Thread: bring back the draft!

Originally Posted by Milkman

the "draft" which will not happen,it does shed light on not the military

i agree that the draft will never happen, but i think it is important to shed light on who is doing the fighting for 'us'....by and large it's the socio-economically disadvantaged.

^
Nothing new there, it was the same in Vietnam. It pretty much applies to the British army and probably any volunteer army and always has.
A point not really relevent in relation to Iraq.

i don't think i fully understand your point. wouldn't a draft go a long way in rectifying the imbalance that you've referred to and rep. rangel has brought to the fore?

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

But, we have already concluded that a conscript army is not as effective as a strictly volunteer, professional army.

that seems to be the conventional wisdom (certainly from those who volunteered), but honestly, could a conscript army have done any worse in iraq? and of course the better question is.....if it was a conscript army, would the US be in iraq at all? and the answer to that, of course, is no.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

unless, you hold the belief that the poorer the background you come from, the less intelligent you are.

of course not.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

Even when there was a draft during the Vietnam war, the rich kids managed to get out of it and the poorer elements of society couldn't, so, it wouldn't really fix your problem, would it?

if there were to be a draft, i don't think it would be difficult for a commission to plug the holes that the likes of cheney snuck through in the vietnam era.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

I think you're "tilting at wind-mills" here.

again, for any number of reasons i don't think the draft will be re-instated. but i do think it is time for the discussion about who is actually fighting these wars of choice, and whether or not that is just.

Well, as you've seen on this forum, most serving members and ex-service members are for the Iraq war. So, it's not like they are doing something against their conscience if this is representative of the serving members in Iraq today. I admit, it's a pretty small sample rate.

Originally Posted by Eliminator

raycarey doesn't want to talk about whether or not to have the draft, he just want to post about the rich not fighting there. This is his only goal as 99% of his topics will eventually bring this subject into the thread. He's beaten the dead horse to death and it's boring.

You must learn to base what you assert on facts, not on what you like to read into others' comments.

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by Eliminator

raycarey doesn't want to talk about whether or not to have the draft, he just want to post about the rich not fighting there. This is his only goal as 99% of his topics will eventually bring this subject into the thread. He's beaten the dead horse to death and it's boring.

You must learn to base what you assert on facts, not on what you like to read into others' comments.

Eliminator is still right re. the casket avatar...

If they do reinstate the draft Thailand had better brace for a whole new wave of fresh telfers oops there goes that pay raise some of you degree holders were hoping for !!!!

Originally Posted by stroller

But then, this was Germany.
Germans, military or not, don't have the same proclivity to brag about who they are and what they've achieved contrary to what seems to be a common trait amongst the yanks.

Perhaps this because Germany doesn't have much to brag about other than starting 2 world wars and murdering many millions of Jews, Slavs and other "sub-standard" ethnic groups. Germany became a major industrial power largely thanks to American know how.


But back on topic.

Liberal democrat Charlie Wrangels talk of bringing the draft is pure political and racist posturing. He thinks the draft picks on minorities unfairly.

Originally Posted by KID

If they do reinstate the draft Thailand had better brace for a whole new wave of fresh telfers oops there goes that pay raise some of you degree holders were hoping for !!!!

There goes ray's dream of a weekend in Pattaya then!

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

He thinks the draft picks on minorities unfairly.

and the 'poor'.


but i suppose you don't.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Perhaps this because Germany doesn't have much to brag about other than starting 2 world wars and murdering many millions of Jews, Slavs and other "sub-standard" ethnic groups.

You'd be surprised what these military types are proud of! It's just that they don't feel the need to publicly announce it at every opportunity, specially when all they've done is sitting in an office for 30 years - the yanks, naturally, have quite a different attitude.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Germany became a major industrial power largely thanks to American know how.

Bullshit, the States benefited from the brain-drain in Germany during the nazi period, and helped some Nazis escape later to benefit from their expertise as well.

The US has benefited the most from the fall of the Nazi, getting talented refugees on both side of the fence

Originally Posted by Butterfly

The US has benefited the most from the fall of the Nazi, getting talented refugees on both side of the fence

Right...
Werner Von Braun and his crew were 'tainted'?
Your sense of history is really screwed-up, B-Fly...

Care to expand on your off-hand remark?
It doesn't make sense as it stands now.

here's the quote (at least as it was written on boonies "little green footballs" link....

I want to make it abundantly clear: if there’s anyone who believes that these youngsters want to fight, as the Pentagon and some generals have said, you can just forget about it. No young, bright individual wants to fight just because of a bonus and just because of educational benefits. And most all of them come from communities of very, very high unemployment. If a young fella has an option of having a decent career or joining the army to fight in Iraq, you can bet your life that he would not be in Iraq.

which part do you take issue with boonie? where is the 'slur'?

be careful to read what he actually said...not what you want him to have said.

and as far as that graph from the laughable 'heritage foundation' is concerned, take a look at the title...."by neighborhood income levels". what a joke.

It is you who are totally clueless, ray.
If you think for one minute that every swinging-dick GI in Iraq is from a lower socio-economic strata of society without the opportunity of gaining a good-paying job - you're dead wrong. As I've posted before, there's loads of boys from upper middle-class families itching to get over there and whack an Islamo. Just because it's the anthisis of what you'd want to do don't make it real.

Get your head out of that so-called Ivory Tower TEFLer mind-set...

We went over this in another thread: the vast majority (66&#37 come from families making less than the median income for families in the United States.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

It is you who are totally clueless, ray.
If you think for one minute that every swinging-dick GI in Iraq is from a lower socio-economic strata of society without the opportunity of gaining a good-paying job - you're dead wrong. As I've posted before, there's loads of boys from upper middle-class families itching to get over there and whack an Islamo. Just because it's the anthisis of what you'd want to do don't make it real.

Boon Me,

Can you provide any statistics and link about the "upper middle families itching to get over there and whack an Islamo?"

They could have volunteered. It's easier than ever before. The age limit has been raised, and many requirement lowered.

Where are they?

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

It is you who are totally clueless, ray.
If you think for one minute that every swinging-dick GI in Iraq is from a lower socio-economic strata of society without the opportunity of gaining a good-paying job - you're dead wrong. As I've posted before, there's loads of boys from upper middle-class families itching to get over there and whack an Islamo. Just because it's the anthisis of what you'd want to do don't make it real.

Boon Me,

Can you provide any statistics and link about the "upper middle families itching to get over there and whack an Islamo?"

They could have volunteered. It's easier than ever before. The age limit has been raised, and many requirement lowered.

Where are they?

If I had the time and inclination to Google all of this I'd provide those 'hard' statistics. Other than the graph I put up the other day my basis of understanding comes from personal experience with a couple boys who are over there right now and one or two who hope that it won't be all over before they can ship out. MSM likes to paint the worst-case sceniro and thus the left-wingers aboard here use that propaganda to state their case...