Thread: Operation Fast & Furious

Originally Posted by Minnie Maugham

You are talking shite that *free* healthcare is the way to go.

Healthcare is not free (who said it was )- the Issue here is that in the USA it costs over double that of the rest of the first world for incomplete coverage, coverage that can be denied or lost, and health care costs are behind over 60% of bankruptcies in the USA (unsurprisingly, given the rip-off it is). That is an exceedingly raw deal for the US citizen compared to the rest of the First world, in fact it lags behind large swathes of the developing world in this regard.

I rarely needed health care in HK, I've been lucky to rarely need it anywhere (touch wood). But I found it excellent actually, and was particularly impressed when an expat friend of mine, bitten by one of them 'orrible black centipedes, was helivaced from Lamma island to the Queen Mary hospital in Pokfulam. Free. Much though I liked my private doctor and drinking buddy Kev, after a few years in HK I dispensed with his services actually- government clinics and hospitals were just fine for me, and a minute fraction of the cost. But just as in Australia, if you wanted to go private, you were perfectly free to do so in HK- 'up to you'.

Fast and furiously - it's a no brainer, tax funded healthcare for every citizen is such a huge success in many Countries in terms of quality healthcare for all rich and poor alike, in terms of much less stress knowing your children always will be safe, and be growing up healthy becoming stronger adults, less stress in knowing help is always at hand without added private economic chaos, the last thing you need when there is health issues to content with, and in terms of trust in your Country and paying your tax willingly because you know you are getting real seriously good value for that money.

Now if that is not enough - lo and behold.... it is much much cheaper for everybody as well as Sabang writes, and since education is "free" as well the citizens can make a simple calculation and would never buy the lies from wholly unnecessary and very expensive health insurance company's who wants to become an extra link in the chain nobody needs.

Hand-picking inevitable single mistakes and faults by such huge systems is not making justice to the overall preformance, the "Free" health care systems in the Nordic Countries is a huge success and strongly supported by a vast majority of citizens if not all, and that unchallenged success proves "Free" healthcare should be a basic human right in any Western modern society.

Well, isn't this charming:

‘ATF Needs To F–k These Guys:’ Issa, Grassley release details about Fast and Furious whistleblower retaliation, cover-up.

Just a partisan issue, eh?

More nails in Holder's coffin: Wiretap Application Shows Holder And DOJ Knew About Fast And Furious In Intricate Detail.



Darrell Issa Puts Details of Secret Wiretap Applications in Congressional Record : Roll Call News

Stick a fork in him. He's over-done...

Originally Posted by sabang

the first time he has used his executive privilege- unlike slick willy & dubya, who used it plenty.

Well, first time for everything. Like the first time Executive Privilege has been used when someone was killed, eh?

“I just want you to know that we are working on it. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”
- President Obama to Jim and Sarah Brady, in front of Press Secretary Jim Carney, when asked about gun control.

The guy who dreamed up the Assault Weapons Ban for Clinton then worked for Janet Napolitano, then was part of Obama’s transition team, then ran Fast And Furious as the US District Attorney for Arizona
In other words, they all knew about it from the very beginning, and it always WAS about taking a big chunk out of the Second Amendment, by forcing another Assault Weapons Ban.

Dennis K. Burke, who as a lawyer for the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee in the 1990s was a key player behind the enactment of the 1994 assault-weapons ban, and who then went on to become Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano’s chief of staff, and a contributor to
Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential primary campaign, and then a member of Obama’s transition team focusing on border-enforcement issues, ended up in the Obama administration as the U.S. attorney in Arizona responsible for overseeing Operation Fast and Furious.
When Obama nominated Burke to be U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona, Burke told the Arizona Capitol Times he believed he understood what the president and his attorney general wanted him to do.
“There’s clearly been direction provided already by President Obama and Attorney General Holder as to what they want to be doing, and this is an office that is at the center of the issues of border enforcement,” said Burke.


Obama Contributor, Who Helped Enact Assault-Weapons Ban, Ran

Originally Posted by Koojo

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by sabang

the first time he has used his executive privilege- unlike slick willy & dubya, who used it plenty.

Well, first time for everything. Like the first time Executive Privilege has been used when someone was killed, eh?

“I just want you to know that we are working on it. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”
- President Obama to Jim and Sarah Brady, in front of Press Secretary Jim Carney, when asked about gun control.

The guy who dreamed up the Assault Weapons Ban for Clinton then worked for Janet Napolitano, then was part of Obama’s transition team, then ran Fast And Furious as the US District Attorney for Arizona
In other words, they all knew about it from the very beginning, and it always WAS about taking a big chunk out of the Second Amendment, by forcing another Assault Weapons Ban.

Dennis K. Burke, who as a lawyer for the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee in the 1990s was a key player behind the enactment of the 1994 assault-weapons ban, and who then went on to become Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano’s chief of staff, and a contributor to
Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential primary campaign, and then a member of Obama’s transition team focusing on border-enforcement issues, ended up in the Obama administration as the U.S. attorney in Arizona responsible for overseeing Operation Fast and Furious.
When Obama nominated Burke to be U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona, Burke told the Arizona Capitol Times he believed he understood what the president and his attorney general wanted him to do.
“There’s clearly been direction provided already by President Obama and Attorney General Holder as to what they want to be doing, and this is an office that is at the center of the issues of border enforcement,” said Burke.


Obama Contributor, Who Helped Enact Assault-Weapons Ban, Ran

So do you think the average joe should have access to assault weapons BM?

If he's taken a firearms safety course and is not a convicted felon - yes.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Koojo

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by sabang

the first time he has used his executive privilege- unlike slick willy & dubya, who used it plenty.

Well, first time for everything. Like the first time Executive Privilege has been used when someone was killed, eh?

“I just want you to know that we are working on it. We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”
- President Obama to Jim and Sarah Brady, in front of Press Secretary Jim Carney, when asked about gun control.

The guy who dreamed up the Assault Weapons Ban for Clinton then worked for Janet Napolitano, then was part of Obama’s transition team, then ran Fast And Furious as the US District Attorney for Arizona
In other words, they all knew about it from the very beginning, and it always WAS about taking a big chunk out of the Second Amendment, by forcing another Assault Weapons Ban.

Dennis K. Burke, who as a lawyer for the Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee in the 1990s was a key player behind the enactment of the 1994 assault-weapons ban, and who then went on to become Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano’s chief of staff, and a contributor to
Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential primary campaign, and then a member of Obama’s transition team focusing on border-enforcement issues, ended up in the Obama administration as the U.S. attorney in Arizona responsible for overseeing Operation Fast and Furious.
When Obama nominated Burke to be U.S. Attorney for the District of Arizona, Burke told the Arizona Capitol Times he believed he understood what the president and his attorney general wanted him to do.
“There’s clearly been direction provided already by President Obama and Attorney General Holder as to what they want to be doing, and this is an office that is at the center of the issues of border enforcement,” said Burke.


Obama Contributor, Who Helped Enact Assault-Weapons Ban, Ran

So do you think the average joe should have access to assault weapons BM?

If he's taken a firearms safety course and is not a convicted felon - yes.

What was a convicted felon before he was a convicted felon?
Do you seriously believe everyone other than convicted felons are sane and responsible and safe in charge of an assault weapon?

^So, Boon Mee is changing the topic to the Assault Weapons non-Ban? I thought the brouhaha about F&F was that they didn't interdict enough weapons? It's as if right-wingers are irrational or something.

^The real brouhaha is about failure. The right wing loves failure and they celebrate it every chance they get. If the effort was a success they would be giving bonehead Bush credit for the program.

Failure brought about by AZ's insane gun laws, which the R's, craven to the NRA as they are, are unable to acknowledge.

Check this out - like where's the "b. Hussein Obama Murderer Commercial", eh?

Another Fast and Furious gun surfaces in murder plot.

^ So you are in favour of more gun sale regulations then?

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

^ So you are in favour of more gun sale regulations then?

More regulations are not going to solve the lunacy problem. If some whacko wants to obtain a weapon, he/she will do so. The only 'regulations' needed are those that allow a non-felon to obtain a carry permit more easily.

it's interesting how no one (important) really cares about this manufactured scandal anymore

even establishment republicans can see the writing on the wall and have lost interest.

the only people who do are gun nuts who think the president is going to take away their guns (despite all evidence to the contrary) and they were never going to vote for him anyway.

a massive swing and miss by the republicans trying make a scandal where there wasn't one ....just like solyndra.

Heh...manufactured scandal, eh?

"A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is.

It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels."

Source

We're going to hear more about this for sure.

Another one bites the dust.

Michael Horowitz, the Department of Justice inspector general, finally released his lengthy report on the operation. Horowitz is no Democratic hack. As Time's Massimo Calabresi reminds us, "Horowitz managed to impress the House GOP in briefings over the past week, and the report itself was met with support from all quarters…Issa himself called Horowitz and his report 'courageous.'" But there's more:

What none on the right are admitting is that Horowitz's report systematically reveals how irresponsible and speculative the accusations from their side have been.

For over a year, it's been an article of faith on the right that Fast and Furious was a carefully constructed scheme directed by the White House to trash the Second Amendment and build support for more gun control laws. It wasn't. Neither the White House nor Eric Holder had any idea what was going on. It was just a local operation that was badly botched. This makes Fast and Furious offically yet another lunatic conservative conspiracy theory that has bitten the dust in the cold light of reality.

Another Conservative Conspiracy Theory Bites the Dust | Mother Jones

^
Mother Jones indeed...

It seems State Run Media will want you to believe Operation Fast & Furious began with Dubya. Well, FAIL again there Libs!

President Obama Falsely Claims Fast and Furious Program “Begun Under the Previous Administration”




Would you buy a used car from this man?


Source

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Attorney General Eric Holder knew about the Fast and Furious gun program as far back as July 2010, which may contradict his statements to Congress, new documents suggest. [...] The documents, leaked to CNN, CBS and other news organizations on Capitol Hill, indicate that Holder knew about the program well before he said he first became aware of it in testimony to Congress..

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

"A high-ranking Mexican drug cartel operative currently in U.S. custody is making startling allegations that the failed federal gun-walking operation known as “Fast and Furious” isn’t what you think it is. It wasn’t about tracking guns, it was about supplying them — all part of an elaborate agreement between the U.S. government and Mexico’s powerful Sinaloa Cartel to take down rival cartels."

Originally Posted by sabang

For over a year, it's been an article of faith on the right that Fast and Furious was a carefully constructed scheme directed by the White House to trash the Second Amendment and build support for more gun control laws. It wasn't. Neither the White House nor Eric Holder had any idea what was going on. It was just a local operation that was badly botched. This makes Fast and Furious offically yet another lunatic conservative conspiracy theory that has bitten the dust in the cold light of reality.

BM is approaching Bill Kristol levels of being wrong about just about everything at this point!

Bill Kristol Urges the Republican Party to Dump Ron Paul - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic

^
Heh, wrong, eh?

Washington Post Corrects Obama On Fast & Furious.

The Washington Post deserves credit. The paper came out and gave President Obama three Pinocchio noses for his lie about the beginning of Operation Fast & Furious.

During his Univision town hall, President Obama claimed Fast & Furious started under the previous administration. I quickly corrected him, along with Jake Tapper at ABC News. Fast & Furious started in the fall of 2009, 9 months after President Obama was sworn in.

Facts Don't Lie, Man...

Fast and Furious was preceded by another basically identical gun running operation during Bush' tenure. You are arguing a semantic point.

The real point is that neither the Bush or Obama administrations had any idea of the existence of these operations, until long after they were known botch ups. The whole chain of approval and command was within the DEA & ATF at regional level, nothing to do with Washington. So the right wing noise brigade was totally wrong in it's manufactured hysteria. Holder did not lie to Congress, and of course the notion that it was some sort of left wing conspiracy (from the DEA) to 'take away our guns' is and was beyond ludicrous.

Originally Posted by sabang

Fast and Furious was preceded by another basically identical gun running operation during Bush' tenure. You are arguing a semantic point.

Big difference there. Fast & Furious killed a US citizen and dozens of Mexicans and the one preceding did not. Salient point is the Bush operation did not botch up but the Obama one did big-time.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Fast & Furious killed a US citizen and dozens of Mexicans and the one preceding did not.

You don't know that at all, neither do I. We do know that one of the guns from the botched FnF operation killed a US citizen. We don't know about all the other guns, or how many people of whatever nationality they may have killed. Regardless, the intrinsic point here is that the botch up had nothing to do with Washington, or either presidential administration.

Better luck with solyndra.

Originally Posted by sabang

the botch up had nothing to do with Washington.

The ATF isn''t run out of Washington?

Why was Holder held in Contempt of Congress for stonewalling?