Thread: Thaksin: Let's put unity before justice

Originally Posted by aging one

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Red-shirt leader Sombat Boonngam-anong, one of those strongly critical of fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra's shifting stances, yesterday said Thaksin's remark that the red shirts had rowed the boat to send him to the other side of the river reflected the ex-premier's "egotistic attitude".

So he did not say this.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Sombat, considered one of the progressives among the red shirts, likened Thaksin to "just a station on the way towards democracy", and that Thaksin was not the destination. "I want to tell my fellow red shirts loudly that we have to continue with our journey. The Dubai tycoon has left us and we have to live with it," he said, referring to Thaksin.

Nor that?

They seem to be quotes. Just a bit puzzled.

Let me sort out that puzzle for you AO.

Many Red Shirts/PTP/UDD say things not in synch with the 'overall umbrella".

To try and frenziedly whip that into the divide and conquer thing is all too obvious.

There are local groups with competing memberships and disagreements. This extends all up and down the line within the UDD/Red Shirt ranks.....but for the anti-Red Shirt media to "anti-red-shirtedly" use it for their agenda, is noticed clearly by some Farangs, and not at all by others......This latter point not surprisingly so, given their political discussion environment.

All this bitter division as the anti-red shirt media tries to suggest, is all agenda.

If you don't think so......well, that tells me something.

Kudos Sombat Boonngam-anong

So, what does all this mean?
After 2 or 3 years and the and the waste of numerous lives Mr T has realised that he ain't coming back using his red shirts.
He needs to appeal to "others" to get him home.
"Thanks for your deaths, but only the elite can bring me home.
So go back to your paddy fields while I work behind the scenes with those you hate."

Originally Posted by noelbino

After 2 or 3 years and the and the waste of numerous lives Mr T has realised that he ain't coming back using his red shirts.

Yep, he's finally realised that the 'Star Trek strategy' of sending a few red shirts in first to get bumped off while Captain Kirk, etc take cover behind them - probably isn't that reliable.

^^ that little Louis Vuitton May 2010 Revolution didn't go too well after all,

the reds must have known they were sleeping with the enemy,

if they are surprised by his moves, then they are dumber than the buffalos they own

Article is from Dec 2011 but still an important one and worth reading.

Thailand’s elemental political conflict | East Asia Forum

Near future scenarios:

In the aftermath, observers hazarded four scenarios for the near future. The first envisions a backstairs deal to reverse spiralling polarisation. Under this deal, the Yingluck government would not be disrupted and Thaksin would be allowed to return to Thailand as long as the Thaksinite camp agreed to curb rising anti-monarchism. In the second, the government would survive because its opposition was an exhausted wreck: the army discredited by its interventions in politics, the Democrats defeated and demoralised, and the royalist yellow shirt movement dissolved in mutual backbiting. In the third, the opposition would temporarily lay low, waiting for the usual government failures and scandals to create the right conditions for attack, and politics would soon return to the fractious instability of recent years. Under the fourth scenario, an attempt to overthrow the government would provoke much stronger opposition than was evoked by the 2006 coup, shifting the political polarisation into a more violent phase.

The first is currently being enacted...although the full "deal" is not known. As I said, it is worth the Red Shirts consolidating what they have achieved so far and wait for the 111 group to come back to life. Some pressure can be used to force arrests of PAD leaders and push for other non-controversial changes. It will take at least a second term and more likely a third before the Constitution can be fully reverted to the 1997 one...with some necessary changes from lessons learnt.

I think those, such as Butterfly, are a little behind the times judging from the silly comments on this, and other threads, about monkeys and buffaloes.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

So Sombat, the only red shirt leader worthy of such a title, didn't say what he is quoted as saying?

No, you mushroom.

He did say it, but you didn't understand what he meant. Calgary, being an expert on these matters has explained it clearly for all of us Amart PADite coupists.

^^Maybe I am just jaded by what I saw in the early 2000's but I would not put much hope the 111 returning to save the day and make things better... after all for many of them they never really went away.

As for consolidation or even splitting away from thaksin and going their own way. If anyone had the slightest successfully starting doing anything thaksin don't like they are going to get the full vera treatment, but this time with extra added weight of the PT, DSI and courts landing on their shoulders. I just don't think they have a chance against all of that.

Originally Posted by goostewart

when the media has been covering the growing discontent within the UDD ranks

"Wishing and hoping, planning and dreaming......"

Sing along with me and Dusty Springfield Goo

^so, are you saying that there is no discontent within the ranks of the UDD? Even for you that is a whopper!

I notice that you have chosen not to reply to my point about hyperbole, why not?

The day inner Bangkok went crazy shouldn't be forgotten | Bangkok Post: news

Thaksin's timing is poor

It is not surprising that some red shirts failed to react positively to Thaksin Shinawatra's video-link address to the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) gathering at Ratchaprasong intersection on the second anniversary of the bloody crackdown of May 19, 2010, noted Thai Rath.

Thaksin called for the red shirts to reconcile so that he could come back to Thailand to serve the people again.

A core red shirt leader posted on his Twitter account that the red shirts are getting tired of Thaksin. The red shirts are fighting for democracy, not for Thaksin. He should stop talking about himself and his desire to come home. But another red shirt leader who attained amataya (elite) status by securing a cabinet post remarked that it's time for Thaksin to come home.

Thai Rath noted that the difference in opinion among the red shirts is not surprising as they come from diverse socio-economic backgrounds. They may have been united to fight the common foe but once it was won with an overwhelming victory in last year's general election, the differences in opinion and personal interests have begun to create cracks in that unity. Some red shirts have become MPs, ministerial advisers or secretaries as well as scoring the ultimate trophy of a ministerial post, changing their supposedly prai, or proletariat, status to amataya.

However, the grass roots are still poor and empty-handed and only want to see justice for those who killed their loved ones.

Thai Rath noted that those calling for reconciliation are the UDD amataya in order to hold on to their political power and privileges.

Thammasat academic Thirayuth Boonmi once characterised the former premier: "I don't think Thaksin believes in creating a grassroots democracy, judging from his address to his followers. I don't see him talking about a sustainable democratic foundation. He talks about wanting to come back and die in Thailand ... He is more like a marketing guru."

Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society.

Worth posting again for certain people..........

"Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society."

In other words....he needed a bargaining chip....and he got it. 91 of them.

indeed, he got his medals for becoming a true brutal dictator

he will now proceed to become a full pledged dictator with the support of the military, all thanks to Democracy and the support of Democracy freedom fighters

a lesson to be learned for our reds friends,

^but that is all coupist and PADite thinking and, as such, is worthless and I am not going to listen to it. Mushrooms, being fed by the amart media, that is all you are.

Thought I would get Calgary's response in for him.

^

You can't argue with that.

Worth posting again for certain people:

A core red shirt leader posted on his Twitter account that the red shirts are getting tired of Thaksin. The red shirts are fighting for democracy, not for Thaksin. He should stop talking about himself and his desire to come home. But another red shirt leader who attained amataya (elite) status by securing a cabinet post remarked that it's time for Thaksin to come home.

"Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society."

Not true...the core Red Shirts would simply have disowned him sooner and the Country would have moved a step closer to civil war.

and you just need to look at my signature for the answers.

(sorry, missed one)

The day inner Bangkok went crazy shouldn't be forgotten | Bangkok Post: news

Just forget the coup, is what this propaganda says.

Demonstrations and anarchy, but not political or coup-connected.

Yeah right.

But another red shirt leader who attained amataya (elite) status

changing their supposedly prai, or proletariat, status to amataya.

those calling for reconciliation are the UDD amataya

The above three quotes promoting an agenda in a crude way.

As if repetition validates.

Just some more of the ole' 'divide and conquer' garbage

Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society.

I see.

So it wasn't the coup then? (damn, starting to sound like SD)

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

Why does the family simply pay all their outstanding taxes then he can come home.

There would be no unity in that. Did you read the article?

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Worth posting again for certain people.......... "Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society." In other words....he needed a bargaining chip....and he got it. 91 of them.

Absolute rubbish, SD. There was no prospect of reconciliation, whoever called for it, until something that even vaguely resembled a democratically elected government had been installed.

Originally Posted by baldrick

I do not believe the "amart" are as co-ordinated as many believe , else they would have acted before thaksin had managed to stack the judiciary in his favour - instead a coup was approved to stymie his efforts at power consolidation

So what about now fatboy?

Do you think the judiciary is now stacked in favour of Yingluck? Have another jelly donut.

Originally Posted by tomta

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Worth posting again for certain people.......... "Thai Rath noted that if Thaksin had called for national reconciliation before 2010, there would not have been the bloody clashes, arson and the unprecedented divisions in Thai society." In other words....he needed a bargaining chip....and he got it. 91 of them.

Absolute rubbish, SD. There was no prospect of reconciliation, whoever called for it, until something that even vaguely resembled a democratically elected government had been installed.

There was always a chance for reconciliation. However, Thaksin didn't have any leverage. He was on the run with a government that wasn't sympathetic to his cause (and failed to go after him despite their protestations, because they didn't actually want him back, as was said by myself and BF at the time. 'They' still don't!).

However, he could've sought to reconcile. You can always seek such a thing. There are no conditions for making such moves. No prerequisites. He didn't. Not a whimper. He knew he was in a very poor position. He needed something to force the issue, something that would garner public support, something that would push the Abhisit government in the direction he needed it to go. Guess what happened next.......

Believing otherwise just proves how utterly gullible you are. Joining the dots isn't that difficult Tomta.