Thread: The Libyan Crisis

Originally Posted by nostromo

Russia was about the only country to support Libyan Gaddafi government. I dont know maybe north Korea supported him too.

You are eating up the propaganda of the day like a simple minded lemming. It wasn't two or three years ago the West was calling Gaddafi a changed man, who is embracing peace and open markets. It wasn't two or three years ago Tony Blair was sitting in Gaddafis tent drink mint tea and smoking hookah, and Gaddafi was visiting the capitals of major European countries, visiting guys like Sarkozy the Berlusconi.

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Originally Posted by nostromo

Russia was about the only country to support Libyan Gaddafi government. I dont know maybe north Korea supported him too.

You are eating up the propaganda of the day like a simple minded lemming. It wasn't two or three years ago the West was calling Gaddafi a changed man, who is embracing peace and open markets. It wasn't two or three years ago Tony Blair was sitting in Gaddafis tent drink mint tea and smoking hookah, and Gaddafi was visiting the capitals of major European countries, visiting guys like Sarkozy the Berlusconi.

Oh fuck off with that nonsense Gribbs. Everyone knew it was all about oil contracts when Blair was kissing arse.

Cameron even took a bunch of fucking arms dealers to Cairo to help them with their "Arab Spring".

Just because we share the same nationality as these scumbag politicians, it doesn't mean we don't think they are c**ts.

One of my former bosses was on Pan Am 107 with his family, and I can assure you I was not happy with the Blair brown nosing (although I'm sure the Tories would have done the same).

To me the word "politician" is a euphemism for scum sucking bottom feeder.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

To me the word "politician" is a euphemism for scum sucking bottom feeder

Hear Hear to that.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Oh fuck off with that nonsense Gribbs

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Just because we share the same nationality as these scumbag politicians, it doesn't mean we don't think they are c**ts.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

To me the word "politician" is a euphemism for scum sucking bottom feeder.

Agree with you "arry" especially the paragraph re "gwibbs"!

BANI WALID, Libya, Sept. 12 (UPI) -- Forces loyal to deposed Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi attacked an oil refinery on the Mediterranean coast Monday, leaders of rebel forces said.

The attack in the port of Ras Lanuf was the first significant action by the loyalists since rebels drove them from Tripoli, the capital, four weeks ago, The New York Times reported.

The Transitional National Council, the governing body formed by rebel forces, said the attack was apparently a response to news that the council had taken steps to restart oil production at the refinery.

Intense fighting outside one of Gadhafi's last strongholds was reported as Libya's new leaders moved to unite fighting factions.

The announcement of unity efforts Sunday by the transitional council came amid reports of infighting and arguments among fighters surrounding the city of Bani Walid after they encountered resistance during an assault, CNN reported Monday.

Bani Walid was one of three communities still controlled by Gadhafi loyalists.

Fighting raged in Bani Walid after negotiators failed to reach agreement on the city's surrender to the NTC.

Forces loyal to Gadhafi in the city were heavily armed, NTC spokesman Abdulrahman Busin told CNN.

Gadhafi's whereabouts were unknown.

A convoy of troops left the front in Bani Walid after arguing with another group of fighters from the city, witnesses said.

Negotiations have begun with bands of fighters to bring them under the control of the NTC, the organization's chairman, Mahmoud Jibril, said.

However, a spokesman for a new Tripoli military council said the plan was "unacceptable."

Jibril announced that a transitional governing executive committee will be created within 10 days and will include representation from across Libya, including areas of the country still under siege.

Nigerian Justice Minister Marou Amadou said one of Gadhafi's sons, Saadi, along with eight former Libyan officials, fled escaped from Libya and were in Niger, The New York Times reported.

News about Saadi Gadhafi prompted Libya's new leaders to call for his immediate extradition to Libya to stand trial, The Washington Post reported.

"These people should not be allowed to get away with the crimes they have committed," said Jalal al-Gallal, a spokesman for the rebels. "Neighboring countries should not be allowed to provide safe haven to these criminals."

At least three Libyan convoys have entered Niger recently, carrying generals, Gadhafi family members and low-ranking regime personnel, Niger officials said.

Moamma Gadhafi's wife, two other sons and some others fled recently to Algeria, which said it accepted them on humanitarian grounds.

Gadhafi's foreign intelligence chief, Bouzaid Dorda, was in rebel custody, CNN reported.

Link

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Originally Posted by nostromo

Russia was about the only country to support Libyan Gaddafi government. I dont know maybe north Korea supported him too.

You are eating up the propaganda of the day like a simple minded lemming. It wasn't two or three years ago the West was calling Gaddafi a changed man, who is embracing peace and open markets. It wasn't two or three years ago Tony Blair was sitting in Gaddafis tent drink mint tea and smoking hookah, and Gaddafi was visiting the capitals of major European countries, visiting guys like Sarkozy the Berlusconi.

Oh fuck off with that nonsense Gribbs. Everyone knew it was all about oil contracts when Blair was kissing arse.

Cameron even took a bunch of fucking arms dealers to Cairo to help them with their "Arab Spring".

Just because we share the same nationality as these scumbag politicians, it doesn't mean we don't think they are c**ts.

One of my former bosses was on Pan Am 107 with his family, and I can assure you I was not happy with the Blair brown nosing (although I'm sure the Tories would have done the same).

To me the word "politician" is a euphemism for scum sucking bottom feeder.

I've about had enough of your stupid shit. First off who do you think elects the leaders and political parties that rule Britain? I will tell you it isn't the fucking Algerians or Mexicans, its the British. The same British who were flocking to Libya to work, the same ones who were calling Gaddafi a man of peace no less than 18 months ago. There are loads more countries that were more hellish to live in then Gaddafi's Libya, they just don't happen to be supplying Europe with oil, and that is why Gaddafi is back on the shit list again.

[quote=Mr Gribbs;1872968]I've about had enough of your stupid shit. First off who do you think elects the leaders and political parties that rule Britain? I will tell you it isn't the fucking Algerians or Mexicans, its the British.[quote]

Well fuck me, what a revelation. Thanks for your sparkling insight.

Of course, as I said, it makes no difference which of the parties is in charge, since at the end of the day they are all self-serving arseholes. And the current system ensures the continuity of the three party system and the continued supply of professional wankers to fill it.

As for your "believing propaganda" theory, the very politicians that probably would have preferred to maintain the status quo and kept Gadaffi in power have been forced to act in order to keep their noses clean with the GCC, Egypt and Israel, all of whom know Gaddafi is a nutter, and who consider the removal of him and his family to be a good thing.

Why do you think no-one, bar a few of his mickey mouse African junta mates, put up much of a fight against the NATO action?

One thing I will agree with is that NATO definitely swung the balance in this war, but with the military power that Gaddafi was using against his own people, I don't think it was unjust. That does not in any way commend the motivation of the people that ordered it, which I suspect was more in their own interests than the battered rebels.

Oh, and for sure Europe wanted this settled to avoid yet another flood of muslim refugees pouring into their countries with their hands out, demanding Sharia law everywhere.

[quote=harrybarracuda;1872989][quote=Mr Gribbs;1872968]I've about had enough of your stupid shit. First off who do you think elects the leaders and political parties that rule Britain? I will tell you it isn't the fucking Algerians or Mexicans, its the British.

Well fuck me, what a revelation. Thanks for your sparkling insight.

Of course, as I said, it makes no difference which of the parties is in charge, since at the end of the day they are all self-serving arseholes. And the current system ensures the continuity of the three party system and the continued supply of professional wankers to fill it.

As for your "believing propaganda" theory, the very politicians that probably would have preferred to maintain the status quo and kept Gadaffi in power have been forced to act in order to keep their noses clean with the GCC, Egypt and Israel, all of whom know Gaddafi is a nutter, and who consider the removal of him and his family to be a good thing.

Why do you think no-one, bar a few of his mickey mouse African junta mates, put up much of a fight against the NATO action?

One thing I will agree with is that NATO definitely swung the balance in this war, but with the military power that Gaddafi was using against his own people, I don't think it was unjust. That does not in any way commend the motivation of the people that ordered it, which I suspect was more in their own interests than the battered rebels.

They didn't put up much of a fight because they don't want to die, or languish in a prison for a decade. There is nothing kosher about the entire Libya fiasco. A few rebels get the supposedly most powerful military alliance in history to bomb the sitting leader of a country who they say was helping them in their fight against "terrorist," while they support the rebels led by a guy who was considered an Islamist "terrorist!"

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Oh, and for sure Europe wanted this settled to avoid yet another flood of muslim refugees pouring into their countries with their hands out, demanding Sharia law everywhere.

Gaddafi actually signed an accord with Italy a few years to stop the flood of illegal immigrants landing on Italian soil, which greatly reduced the number of immigrants getting into Europe.


Italy to sign deal with Libya to stop illegal immigration



Published 25 August 2004 - Updated 29 January 2010

Tags
illegal immigration



Under a deal between Rome and Tripoli, Italy is set to take part in the patrolling of the Libyan coast to stop the flow of illegal immigration from Africa.

Italy is stepping up its efforts to get to grips with the problem of illegal immigration from North Africa. Attemps by would-be immigrants to reach Italian soil has resulted in hundreds of tragic drowning accidents in recent years.
On a visit to Libya on 25 August the Italian PM Silvio Berlusconi is expected to conclude an agreement with Libya. The deal will lay the basis for shared patrolling of the Libyan coastline from which 'people-trafficking' boats set sail for the Italian islands of Sicily and Lampedusa.
According to Le Monde, Italy will deliver high tech surveillance equipment and speedboats under the deal that has been ready for more than a year. Apart from the need for fine tuning, the main stumbling block has come in the form of counterclaims from Tripoli eager to draw further advantages from Rome in return for what is seen as a loss of Libyan sovereignty.
In what will initially be a training programme, Italian policemen will help their Libyan colleagues to become familiar with the equipment. However, the patrol boats are soon to be manned by mixed nationality teams.
The deal comes shortly after Rocco Buttiglione, the EU's next Italian Justice, Freedom and Security Commissioner, identified immigration as "a time bomb". Calling for more co-operation by EU Member States, he backed proposals to establish EU-supported 'immigration gateways' in transit countries such as Libya and Tunisia.(See EurActiv 24 August 2004 )

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

A few rebels get the supposedly most powerful military alliance in history to bomb the sitting leader of a country who they say was helping them in their fight against "terrorist," while they support the rebels led by a guy who was considered an Islamist "terrorist!"

incredible, isn't it ? maybe they are running out of terrorists and Amerika needed new ones for their continuing WoT

BENGHAZI: For the past few days, the inhabitants of Benghazi, the cradle of the Libyan revolution, have been called on in the media and in pamphlets to turn up in their tens of thousands to a demonstration on Friday in the city’s main square. It is named the “Million Demonstration.”

.... The objective of the protest is three “Noes” — no to centralization (that is a unitary state controlled from Tripoli), no to ex-Qaddafi figures such as his former Prime Minister Abdussalam Jalloud being given positions in the new government, and no to political and religious opportunists trying to steal the revolution.
Libya reconnects with its pre-Qaddafi past - Arab News

An interesting snippet from the same article of soccer, politics, and life under a personality cult dictator-


"A less drastic fate was accorded the remains of Omar Mukhtar (Libyan Freedom fighter, national hero). Forty year after being interred in the mausoleum, a resentful and jealous Qaddafi had them removed to the village of Soluq, some 60 km from Benghazi. The order reveals a story of paranoia, despotism and petty-minded vengeance worthy of a Nero or a Caligula. It also speaks of Qaddafi’s delusions about his own self-importance. He had Omar Mukhtar re-buried near his own father’s grave.

What triggered the removal of the body and tomb was football. Benghazi had Libya’s oldest team, Al Ahly, founded by members of the Senussi movement linked to Omar Mukhtar. But just as there are other teams in the Arab world of the same name, so too one was established in Tripoli and it had a powerful supporter — Qaddafi’s passionate but mediocre footballer son Saadi. Being his father’s son allowed him both to captain the Tripoli team and to fix matches in its favor.

The dispute over the name brought the Benghazi team into Saadi’s particular disfavor and he set out to make it suffer. At its matches, referees would award penalties to the opposing team; good players were poached by other clubs. By 2000, the Benghazi fans had had enough. Defeated in a decisive relegation match thanks to another highly dubious penalty award by the referee, the fans took to the streets. They dressed up a donkey in Al Ahly Tripoli’s colors, putting Saadi’s number on it.

The Qaddafis’ fury was instant and ruthless. Fans were arrested and imprisoned. Three were condemned to death although the sentences were not carried out. A few weeks later, on Sept. 1, the anniversary of Qaddafi’s seizure of power, the club was closed and bulldozers were sent in to destroy its offices and training grounds. At that point, the fans took to the city’s most famous monument, Omar Mukhtar’s mausoleum, to protest. “We are Omar Mukhtar’s grandsons,” they shouted, referring to the club’s connection with freedom-fighter’s movement. “We are not afraid of Abu Minyar” (the Qaddafi family surname — meaning that they were not afraid of the Qaddafi family.)

Qaddafi’s petulant response was to tear down the mausoleum and remove the body."

Anti-Gaddafi Troops Enter Sirte Under Heavy Fire

News > World News
5:03am 16th September 2011.
Anti-Gaddafi fighters have reportedly entered the former dictator's home town of Sirte about 280 miles east of Tripoli.
A military spokesman for the National Transitional Council (NTC) has said the troops came under heavy fire from fighters loyal to the ousted leader.
"They have now entered the city," said Abdulrahman Busin, spokesman for the NTC.
"There was a coordinated push from the south, east and west and from along the coast. I'm not sure how far they have been able to enter.
"They are coming under heavy fire. There is a particular problem with snipers."
After nearly seven months of fighting, NTC forces backed by Nato air power control most of Libya, including oil-producing centres and the capital Tripoli, which they seized last month.
They have met fierce resistance in a handful of pro-Gaddafi strongholds such as Sirte, the desert town of Bani Walid and southern outpost of Sabha.
Gaddafi, wanted by the International Criminal Court, has also gone into hiding and is rumoured to be hiding in one of the loyalist strongholds.
Britain and France are expected to press for a new United Nations Security Council resolution on Libya today, in the wake of the historic visit to the country by David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy.
The motion - expected to be put to a vote later - would give the NTC access to more of the frozen Libyan assets and lift the no-fly zone.
But it could encounter trouble from Russia, which has complained that the UK and France went beyond the previous resolution 1973 in trying to eject former dictator Muammar Gaddafi.
Prime Minister Mr Cameron and President Sarkozy received a hero's welcome on Thursday as they visited the capital Tripoli, then addressed a jubilant crowd in Benghazi.
Less than four weeks after Gaddafi was deposed, the two architects of Nato air strikes against his regime flew in to demonstrate their support for the fledging new government which has replaced him.
At a joint news conference in Tripoli, they pledged continued assistance to the country Mr Cameron called "free Libya", including stepping up efforts to unfreeze assets held overseas.
In Benghazi's Freedom Square the pair were given an ecstatic reception by a crowd waving British and French flags alongside the old Libya flag adopted by the anti-Gaddafi rebels.


Link

TNC-NATO siege of Sirte is a war crime.

"NATO and the Transitional National Council in Libya (or Paris or Qatar or wherever it is) have reportedly given the people of Sirte ten days to surrender or face a full military onslaught. This is not a cease-fire. While they await their fate, they will still be subject to artillery fire and NATO bombing, and food, water and electricity have already been cut off.

This closely resembles the tactics adopted toward resistance-held towns in Iraq by U.S. occupation forces. On October 14th 2004, the Washington Post reported that water and electricity supplies to Falluja had been cut off, one day before the start of Ramadan. Its population was then starved and bombarded for 3 weeks before the final assault by U.S. Marines that killed 4,000 to 6,000 civilians."

^ well the good news is that America and EU can no longer pretend to be something else but ruthless invaders, like 95% of the world they keep trying to change

looks like we haven't evolved much since our colonial days, and we are back to the Napoleon regime

Originally Posted by OhOh

you cannot trust them

As applies to 99.99999% of these goat shaggers!

Originally Posted by Butterfly

looks like we haven't evolved much since our Congo days

Easily fixed that one for you "pupa"!

According to Fox News, a Libyan rebel "spokesman" recently boasted, "in the end, we will get [the city of] Sirte, even if we have to cut water and electricity and let NATO pound it with airstrikes." Sirte is one of many cities still standing in defiance of NATO's operations to seize the nation of 6 million people, impose upon them an "internationally approved" government, and begin pilfering their resources under the guise of "economic liberalization." Rebels have intentionally surrounded Sirte to cut off electricity as well as the flow of supplies including food and cooking gas in a bid to literally "starve the city into submission," as reported by the London Telegraph. This latest boast by rebels, now operating openly with notorious Al Qaeda members leading their fighters, and still with full military support from NATO, seems to suggests that water will be cut as well.

According to the International Committee of the Red Cross, the denial of humanitarian assistance is a crime under international law. The Red Cross adds that "a massacre is not necessarily committed only with knives." While many will attempt to portray the premeditated creation of a humanitarian disaster as "more humane" than taking the city of Sirte by force - rebels have in fact already tried to take the city by force and were soundly repelled. NATO airstrikes have apparently proved ineffective and other cities are now bolstering their defenses and rejecting calls by the NATO-backed Al Qaeda fighters to surrender. As the deadline for NATO's military intervention grows increasingly nearer, their efforts to seize the nation have become increasingly more desperate and in proportion more depraved.

As has been pointed out and now clearly evident in Tripoli, the Benghazi rebels backed by NATO are not motivated by inclinations of "democracy" but rather tribal, ethnic, and viciously racial prejudices. Reuters has recently tried to whitewash what is essentially wholesale genocide being waged against Tripoli's black population by the Benghazi rebels led by Al Qaeda's notorious al-Hasidi. The targeting of Tripoli's black population has been entirely written off by the corporate media as rebels pursuing "suspected mercenaries." Why then would Sirte, Bani Waled, or any other city still standing soundly in defiance of these rebels and NATO, surrender and subject themselves to ensured genocide?

We are faced with a textbook case of a very real crime against humanity, yet the International Criminal Court is utterly silent, as are the voices in the UN that were vigorously clamoring to authorize war against Libya back in March of 2011. Silent also are the fraudulent George Soros Open Society-funded Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International (page 10) organizations. The ICC and the supporting myriad of contrived rights advocates once again demonstrates they are illegitimate institutions contrived solely to serve Wall Street and London's interests in a clearly one-sided manner. It is no wonder why the African Union has wholly rejected the International Criminal Court's decisions made against Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi or why nations across the world exhibit increasing hostility toward "independent" NGOs like Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, and Amnesty International. Nations should not be expected to permit such organizations to operate within their borders when in reality their goal is not defending human rights but finding a predicate for foreign military intervention on behalf of the corporate-financier interests that fund them.

Who Watches the "Watchers?"

So who does the world turn to when the "international community" begins recklessly mass-murdering entire populations, shutting off entire cities from food and water to "starve them into submission," and "pound" civilian populations with airstrikes? The answer is, we turn to ourselves - the individual - who on a daily basis have facilitated in the first place the corporations and banks of Wall Street and London who are the perpetrators of these horrendous crimes. We have created these world-spanning financial and corporate empires, given them the power to act against entire nation-states with absolute impunity, so it must be we the people who rein back in this terrible power.

Just as we gave them this power by dedicating our time, money, talents, and attention to them, we can take it back by denying them likewise our time, money, talents, and attention. Turn to local alternatives, do without when we can, and entirely replace these corporations with local solutions systematically. If these elitists impose regulations to prevent such activity, take a cue from the brave people of America's Northeast who have passed local ordinances to cancel out US federal dictates. Ultimately, we must remember that these people are not the progressive, enlightened, caretakers of humanity they attempt to portray themselves as.

The global elite are essentially violent thugs, dressing up their tyranny with the trappings of religion, civilization, political legitimacy,and faux progress. We must be prepared defend ourselves, our communities, and our nation-states intellectually, politically, socially, financially, and physically. Our denial of this terrible and ever-growing tyranny will not spare us when its attention finally shifts toward our homes, families, businesses, and communities. Just as the Soviets or the Nazis worked their way from foreigners, then the fringes of society, before it began cannibalizing its own people, so too will this global Wall Street-London tyranny. It was the Iraqis yesterday, it is the Libyans today, it may be the Syrians tomorrow, but inevitably it will be all of us. Better to stand up now than allow the tragic wheel of history to make yet another predictable revolution.

For a list of many of the corporations responsible for these increasingly egregious crimes against humanity, please see, "Naming Names." Activist Post: Libya: NATO Enabling War Crimes

ZAGREB -- Libyan rebels executed without trial "several dozen people", among them citizens of Serbia and Croatia, writes a Croatian daily

Zagreb-based Večernji List says that 12 Serbians, 9 Croatians, 11 Ukrainians and 10 Colombians were among those captured, and then shot and killed by the rebels, while other victims "were not identified".

The newspaper is quoting the rebels in Misrata who claim that "a group of foreign mercenaries" was inside "the security building" in the town's center - and that those who did not die in the fighting were "convicted on the spot".

"A bullet to the head and goodbye forever," a local rebel commander was quoted as saying, and then adding: "Those are murderers, not soldiers, they are people who are heartlessly killing for money."

In Belgrade, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said they had no information about Serbian citizens being executed.

"We saw this in the newspapers and we are checking it. As for the five Serbian citizens detained in Zintan, we are in contact with them and they are doing well, while we're doing all we can to set them free," an official of the ministry was quoted as saying.

Meanwhile, Sarajevo-based newspaper Dnevni Avaz quoted military analyst Ljubodrag Stojadinović as saying that "Serb mercenaries were everywhere where there was a war".

Amnesty International for its part said that "both sides" in the Libya war committed war crimes, and warned that "violence would escalate unless order was established"

B92 - News - "Serbs, Croats executed by rebels in Libya"

it's really another world when the Pravda is speaking the truth and exposing what the west is all about