Operation Fast & Furious

**Minnie Maugham** · 28-06-2012, 11:09 AM

^ And at least 5, even maybe 35, Dems will vote for contempt charge. Oops.

**Humbert** · 28-06-2012, 11:19 AM

At Fortune magazine, Katherine Eban does not merely debunk but positively the paranoid theory of the Fast & Furious case.

A six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. Several, including Voth, are speaking out for the first time.

How Fast and Furious reached the headlines is a strange and unsettling saga, one that reveals a lot about politics and media today. It's a story that starts with a grudge, specifically Dodson's anger at Voth. After the terrible murder of agent Terry, Dodson made complaints that were then amplified, first by right-wing bloggers, then by CBS. Rep. Issa and other politicians then seized those elements to score points against the Obama administration, which, for its part, has capitulated in an apparent effort to avoid a rhetorical battle over gun control in the run-up to the presidential election. …

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee....

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/27/the-truth-inside-the-conspiracy-theory.html

The investigation will reveal the whole affair to be another rethug witch hunt.

**raycarey** · 28-06-2012, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

The investigation will reveal the whole affair to be another rethug witch hunt.

whitewater redux.

**Panty Hamster** · 28-06-2012, 11:43 AM

Holder and Obama, fabricating a problem in order to cram more crap legislation on Americans.

Two amateur idiots got caught red-handed (that's blood). Buffoons.

**Humbert** · 28-06-2012, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Panty Hamster

Holder and Obama, fabricating a problem in order to cram more crap legislation on Americans.

Ah yes, now we get to the heart of their paranoia. The fear of a hidden agenda control gun sales.

**Boon Mee** · 28-06-2012, 04:57 PM

^
Ruby Ridge & Waco really did happen there Bert...

**Humbert** · 29-06-2012, 05:53 AM

^The Branch Davidians fried themselves. They can thank their idiot leader for their demise not the ATF.

**Boon Mee** · 29-06-2012, 10:17 AM

Eric Holder releases new statement: Fast and Furious was a tax.

The "Free bullets for Mexicans" tax, passed by Executive Order!

Indeed...

**Humbert** · 29-06-2012, 10:35 AM

^Don't make me laugh. The last thing republicans care about are dead Mexicans.

**sabang** · 29-06-2012, 10:40 AM

Inconveniently, the Head of the ATF has already testified that Operation Slow and Spurious was authorised at ATF level, not by the Whitehouse or Attorney general.
Conveniently, Darrell Issa (who carries plenty of baggage of his own) did not invite the Head of the ATF to testify before his 'fact finding' committee. Why might that be?

**Mr Earl** · 29-06-2012, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Inconveniently, the Head of the ATF has already testified that Operation Slow and Spurious was authorised at ATF level, not by the Whitehouse or Attorney general.
Conveniently, Darrell Issa (who carries plenty of baggage of his own) did not invite the Head of the ATF to testify before his 'fact finding' committee. Why might that be?

Then what is the executive privilege all about it, if the WH and DOJ had no hand in it?

**Minnie Maugham** · 29-06-2012, 11:06 AM

17 Dems voted to condemn Holdums. Black Congress ...? Racists.

**sabang** · 29-06-2012, 11:19 AM

^^ Confidential documents, that might compromise ATF operations is one possible explanation. Obama just saying "quit wasting my government's time", another. After all, he is acting within his rights as President, and this is the first time he has used his executive privilege- unlike slick willy & dubya, who used it plenty.

Those are my best guesses Earl, but I don't factually know the reason, and seeing as executive privilege has been invoked, neither do I expect to.

**robuzo** · 29-06-2012, 12:01 PM

The line of Boehner and the "responsible" wing of the Republican Party is to deny any knowledge of the sort of conspiracy theory described by the Underpants Rodent above. Issa has embarrassed himself badly, but probably isn't feeling quite so bad when it was discovered that he used to be car thief and insurance scammer.

**raycarey** · 29-06-2012, 12:11 PM

fortune magazine has exposed this 'scandal' for what it is.....nothing.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

and btw, now that the house has voted to find holder in contempt....where does this go next? oh yeah, that's right....to holder's office IOW......the end.

and btw, the teabaggers have to wonder why boehner decided to hold this vote on the very same day as the health care decision. it's because even boehner knows this is a manufactured scandal and he tried to bury the vote so it doesn't come back and bite him in the ass.....and end up losing him the gavel.

**robuzo** · 29-06-2012, 12:36 PM

^It's become an embarrassment for the Thugs.

**Boon Mee** · 29-06-2012, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Humbert

^The Branch Davidians fried themselves. They can thank their idiot leader for their demise not the ATF.

Wrong

Janet Reno's ATF thugs got the blaze started when they fired on the building.

**raycarey** · 29-06-2012, 05:22 PM

even the far right wing "national review" is now admitting that this 'scandal' is a joke and that issa should be ashamed of himself....

the theory that Fast and Furious was devised to promote gun control goes far beyond the evidence, as Issa basically admitted to ABC this weekend, and it does not withstand scrutiny. The chairman should be ashamed to have dabbled in it, and should fully retract his initial comment

Too Fast, Too Furious - Robert VerBruggen - National Review Online

let's be honest.....this really was a lame attempt at ginning up a scandal. sure it played pretty well in the right-wing blogosphere amongst the nut jobs, but that's really not saying much.

**Humbert** · 29-06-2012, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Humbert

^The Branch Davidians fried themselves. They can thank their idiot leader for their demise not the ATF.

Wrong

Janet Reno's ATF thugs got the blaze started when they fired on the building.

The blazes were started by the Davidians themselves in a endgame strategy devised by their looney leader David Koresh.

**Minnie Maugham** · 29-06-2012, 11:37 PM

FFS, the main issue in the contempt of Congress vote is the fact that Holder would not provide all the related documents. Even 17 libbies voted for it.

**sabang** · 29-06-2012, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Minnie Maugham

Holder would not provide all the related documents.

At the end of the day, he was acting under orders from the Potus (his Boss), who invoked executive privilege. So had Holder produced said documents, he would have been in considerable strife. Your 'argument' is surely with Obama, not the AG.

Incidentally, what's with the NRA sticking it's nose in this matter, where it doesn't belong? NRA lobbying is what 'turned' most (if not all) of those Democrat Congressmen anyway- yep, the chickenshits were thinking of the next elections naturally. It is no business of the NRA's getting involved with law enforcement operations, bungled or not.

**Minnie Maugham** · 30-06-2012, 12:42 AM

FFS, SB, Holder had almost a year to turn over the docs -- and why did Obama serve the exec order moments before the vote to vote for contempt of Holder?
The NRA is not stupid: the F & F was a ploy to control guns. Americans want their 2nd Amendment Rights. Guess why 17 libbies voted for contempt of Congress?

**S Landreth** · 30-06-2012, 01:41 AM

in a nutshell,.........

US Politics | AMERICAblog News: Chief proponent of "Fast and Furious" scandal predicts violent insurrection against USG over SCOTUS decision

You all know, at least marginally, about the Fast and Furious scandal. The gun issue that has the GOP voting to holder Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt.

And you may know that underlying the Far And Furious scandal is the belief by Republican members of Congress that President Obama is part of some government wide conspiracy to give guns to Mexican drug lords so that they can kill innocent American feds, and then Obama will use those murders to justify a nationwide crackdown on guns intended to eviscerate the Second Amendment once and for all.

GOP Rep. John Issa, who is taking the lead on Fast and Furious for Republicans in Congress have already publicly stated that he embraces this conspiracy theory. Other Republicans have as well:

Major Republicans, including Darrell Issa, endorse this conspiracy theory. Among those are Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), who is Chair of the House Oversight Committee and is heading up the investigation of Eric Holder. In an interview on FOX, Issa said, “very clearly, they made a crisis, and they’re using this crisis to somehow take away or limit people’s Second Amendment rights.” He also pushed the theory at an NRA convention. But Issa isn’t the only one who is buying in: former Presidential candidate Newt Gingrich just two days ago agreed with the theory. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA), Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), and many other Republicans have voiced support for this theory too.

Now, the man who started this conspiracy theory is an ex-militia blogger named Mike Vanderboegh.

And what did Vanderboegh have to say about the Supreme Court decision on health care reform? That if health care reform is not overturned by the Supremes, he's predicting "armed insurrection" against the "tyrannical" US government - he goes on to say that he is "on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime."

In the excerpts Vanderboegh posted on his blog "which deal with the decision today," he says of a then-potential decision upholding the health care law, "You may call tyranny a mandate or you may call it a tax, but it still is tyranny and invites the same response." He further predicts the response of his ilk: "If we refuse to obey, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will in time be jailed. If we refuse to report meekly to jail, we will be sent for by armed men. And if we refuse their violent invitation at the doorsteps of our own homes we will be killed -- unless we kill them first. ... I am on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime."

And who else is pushing Vanderboegh's conspiracy theory? The NRA.

The NRA is driving the conspiracy theory paranoia though ads. The National Rifle Association is furthering the paranoia as a way to rally gun owners by running advertisements and a petition calling on President Obama to fire Eric Holder. The ads don’t specifically mention the gun control conspiracy, but the Executive Director of the NRA’s Institute for Legislative Action is a full-throttle conspiracy believer. The NRA also threatened members of Congress who voted on the contempt charge yesterday, saying that a vote against contempt would reflect poorly on that member’s pro-gun ratings.

So to recap:

The NRA and Republican members of Congress (and a handful of Dems who voted with them, many of whom got NRA money) are doing the bidding of a somewhat-out-there conspiracy blogger who is now discussing the violent overthrow of the US government.

That's what Fast and Furious is really about. The violent takeover of the Republican party by lunatics.

**sabang** · 30-06-2012, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

You may call tyranny a mandate or you may call it a tax, but it still is tyranny and invites the same response.

Insane. I've both lived and worked in 4 countries, 3 of which have national health care systems- UK, Oz & HK. Are these Tyranny's

? Could've fooled me. Is Japan a tyranny? Singapore? Canada? Switzerland? The EU? All have national health care systems- indeed the US (the other country I've worked in) is unique amongst first world nations in adopting a national health care system so late, the apparent price it has paid for this omission being that it is paying over double the percentage of GDP the other first world nations (except Switzerland) are paying for healthcare, and incomplete HC at that.

What some ideologically driven folk in the US are considering an imposition or a tax, the rest of us consider a privilege- a privilege attached to having been born in, or gained citizenship of, a first world nation. That makes us lucky. Even luckier because we waste so much less money on it than yourselves in the USA, and we don't need to 'justify' to our health insurers why they should cover us- we are covered anyway, by virtue of citizenship. Our kids with diabetes are covered just as much as our kids without it. If we lose our job, we are still covered. How tyrannical, not.

So these ultra Right wing nutcases consider us (ranked the most free nations in the world) 'Tyrannies'. It makes me wonder what sort of Tyranny or Anarchy they want the USA to become. Certifiable, utter lunatics.

This is tyranny, and a form of tyranny I am happy not to have to live under-
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/h...e?_s=PM:HEALTH

**Minnie Maugham** · 30-06-2012, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Insane. I've both lived and worked in 4 countries, 3 of which have national health care systems- UK, Oz & HK.

You ever get healthcare in HK, SB? I asked for a checkup there once and they made an appt for me THREE years later. The UK was the same (gee, I lived there also and paid lots of taxes); pap smear: about 2 years for appt. You are talking shite that *free* healthcare is the way to go. Same in Japan: took ages for appts under *free* healthcare. Same in Canada, except for my own fam doc.

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