The Libyan Crisis

**Pol the Pot** · 08-09-2011, 09:43 AM

I hope they take out Saif if they get him in Bani Walid, he deserves it.

**Butterfly** · 08-09-2011, 10:02 AM

and the usual farang fascists are speaking

**sabang** · 08-09-2011, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

More of your "gut" feelings or absorbed propaganda?

Is the fact you are trying to justify the Qadaffi regime "gut" feelings or absorbed propaganda? The fact is, more Libyans agree with me than agree with you. Oh, thats right, I just absorbed some more propaganda.

**harrybarracuda** · 08-09-2011, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Way to go.

Take one quiet country, stir up a revolution, bomb the legitimate government back to the hills, let 5 or 6 warring factions take over and distribute arms to anyone with a truck.

Small price to pay to remove a dictator who has been torturing and executing the people under his control for four decades.

Legitimate government? You truly are an arse.

**Butterfly** · 08-09-2011, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

The fact is, more Libyans agree with me than agree with you.

link ?

**Pol the Pot** · 08-09-2011, 12:24 PM

Good news, they caught Huda Ben Amir, variously known as The Vampire, The Devil, The Executioner!

Came to prominence as the woman who jumped a guy being hanged and pulled on his body, all on one of the Crazy One's prime time TV executions. Was in the Crazy One's good books after that.

I don't even want to know what she's going through now...

**harrybarracuda** · 08-09-2011, 12:52 PM

The West pandered to Qadaffi for far too long but as usual successive political leaders didn't have the balls to risk to rocking their boats.

Fletcher and Lockerbie are two simple examples of how Qadaffi was able to stick two fingers up to the rest of the world and the sooner someone rids the world of the likes of Qadaffi the better!

Well said Rodders!

**StrontiumDog** · 09-09-2011, 10:31 PM

Secret Intelligence Documents Discovered in Libya

Files Show Intimate Relationship Between CIA, MI6, and Libya

September 8, 2011

Among the files were documents confirming that both the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the United Kingdom’s MI6 sent terrorism suspects to Libya for detention – despite Libya’s notorious record for torturing prisoners.

Human Rights Watch discovered in Tripoli tens of thousands of archived documents containing evidence of crimes – such as the US and UK governments’ complicity in torture – committed during Col. Muammar Gaddafi’s rule

The documents were found in the office of Musa Kusa, Gaddafi’s former intelligence chief. We viewed several hundred documents and photographed about 300, but didn’t remove any. We have been working with Libya’s National Transitional Council (NTC) to secure the building, keeping the documents safe so they can be used as evidence in court. We continue to scour Tripoli for more documents, trying to ensure that archives are secure.

Among the files were documents confirming that both the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the United Kingdom’s MI6 sent terrorism suspects to Libya for detention – despite Libya’s notorious record for torturing prisoners.

The CIA communications that we saw were drafted while George W. Bush was president and included information like flight schedules and lists of questions to be asked of suspects. They also established that the CIA sent agents to interrogate suspects in Libyan custody.

This confirms Human Rights Watch’s earlier findings of US and UK complicity in the torture of suspects in foreign countries, published in 2004. The US says it has not transferred any detainees to Libya since 2007.

CIA renditions

The files we reviewed included details of at least four renditions, including that of Abdul Hakim Belhaj, former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group and now rebel military commander in Tripoli. The group sought to overthrow Gaddafi in the 1990s and played a major role in the current revolt.

During a mission to Libya in 2009, Human Rights Watch interviewed Belhaj. At the time, he was in Abu Salim prison, where Gaddafi locked away political prisoners and the site of a notorious 1996 prison massacre. It was also where Libya detained many of the prisoners transferred by the CIA. Belhaj said that he and his pregnant wife were detained in Malaysia in 2004, then rendered to Libya. He said CIA agents interrogated him about alleged ties to al-Qaeda – ties he denied – and beat and hung him by his limbs on a wall.

Diplomatic assurances

An analysis of the documents viewed by Human Rights Watch reinforces the need to end the policy of relying upon “diplomatic assurances” by governments that torture that they will treat prisoners transferred to them humanely. At least two of the documents – one involving Belhaj – show that the US sought assurances that Libya would respect the rights of rendered suspects. But it is inconceivable, given the Gaddafi regime’s record of torture – acknowledged by the State Department – that the US government took these assurances seriously.

**StrontiumDog** · 09-09-2011, 10:40 PM

BBC News - Libya conflict: Gaddafi general 'flees to Niger'

9 September 2011 Last updated at 13:26 GMT

Libya conflict: Gaddafi general 'flees to Niger'

Muammar Gaddafi now has several international arrest warrants out for him

A senior general in Libyan ex-leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces has fled to Niger, according to local sources.

Officials in the Niger town of Agadez named the commander as General Ali Kana, a Tuareg in charge of Col Gaddafi's southern troops.

Interpol has issued an arrest warrant for Col Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam and spy chief Abdullah al-Sanussi, whose whereabouts are still unknown.

Gaddafi loyalists still fighting face an ultimatum to surrender on Saturday.

The National Transitional Council (NTC) has been trying to negotiate a peaceful resolution to stand-offs in a handful of areas - including Bani Walid, Jufra, Sabha and Col Gaddafi's birthplace of Sirte.

NTC forces last week warned loyalists that they must surrender by Saturday, or face a military onslaught.

The BBC's Richard Galpin, in the Bani Walid region, says there have been further clashes there ahead of the Saturday deadline, with Grad rockets being fired by pro-Gaddafi forces holding out in the town. There are also reports of clashes near Sirte.

Tuareg ties

Col Gaddafi has said he will not leave Libya - and has urged his supporters to fight.

But in recent days several convoys of formerly loyal fighters have streamed over the border with Niger.

A number of Col Gaddafi's aides - including his chief of security Mansour Daw - have already reached the capital, Niamey.

Officials in Agadez said the latest convoy consisted of at least three vehicles carrying a dozen people - among them at least two senior generals and four top officials.

Reuters news agency reported that they were accompanied by security forces from Niger.

Sources in Agadez have told the BBC that the convoy members have checked into a hotel built by Col Gaddafi.

The central government has not yet commented on the latest claims.

Col Gaddafi helped to fund rebellions by nomadic Tuareg fighters against the governments of Mali and Niger during the 1970s and 80s.

Many of the rebels went on to serve in Gaddafi's armies.

Officials in Niger, which recently installed democracy after decades of authoritarianism, said they were letting in many sub-Saharan Africans from Libya on humanitarian grounds.

The Niger government has recognised the NTC's authority, but said it had not yet decided whether it would allow Col Gaddafi to enter the country.

One source from Niger's Tuareg community told Agence France-Presse that a convoy of Gaddafi loyalists that left Libya about three weeks ago and said to include "generals and senior officials", had now moved from Niger to neighbouring Burkina Faso. The report cannot be independently confirmed.

In a phone message broadcast on Syria's al-Rai TV late on Wednesday, Col Gaddafi was forced to deny persistent rumours that he had already fled over the border.

He dismissed the claims as lies and psychological warfare and insisted he would still be able to defeat his opponents.

In addition to rocket fire near Bani Walid on Friday, exchanges of rockets were reported about 60km (40 miles) east of Sirte in the Red Valley region the NTC announced it had captured on Thursday.

Nato said on Friday it had successfully launched an air strike on a warehouse holding two pro-Gaddafi Scud missiles near Bani Walid.

It also carried out a long-range mission on Thursday that fired Storm Shadow missiles at a military vehicle depot near Sabha.

The Interpol arrest warrant for the colonel, Saif al-Islam and Mr Sanussi adds to an International Criminal Court (ICC) warrant for crimes against humanity issued for the three men earlier in the conflict.

The police agency said in a statement the new warrant "would significantly restrict the ability of all three men to cross international borders".

Separately, the Dutch government said it had now received permission from the UN sanctions authorities to unfreeze $2bn (1.4bn euros; £1.25bn) in Libyan assets.

It is the latest in a series of steps to free up seized assets and send money to the NTC.

At the scene

Richard Galpin
BBC News, near Bani Walid

We saw smoke rising from a ridge in front of us, indicating yet another rocket attack by the group of pro-Gaddafi fighters who are still holding out in the town.

The attacks are a sign that Gaddafi loyalists are not prepared to surrender before the deadline to lay down their arms expires.

And at the moment the National Transitional Council says the deadline will not be extended. Its forces have built up their forces in the area and have completely surrounded the town.

Besides heavy weapons, the Gaddafi loyalists are believed to have snipers in the town. But one NTC commander told the BBC he was confident they would seize control quickly.

**harrybarracuda** · 10-09-2011, 06:15 PM

Fighters gear up for 'final Libya battle'

Saturday, 10 September 2011

Libyan fighters prepare to advance on the besieged town of Bani Walid

Volunteer fighters poured in from the Libyan capital and other towns held by the former rebels today to join what they expect to be the final battle for Bani Walid, one of Muammar Gaddafi's last remaining strongholds.

After a week-long stand-off over a peaceful surrender of the town, the Libyan fighters on Friday launched a two-pronged assault on Bani Walid that soon dissolved into street fighting.

Revolutionary forces had initially given tribal leaders and pro-Gaddafi loyalists in Bani Walid until Saturday to surrender, but said they were drawn into fighting on Friday night after former regime fighters attacked with rockets.

Volunteers asking to join the battle said today they were getting increasingly impatient with the stand-off. Dozens crowded around a desk at a mosque in Wishtata, a hamlet about 25 miles from Bani Walid, to register their names, blood type and other information.

Abdel Wahab Milad, a 26-year-old teacher from the town of Gharyan, drove dozens of miles to the front in a pickup truck with six friends. Dressed in army fatigues, he said he signed up for battle because it was time to "get rid of Gaddafi once and for all."

Gaddafi has not been seen in public for several months, and has been a fugitive since the fall of the capital of Tripoli in late August. In audio messages broadcast over a loyalist TV station, Gaddafi has urged his followers to keep fighting.

On Friday, revolutionary forces also battled loyalists near the Gaddafi hometown of Sirte, 250 miles southeast of Tripoli, but withdrew after heavy casualties.

Meanwhile, officials in neighbouring Niger said four senior Libyan military officers have entered the country.

Justice Minister Amadou Morou said late Friday that the Libyan chief of staff of the air force, his pilot and the commanders of two Libyan military regions have arrived in Niger. Morou declined to name the officers.

Morou condemned an attempted attack on the Embassy of Niger in Tripoli on Wednesday night by a group of 20 armed men who tried to force their way in. He said the compound is now being offered protection by Libya's National Transitional Council.

Libya's new rulers had set a Saturday deadline for Gaddafi loyalists in Bani Walid, Sirte, and Sabha, deep in Libya's southern desert - the three key remaining Gaddafi bastions - to surrender or face an offensive.

At the Libyan fighters' checkpoint outside Bani Walid, the spokesman for the revolutionaries, Abu Seif Ghneya, said there was no fighting or casualties overnight but that there would be a final push toward the town centre today.

Before the Friday evening assault on Bani Walid, Gaddafi holdouts inside had fired mortars and rockets toward the fighters' position in a desert dotted with green shrubs and white rocks, killing at least one and wounding several. Loud explosions were heard about six miles from the front line during the day, followed by plumes of black smoke in the already hazy air. Nato planes circled above.

Nato says it is acting under a UN mandate to guarantee the safety of Libya's civilian population. Its bombing campaign has been crucial to the advance of Gaddafi's military opponents.

Also Friday, Interpol said it had issued its top most-wanted alert for the arrest of Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam and the country's ex-chief of military intelligence, Abdullah al-Senoussi. The three are sought by the International Criminal Court for alleged crimes against humanity, and there have been reports Seif al-Islam is in Bani Walid.

**Mr Gribbs** · 10-09-2011, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by OhOh

Way to go.

Take one quiet country, stir up a revolution, bomb the legitimate government back to the hills, let 5 or 6 warring factions take over and distribute arms to anyone with a truck.

Small price to pay to remove a dictator who has been torturing and executing the people under his control for four decades.

Legitimate government? You truly are an arse.

Who did you hear that from, the wealthy Libyan Diaspora who haven't lived in the country in 30+ years? There has been no mass exodus of Libyans to other countries under Gaddafis watch, and why should they? They have the highest standard of living in all of Africa. There also have been millions of people who immigrated to Libya to work, including the greedy fucks from your country. So the place couldn't have been that bad....

**harrybarracuda** · 10-09-2011, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by OhOh

Way to go.

Take one quiet country, stir up a revolution, bomb the legitimate government back to the hills, let 5 or 6 warring factions take over and distribute arms to anyone with a truck.

Small price to pay to remove a dictator who has been torturing and executing the people under his control for four decades.

Legitimate government? You truly are an arse.

Who did you hear that from, the wealthy Libyan Diaspora who haven't lived in the country in 30+ years? There has been no mass exodus of Libyans to other countries under Gaddafis watch, and why should they? They have the highest standard of living in all of Africa. There also have been millions of people who immigrated to Libya to work, including the greedy fucks from your country. So the place couldn't have been that bad....

Not bad at all, as long you didn't dare to question the leadership or the distribution of wealth.

Perhaps the ongoing rebellion has somehow escaped you. I'd suggest turning on the news.

The "crowds" of eager Gadaffi "supporters" appear to have melted away (I say crowd, because with the right camera angle you can make a few hundred look like a lot more).

**Mr Gribbs** · 10-09-2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by OhOh

Way to go.

Take one quiet country, stir up a revolution, bomb the legitimate government back to the hills, let 5 or 6 warring factions take over and distribute arms to anyone with a truck.

Small price to pay to remove a dictator who has been torturing and executing the people under his control for four decades.

Legitimate government? You truly are an arse.

Who did you hear that from, the wealthy Libyan Diaspora who haven't lived in the country in 30+ years? There has been no mass exodus of Libyans to other countries under Gaddafis watch, and why should they? They have the highest standard of living in all of Africa. There also have been millions of people who immigrated to Libya to work, including the greedy fucks from your country. So the place couldn't have been that bad....

Not bad at all, as long you didn't dare to question the leadership or the distribution of wealth.

Perhaps the ongoing rebellion has somehow escaped you. I'd suggest turning on the news.

The "crowds" of eager Gadaffi "supporters" appear to have melted away (I say crowd, because with the right camera angle you can make a few hundred look like a lot more).

The Gadaffi supporters aren't stupid, they aren't going to risk having their balls put in a vice by the Lybian rebels. Go ask the Sub Saharan Africans in Libya if the Lybian rebels are a bunch of nice guys the Western media is making them out to be. Gadaffi did more for his people then any of the so called democracies of SEA.

The rebels in Libya were about to lose the only city they controlled if NATO didn't step in. There are a lot of stupid Lybians buying into NATO's bullshit, but time will prove them wrong.

**OhOh** · 11-09-2011, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

The fact is, more Libyans agree with me than agree with you

If I felt that to be true you may have some grounds, unfortunately I have not seen any evidence to suggest your statement to be true.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Small price to pay to remove a dictator who has been torturing and executing the people under his control for four decades.

Many countries "leaders" have blood on their hands, are you suggesting that they all be taken out by the "democratically" elected posse?

Legitimate government? You truly are an arse.

Yes I have one, have you had yours removed and replaced with a tube and a plastic bag? Legitimate governments are few and far between in the present world.

Originally Posted by Mr Gribbs

The Gadaffi supporters aren't stupid

Much as I find many of his comments in this forum difficult to accept, he does have a point here. Or are you suggesting the losing supporters wave the flags of allegiance to the Libyan Government and be slaughtered by the crusader coalition and the TNC terrorists?

**nostromo** · 11-09-2011, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

crusader coalition

Now for that alone you do deserve a prick of the month award. There are so many fucking words I could use on you you sick arse who has your fucking russian ak47 coming up to your nose. Now I dont believe you fucking matter you fucking pseudo-belgian crap. And shite

Russian belgian shite fuck. Was that clear enough?

**nostromo** · 11-09-2011, 03:30 AM

Russia was about the only country to support Libyan Gaddafi government. I dont know maybe north Korea supported him too.

**OhOh** · 11-09-2011, 04:00 AM

^^Unfortunately not but no matter, I get your drift that you don't hold my views in great esteem.

No problem on my part, don't let it get to you and have another beer.

**nostromo** · 11-09-2011, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

^^Unfortunately not but no matter, I get your drift that you don't hold my views in great esteem.

No problem on my part, don't let it get to you and have another beer.

This is a pub discussion, I am very much OK with you OhOh. But I would rather have a Strongbow Cider.

**OhOh** · 11-09-2011, 06:06 AM

Glad to hear it, watch out for those arrows.

**nostromo** · 11-09-2011, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

Glad to hear it, watch out for those arrows.

I know Phuket is hated now all over, but down there you could get a good British Cider. Fucking world gone mad?

**Butterfly** · 11-09-2011, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by nostromo

Originally Posted by OhOh

crusader coalition

Now for that alone you do deserve a prick of the month award. There are so many fucking words I could use on you you sick arse who has your fucking russian ak47 coming up to your nose. Now I dont believe you fucking matter you fucking pseudo-belgian crap. And shite

Russian belgian shite fuck. Was that clear enough?

nutter alert !!!

**harrybarracuda** · 11-09-2011, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by nostromo

Originally Posted by OhOh

Glad to hear it, watch out for those arrows.

I know Phuket is hated now all over, but down there you could get a good British Cider. Fucking world gone mad?

Imported from Pattaya, where it's still plentiful.

**harrybarracuda** · 11-09-2011, 12:57 PM

I love these morons that go on about what Gaddaffi did "for his people".

Imagine how much better their standard of living would have been if he hadn't been trousering most of the oil revenue.

Idiots.

**Butterfly** · 11-09-2011, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I love these morons that go on about what Gaddaffi did "for his people".

Imagine how much better their standard of living would have been if he hadn't been trousering most of the oil revenue.

Idiots.

I don't know, why don't you ask Saudi Arabia and those other democracies in the Gulf

**harrybarracuda** · 11-09-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I love these morons that go on about what Gaddaffi did "for his people".

Imagine how much better their standard of living would have been if he hadn't been trousering most of the oil revenue.

Idiots.

I don't know, why don't you ask Saudi Arabia and those other democracies in the Gulf

Because they pay my wages, of course.

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