lese majeste law is also a source of disappointment among red shirts.

Thousands swamped the paved area outside CentralWorld, which was partly burned down two years ago. The crowds forced the mall to shut down at 3pm along with the highbrow Gaysorn Plaza on the other side of the intersection.

"People are here today because they feel justice has yet to prevail," said Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boon-ngam-anong. Sombat said dozens of red shirts are still in jail, while today protesters of other political colours are out on bail and people like Abhisit and his deputy for security, Suthep Thaugsuban, are free and talking on television.

Road to victory is red | Bangkok Post: opinion

COMMENTARY

Road to victory is red

• Published: 20/05/2012 at 03:22 AM
• Newspaper section: News

Two years after the bloody crackdown on May 19, 2010, Thaksin Shinawatra is on the road to victory, one that is paved by blood, death and political intrigue, engineered by both sides of the political divide and the finishing line has little to do with democracy.

The Thai political landscape since the September 2006 coup has been shaped by intrigue and injustice, more so than usual. In February, 2010, the red shirt United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) once again gathered. They demanded a general election. They had every democratic right to do so.

What followed was a two-month siege of Bangkok, but a peaceful, democratic protest soon flirted with the extremes. One step into the extreme always leads to another more extreme step and eventually open rebellion.

Painting then prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's residence red with human blood was stepping into the extreme. But extremes are required otherwise a demonstration is likely to go unnoticed. Holding concerts in Sanam Luang would not have achieved any political aims.

Storming the Thaicom satellite station was also an extreme act, but government troops had shut down the red shirt People's Channel. An extreme situation required an extreme measure.

The illegal occupation of Ratchaprasong district caused, according to reports, as many as 100,000 people to be out of work, and many to go bankrupt. The irony is that the movement for democracy trampled on the basic human rights of others. But even in this, sympathetic observers can empathise and reason that an extreme situation required an extreme measure.

However, extreme measures would eventually be met with extreme reactions.

At Phan Fah Bridge, troops clashed with protesters. Twenty-five people were killed and more than 800 injured, five of whom were members of security forces. Extreme measures went beyond acceptable bounds, and both sides were guilty.

By May 3, 2010, Mr Abhisit proposed to dissolve parliament in September and hold an election on Nov 14, if the protesters were willing to stand down. The UDD had achieved its objective. Extreme measures worked out for them. They got what they came for. UDD leaders announced their acceptance of the terms. They told Thailand and the world they were setting a date for disbanding their demonstration.

Then they changed their minds.

Some argued the reason was that UDD leaders didn't want to face criminal charges against them. Some argued that UDD leaders wanted government and army leaders to face criminal charges also. Some argued that Thaksin made the call because given the public mood a November election might not go in his favour. Some argued that Mr Abhisit was lying.

In any case, democracy was sacrificed, whether due to fear of criminal charges, a vendetta against the government and army leaders, personal political interests, or mistrust. And the red shirts supported their leaders in ignoring democracy. The irony of it.

The struggle was evidently less about democracy, and more about personalities.

So it was a stalemate, senseless and aimless. Meanwhile, Bangkok was fast disintegrating into a state of anarchy; every day bullets were exchanged and bombs . Instead of democracy, there was anarchy. Law and order must be restored. The law must be swift, severe and certain, otherwise there is anarchy. In Thailand, the law is often slow, soft and uncertain, except when it concerns lese majeste. Hence, criminals enjoy trampling on the law in a country often called lawless, even without this red uprising.

Facing anarchy and an open rebellion, the government asked the UDD leadership to send home the civilians before government troops moved in to make arrests. Nobody wished to go home. Government troops moved in on May 19 to arrest law breakers. The UDD resisted with violence, a bloody and unfortunate crackdown ensued at the hands of the authorities; Bangkok and provincial city halls burned at the hands of red shirts.

Two years and 91 dead bodies later, the UDD still believe they have the right to break laws and resist arrest without repercussions, a democratic movement continuing to display anarchist behaviour, believing they are above the law. Inciters of violence and people who break the law must be punished, but instead their leaders sit in parliament.

Under the emergency decree, government troops are not legally liable for their actions. But the law must also be just, or it is not democratic. An emergency decree should not excuse wanton violence. Justice must be served. Those found to have used excessive violence must be punished, but none are. The mysterious men in black should be identified and brought to justice, but none will be.

True justice is the same for both sides; swift, severe and certain. Instead, we have two children on the playground, arguing, ''You respect the law first!'' ''No, you first!'' ''No, you first!'' ''No, I won't if you don't!'' ''Well then, I won't either!''

Consequently, two years and 91 dead bodies later, the law continues to be slow, soft and uncertain, except where <redacted> is concerned. Instead the hate is swift, severe and certainly perpetuating, with cries of injustice screamed and acts of injustice committed by both sides of the political divide. The irony of it.

The death and destruction was unfortunate and tragic. It could have and should have all been avoided. But that didn't happen. Justice must be served, but that is not going to happen either. The DSI might have linked 25 deaths to the military, but that is stating the obvious, understating it in fact. The question is, will anyone put the handcuffs on the generals? The DSI's findings were just for show. It is this hatred that helps keep the UDD going strong, in their actions and in the streets. This is what helped the Pheu Thai Party to victory in the July 2011 general election and helps build the red villages. It is this hatred of Thailand's traditional elites that will pave Thaksin's road to victory.

The bungles sadly and comically committed by the Yingluck Shinawatra administration don't matter. These can't compare with the cries of ''You killed 91 people'' _ never mind that those deaths also included soldiers. The approval rating of PM Yingluck is still the envy of any national leader. This struggle is not about democracy; it's about the hate for them and the love for us.

He who controls the national budget controls national destiny, and his name is Thaksin. Every region, province, town, district, village and house wants a taste of the 2.4 trillion budget bill that will be debated in parliament this coming week _ as they should, everyone is entitled.

Thaksin once famously said that those provinces that didn't vote for him should not expect anything from him. But he should be wiser now. The national budget could be used as an incentive for more of Thailand to bow to Thaksin.

The once powerful political parties/factions and their mighty overlords have all been effectively swallowed up by Pheu Thai. Red villages are mushrooming; one is even being built in Songkhla province, the southern heartland of the Democrats. Whether by accident or design, hates and the injustices are to the benefit of Thaksin _ a true opportunist knows how to capitalise, and a businessman who isn't an opportunist is a bankrupt businessman.

His sister makes for an ideal brand ambassador, to be adored, defended and championed by most red shirts. His best people _ whose political bans will be lifted at month's end _ are set to take charge, officially. UDD leaders, inciters of violence, sit in parliament. Other political parties and players have become but convenient pawns. Invasion of the stronghold of the Democrats has begun. The 2.4 trillion baht budget is a cake that everyone wants to taste.

By this time next year, our PM could very well be someone holding a Montenegro passport. Many would argue that this is the unavoidable next step in the evolution of Thai politics _ one extreme leading to another. Bumpy it will be and unless there's a U-turn ahead somewhere, this is the road to victory. This is not about right or wrong, this is about who plays the better game, and has more luck on their side.

Of one thing we can be sure; the law will be swifter, severer and more certain under Thaksin, if his past record as prime minister is anything to go by. As far as justice is concerned however, we would have to go by his human rights record.

Voranai Vanijaka

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Former premier Thaksin Shinawatra yesterday urged a crowd of 45,000 red shirts to set aside their anger and frustration about social and legal injustices in the name of national reconciliation.

now it is going to be interesting to see how this goes down .

Originally Posted by Bangkok Post

The time for arguments is over," he told the crowd at Ratchaprasong intersection who had gathered to mark the bloody 2010 military crackdown that left 91 dead. "It's time to come together for peace."

Not one reference to the Coupist overlay of it all.

What the fuck does the square faced cnut know ir care about justice?

He's simply stating the obvious, getting his arse back into Thailand and his gubby hands on the money he stole is the one and only item of business on the PT agenda.

If he's such a fan of justice why does he not simply return to Thailand and fight his cases in the courts?

Even IF he had an argument that his standing conviction should be annulled (coup government is I believe his argument) -this would be no reason for him not to face the oustanding cases against him in a court of law - or indeed the cases which seem almost certain to come out of ongoing investigations.

Nah the cnut doesn't want that, he believes he is above the law.


Meanwhile the Reds are waking up to the fact that they are going to be sold short.

Time they selected and elected their own candidates and ditched the same old faces.

Originally Posted by Itchy

What the fuck does the square faced cnut know ir care about justice?

Oh your back. Crabs, what made you crawl out you little hole and write yet another post full of shite.

Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice | Bangkok Post: news

Of course the the justice he wants to put second is him owning up to his injustices.

Why does the family simply pay all their outstanding taxes then he can come home.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Epic hypocrisy. Red shirts were protesting for justice and people died for it. It wasn't out of personal love for Thaksin, they know how corrupt he is.

If they wanted unity under an oppressive and corrupt Chinese-Thai elite, they could have had that under the military junta and later with Abhisit. Thaksin wants reconciliation with the elite to get his money back, and as always only cares for people when they fit his personal goals. Let's hope they'll see through him this time.

Impatient Thai red shirts want justice from PM Yingluck
Amy Sawitta Lefevre
(Editing by Alan Raybould and Ron Popeski)

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thailand's "red shirts" took to the street this weekend to mark the anniversary of the army's bloody repression of their mass rally in Bangkok in 2010 amid growing signs of a rift with the government they helped elect last July.

Many red shirts are angry at the failure of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to bring to account those responsible for the 91 deaths during the 2010 events. Some are threatening action that could destabilise her government and start another period of political upheaval, after months of relative calm.

At least 20,000 people attended the rally, which ended peacefully in the early hours of Sunday. They blocked a major crossroads where a huge shopping mall was set on fire during the dispersal of the 2010 rally.
"My son has been in prison for two years and hasn't been allowed bail. I haven't received any help from this government to get him out," said Bantao Muangkot, whose son was arrested for allegedly setting fire to a town hall in the northeast.

Families of those killed fear a political amnesty bill proposed by the Yingluck government could see charges dropped against those guilty of crimes related to Thailand's six-year political crisis, including members of the military, former ministers now in opposition and ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra.

Red shirts at the rally held pictures of Thaksin, Yingluck's brother, who was ousted in a coup in 2006. He has chosen exile to avoid going to jail after being found guilty of a conflict of interest when he was in power but is itching to return.

Though they support Thaksin, many red shirts are demanding a full investigation into the military's role in the deaths.

"Most red shirts I spoke to said that if they were forced to choose, they would rather see those responsible for the violence go to jail than bring Thaksin home to Thailand," Thida Thawornseth, leader of the red shirts' United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, told Reuters.

Thaksin addressed the rally through a video link.

"I know you feel hurt, but we have to push personal issues to one side and work for the greater good, for reconciliation," he told the crowd. "Those responsible for the killings in 2010 will be brought to justice but that could take some time."

The government has enjoyed an uneasy peace since taking office, facing little opposition from the royalist, anti-Thaksin "yellow shirts" of the People's Alliance for Democracy, whose leaders also stand to gain from an amnesty, having organised the invasion and closure of Bangkok's two airports in 2008.

LESE-MAJESTE

Natthaputt Akhard, whose sister, Katekamol, a volunteer nurse, was shot dead in a temple during the crackdown on the 2010 rally fears most cases will remain unresolved.

"My mother whispered to Thaksin at a red shirt gathering in Cambodia that she didn't want an amnesty deal, she wanted the truth," said Natthaputt.

Soon after, Thaksin addressed red shirts on Thai television, asking them to "make sacrifices" for the greater good.

"Thaksin would be betraying the reds if he made a deal at their expense," said Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a political analyst at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Anger at the government's refusal to amend Thailand's strict laws that shield the country's monarchy from criticism is also causing tension. Many red shirt supporters at the rally wore T-shirts calling for an amendment to the lese-majeste laws.

That is a sensitive issue in a country where King Bhumibol Adulyadej is regarded by many as semi-divine.

Critics say the laws are being abused to silence or imprison opponents of the royalist establishment and some are angry that Thaksin and Yingluck seem more interested in reaching a political compromise than addressing injustice.

"This government should try harder, especially to ensure red shirts still in jail are treated in a humane way," Thida said.

in.news.yahoo.com

"Most red shirts I spoke to said that if they were forced to choose, they would rather see those responsible for the violence go to jail than bring Thaksin home to Thailand," Thida Thawornseth, leader of the red shirts' United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship, told Reuters.

.

Again, there was an interesting interplay between what Thaksin said on vid and what Amsterdam said in his 10 minutes on stage. One wants forgetting, the other says "never forget", one wants reconciliation, the other calls for justice.

Originally Posted by Itchy

What the fuck does the square faced cnut know ir care about justice?

He knows a lot about Thai 'justice', having been a beneficiary of it- and quite possibly, before that a 'Court tamperer' too..

Many of the Red shirts are sincere in their call for justice, but in the Amat/political & military sector where, lets face it, they all would be facing considerable jail terms if justice were to actually be done, the horse trading is merely to do with covering their own sorry arses, with compensation and perhaps reduced/ overturned jail terms for UDD protesters & casualties as a sop.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Thaksin: I've made my deal, so let's leave it at that...

Redshirts: Let's not and let others say we did...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Thaksin: I've made my deal, so let's leave it at that...

Yep... Unfortunately a lot of the red speakers obviously didn't get his memo.... Including his pet weasel Amsterdam.... And went completely 'off message'.

Need some grass roots politicians, not corrupt sino-Thai scum..., to come into play; not easy when the patronage system is so completely in control at every level (very much including local politics) in Thai society.

Sooner or later, there will only be one option left...

Originally Posted by DroversDog

Originally Posted by Itchy

What the fuck does the square faced cnut know ir care about justice?

Oh your back. Crabs, what made you crawl out you little hole and write yet another post full of shite.

Sorry to point out the blindingly obvious truth about what is going on.

Now bend over and take it up the arse, because you know, I know and we all know the reds are getting fucked over.

The single clear and undeniable point the Red movement is demanding is JUSTICE.

Now the square face cnut is selling the Reds down the river to get his arse back in Thailand and his snout back in the trough.

Bend Over Drover's Bitch and take it like a peasant.

^ ignore Doug. He's just another bitter failure.

Chalerm: Reconciliation bill needed | Bangkok Post: news

Chalerm: Reconciliation bill needed

• Published: 20/05/2012 at 01:30 PM
• Online news: Local News

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung on Sunday insisted he would forward a draft reconciliation bill to the House of Representatives for deliberation at the right time.

Mr Chalerm was responding to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's call in his video conference to the red shirts gathering at Ratchaprasong intersection on Saturday night for them to set aside their anger and frustration over social and legal injustices for the sake of national reconciliation.

The deputy prime minister said he agreed with Thaksin and was of the opinion that only reconciliation would bring about peace in the country.

Therefore, he would forward a draft national reconciliation bill he had prepared to the House of Representatives for deliberation when the timing was right.

Under the draft which would not name any people in particular, all parties affected by the Sept 19, 2006 coup would benefit from it.

Mr Chalerm believed Thaksin would be able to return home by the end of this year provided that the national reconciliation bill was quickly passed into law.

Thaksin did not want to come home now because he wanted to see reconciliation in the country first, he said.

^ Ah, the pet speaks...

What a surprise....

"Fetch"

The PT have a huge majority in the house, they can pass any laws they wish - but they refuse to pass the laws they promised.

WHY?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Mr Chalerm believed Thaksin would be able to return home by the end of this year provided that the national reconciliation bill was quickly passed into law. Thaksin did not want to come home now because he wanted to see reconciliation in the country first, he said

Mr Chalerm, as Justice Minister, wouldn't you agree that if Thaksin returned to Thailand now he would legally be required to serve a jail term?

Although i don't wish anyone ill, if Thaksin was no longer drawing breath things might appear much simpler in Thailand

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Sooner or later, there will only be one option left...

Ultimately the choice that those who run the country will face is political reform or 'the one option left. Unfortunately they probably have compared thailand with the phillipines and decided that they can allow corruption, patronage and double standards to run out of control for quite some time before things get as bad as there and before there will be even a hint of 'one option left' becoming an issue. Personally I am disparately hoping for political reform as I wouldn't wish a revolution on anyone, given the receptiveness with which they are betrayed leading to a government as bad if not worse than the one the revolution removed;

I think you are right about thaksin. he has done his deal, presumably a return to thailand and restoration of his amart privileges. This speech smacks of 'Ive got what I wanted; time for you chaps to go home and wait for my return'

How the UDD responds to this is going to provide evidence to answer there question of where it and its membership stand on the spectrum between being 'a force to bring back thaksin to do good deeds' and 'a grass roots force for social change'. Thaksin's speech suggests that he firmly views the UDD as the former.

Those that are unhappy with this deal that provides the victims with a bit of money; but not justice or truth are going to be rather appalled over this turn of events, I can imagine we are going to see people being brought back in with promises of alternative reform, projects, sponsorship and reminders that for some of them the only thing between them and a cell is a PT controlled DSI.

I cannot see the UDD being sufficiently independent of Thaksin, PT, their money and their supporters to be able to break free and successfully set themselves up as a political party; no matter what thaksin deciders to do. I will be pleasantly supprised if they do.