Thread: The Libyan Crisis

Originally Posted by OhOh

He then states that the UK will recognise an unelected terrorist organisation as the Libyan government.

He quotes an imaginary UNSC resolution, which he purports allows him to recognise this unelected terrorist organisation.

He then states that he will unfreeze the assets of the sovereign Libyan Government and hand money to the unelected terrorist organisation.

A truly "civilised" country acting for the benefits of the crusader coalition not the Libyan people.

and we thought the americans had won the prize in stupidity with Iraq, sadly the Europeans have proved again to be superior in that department

Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney

Originally Posted by OhOh

They are attacking civilians, they are terrorists.

Off your trolley again "oooo" more idiotic claptrap!

why don't you just shut the fuck up you fucking idiot, you are fucking worthless here, go wank somewhere else

Originally Posted by OhOh

They are attacking civilians, they are terrorists.

NATO should be attacking all forces which attack, or have the intention of attacking, a civilian populated area. They reportedly are doing this to Libyan government forces but not the TNC terrorist forces.

When an airplane exploded some building, which contained civilians, the US labelled the attackers terrorists. When the IRA attacked pubs, shopping centres etc they were labelled terrorists.

When the Israelis attacked Gaza they were labelled terrorists. When ............

You're doing exactly what all the governments are doing. Whether it's the Americans, Thais, or Libyans. Calling everybody terrorists.

Why not call the Libyan government terrorist?

Or what about the Syrian government? If the Americans finally give the people there some help, will they miraculously turn into terrorists?

Not good, Oh Oh, you're losing credibility.

the rebels are terrorists, whether you like it or not

sometimes they are good terrorists, sometimes they are bad terrorists

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

you're losing credibility

Originally Posted by The Bold Rodney

Originally Posted by OhOh

They are attacking civilians, they are terrorists.

Off your trolley again "oooo" more idiotic claptrap!

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

you're losing credibility

Laughing doesn't help.

Your anti- American slant clouds your vision. It's a pity really.

Top Libyan rebel commander shot dead - Africa, World - The Independent



"Libya's rebel leadership was in turmoil last night following the death of its military chief, who had been arrested on the suspicion of holding secret talks with Muammar Gaddafi's regime.

The National Transitional Council (TNC), the opposition administration based in Benghazi, claimed that Major-General Abdel Fatah Younes had been shot by pro-Gaddafi forces. But this was immediately dismissed by supporters of the commander, who claimed he had been killed by fellow revolutionary fighters.

Gen Younes, who had served as defence and interior minister in the Tripoli regime, was, according to differing accounts, either executed with a shot to the head or died under torture while being interrogated. A number of his relations and associates were also reported to have been detained.

Last night, roadblocks were being set up in Benghazi after units loyal to Gen Younes were reported to have left the front line at the port of Brega and entered the opposition capital. The roads to the commander's home were sealed off by the Shabaab, volunteer militia fighters formed after the uprising. Later in the evening, gunmen burst into a hall where the head of the TNC, Mustafa Abdul Jalil, a former justice minister under Col Gaddafi, had announced Gen Younes's death, and sprayed the room with rifle fire.

The death of Gen Younes came just a day after the British Government recognised the TNC as the sole representatives of the Libyan state and ordered regime diplomats to leave the UK. Members of the opposition took over the Libyan embassy and consulate in London and called for the unfreezing of billions of pounds in frozen Libyan funds being held abroad.

Gen Younes had been recalled from Brega by the TNC to answer allegations that he had visited Tripoli to meet Gaddafi ministers and that members of his family had remained close to the regime.

Mr Jalil announced Gen Younes's death three hours after he was said to have arrived in Benghazi, but refused to discuss the circumstances under which this had taken place. However, in a later statement the TNC head insisted that the general had been assassinated by pro-Gaddafi agents.

Gen Younes had defected to the opposition soon after the 17 February uprising and his arrival was hailed as a coup by the rebels. He appointed himself the head of the rebel's military force. But Khalifa Haftar, a former army officer, also claimed to be the armed forces' supremo and the two men clashed repeatedly and created parallel chains of command.

There had been reports last Sunday that Gen Younes had died in fighting around Brega. He gave a radio interview the following day to announce he was alive and well and declare that the rebels would achieve victory before the impending start of Ramadan. TNC officials claimed afterwards that someone was impersonating Gen Younes, who was indeed under arrest.

Two aides to Gen Younes, Col Muhammad Khamis and Nasir al-Madhkur, who had been arrested with him, were also killed in the attack, Mr Jalil said."

Seems the UK, and others, backed terrorist forces have a few problems with them selves. So much for this stable, authoritative government in waiting as described by the UK prime minister and foreign secretary.

Other news sources are blaming the TNC terrorists, others the CIA.

looks like everything is going according to plan

Rebel feud puts UK's Libya policy in jeopardy - Africa, World - The Independent

"Rebel feud puts UK's Libya policy in jeopardy
Government demands answers after assassination of general

By Kim Sengupta, Defence Correspondent
Saturday, 30 July 2011

The credibility of the British-backed rebel forces in Libya has been thrown into doubt after the shock assassination of a top military commander led to claims that the movement is enmeshed in a bloody internal feud.

Increasing evidence has begun to emerge that the savage killings of General Abdel Fatah Younes and two other senior officers – who were shot and whose bodies were burnt – may have been carried out by their own side.

The news of the deaths led to outbreaks of violence in the opposition capital, Benghazi, yesterday, with troops loyal to the General and members of the large and powerful tribe to which he belonged, the Obeidis, vowing retribution.

The killings came at a difficult time for David Cameron's government, which just a day earlier had formally recognised the rebel Transitional National Council (TNC) as the representatives of the Libyan state and ordered diplomats of the Tripoli regime to leave the UK. In a speech offering unreserved praise, the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had praised the rebels' "increasing legitimacy, competence and success." Major Younes is believed to have been under arrest on the orders of the chairman of the TNC, Mustafa Abdul Jalil – a former justice minister under Col Gaddafi – at the time of his death on Thursday evening. Yesterday, as the circumstances surrounding the killing remained hazy, Alistair Burt, a Foreign Office Minister, spoke to Mr Jalil.

"Exactly what happened remains unclear," he said. "I welcome chairman Jalil's statement yesterday that the killing will be thoroughly investigated, and he reiterated this to me during our conversation. We agreed that it is important that those responsible are held to account through proper judicial processes."

Analysts said that it was likely that whoever carried out the assassination was on the rebel side. Fawaz Gerges, director of the Middle East Centre at the London School of Economics, said that "given the infighting among the rebels, probably some elements that are opposed to him did it". He added that whoever was responsible, it was "a major blow to the credibility of the rebels... Paris or London or Washington are probably extremely anxious about this turn of events."

Oliver Miles, a former British ambassador to Tripoli, said that "the most straightforward explanation was that Gaddafi forces had killed Gen Younes – but that did not make it the most likely explanation. He had a lot of enemies. It could be personal; it could be factional within the TNC."

Gen Younes, who had himself served as interior minister in the regime, had been accused of holding secret talks with Tripoli officials and leaking military secrets. The news of his arrest led to men from the Obeidi tribe gathering outside the Tibesti Hotel on Thursday evening, where the rebels were due to hold a press conference, threatening to take action to free the commander unless he was released. Two hours later, in a convoluted statement, Mr Jalil held that Gen Younes had merely been "summoned" for questioning and been released on his own recognisance before being killed in an attack by an "armed gang". Rebel security forces, he maintained, were still trying to find the bodies, but the TNC leader refused to answer questions on how, in that case, he could know that the men were already dead.

Soon after Mr Jalil had left an armed group from the Obeidi tribe opened fire at the hotel with semi-automatic rifles.

Yesterday, at the funeral of Gen Younes, his relations pledged support for the revolution. But units loyal to the commander were said to have left the front line to travel to Benghazi to find out who was responsible for the killings. Inside the city the rebels' 17 Brigade, which pledges allegiance to Mr Jalil and his coterie at the TNC, set up roadblocks.

Meanwhile Mr Jalil's version of events was contradicted by the TNC's military spokesman, Mohammed al-Rijali, who stated that Gen Younes had been detained at the oil port of Brega and brought to Benghazi for interrogation prior to his death. A third rebel official, a senior security officer, Fadlallah Haroun, maintained that three corpses had already been found before Mr Jalil had made his announcement. He could not explain why the TNC leader had failed to mention this at the press conference."

Similar to telegraph report. The difference is the emphasis is on internal strife between TNC terrorist organisation.

"the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had praised the rebels' "increasing legitimacy, competence and success."

Will two hats willy now resign for his decision to praise and support this terrorist TNC rabble?

"an armed group from the Obeidi tribe opened fire at the hotel with semi-automatic rifles"

Will NATO start attacking the TNC terrorist rabble for attacking a civilian populated area as demanded by the UNSC resolution?

"I welcome chairman Jalil's statement yesterday that the killing will be thoroughly investigated"

Will the "investigation" be reporting before the UK investigation into political/police/media corruption reports that is envisaged to last a year?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

looks like everything is going according to plan

Quagmire, is a better way to describe the plan.

the internal fighting will get worse when the billions are going to be in their pocket

it's fucking madness, even the Americans couldn't fuck this up so badly

typical British and French fucked up MO, and we wonder how they lost all their colonies

let's make no mistake about it, the situation on the ground is simply a coup d'etat financed by western powers

like it was in Iraq, an illegal coup d'etat

Really is turning into a royal fuck up now. Ramadhan starts tomorrow, not a good time to be bombing.

News from The Associated Press



"BENGHAZI, Libya (AP) -- Libyan rebel leaders said Sunday their forces hunted down and clashed with supporters of Moammar Gadhafi who had been posing as rebel fighters to infiltrate the opposition's eastern stronghold. The overnight battle killed four from each side and added to a sense of crisis within the rebel movement.

Libya's shaken rebels are trying to rid their ranks of enemies after the assassination last week of their military chief, Abdel-Fattah Younis. The leadership insists the slaying was the work of Gadhafi's regime, but several witnesses have said Younis was killed by fellow rebels.

As officials pieced together events leading up to Sunday's gunbattle, they announced that a faction of fighters called al-Nidaa was actually made up of Gadhafi loyalists posing as rebels. The revelation could raise questions about the loyalty of other rebel factions and sap the movement of much-needed unity in its push to topple Gadhafi nearly six months after the revolt began.

Suspicions about al-Nidaa were confirmed, a rebel security leader said, when intelligence officials determined the group was behind two prison breaks on Friday in the rebels' de facto capital of Benghazi. The prison breaks freed 200 to 300 inmates, including pro-Gadhafi mercenaries, fighters and other regime loyalists.

"These people took advantage of the chaos that resulted from the killing of Younis and entered and attacked the military prison and the (civilian) Kuwaitiya prison," said the rebel's deputy interior minister, Mustafa al-Sagezli.

On Sunday before dawn, rebel forces tracked al-Nidaa members to a factory where they were hiding out and sent in negotiators to try to persuade them to surrender. When they refused, the rebel units besieged the factory, killing four of the rebels, said rebel Information Minister Mahmoud Shammam.

A battlefield commander who participated in the operation, Ismail Salabi, said four of those posing as rebels were also killed and 25 were captured. He described them as Libyans from the southern part of the country who belonged to the Gadhafi Brigades.

"This is a hard hit for the fifth column," he said.

Rebel forces also seized 40 of the freed prisoners, who were found hiding out with the fighters.

Talk of a fifth column - a group secretly sympathetic to the enemy - adds to the disarray that was set off with Thursday's killing of the chief rebel commander, Younis, in still mysterious circumstances. The leadership says authorities had arrested him on suspicion of mismanaging forces under his command and that gunmen attacked while he was being transported from one location to another under heavy guard.

NATO airstrikes struck three Libyan state television satellite transmitters in Tripoli on Saturday. The head of Libyan state TV's English-language section told reporters that three state television journalists were killed and 15 other people were wounded.

"We are aware of the allegations related to this subject," a spokesman at NATO's operational headquarters in Naples said Sunday. "We cannot confirm them since we have nobody on the ground there."

The NATO official could not be identified in line with standing restrictions. He noted that the Libyan government had on several past occasions claimed that NATO airstrikes had killed civilians, but that most of these proved to be false."

Seems to be fighting in Benghazi.

Nato accused of killing family in botched bombing raid - Telegraph



"The alleged strike on a two-storey home in the suburbs of the town of Zlitan, 160 miles east of Tripoli, killed the wife and two children of Mustafa Naji, a physics teacher and sparked an eruption of local anger against the bombing campaign.
The regime of Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi seized on the attack to press claims innocent locals[civilians] have been killed by Nato's bombs.
Nato's efforts to assist advances by rebels from central Misurata have embroiled the alliance in an urban war for control of Zlitan. Bombed schools and flattened food warehouses are now in evidence in the town and they are being used by Gaddafi loyalists as staging grounds for continued attacks on the rebel enclave.
Despite the use of fixed wing aircraft [, naval bombardment] and helicopter gunships and despite rebel claims that the town had fallen earlier this week, fighting raged yesterday on Zlitan's eastern fringes. A handful of loud explosions were accompanied by the whine of jet engines on Nato aircraft.
The Naji home stood ten miles from the front line in the apparently quiet suburb of Kaim. Regime officials said the family were ordinary people who had feasted just hours before to celebrate the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

Its concrete floors had collapsed and the rooms were destroyed. By midmorning it was impossible to tell if the building had ever been used by Gaddafi's military unlike the nearby Law College and school where the bombed buildings were littered with military paraphernalia including combat fatigues and log books.
Ibtisam, the mother of two children, Mohammad 5 and Muttasim, 3, were buried within hours at an emotional funeral ceremony next to a local mosque.
"These people were not fighters, there is no military in this neighbourhood," said Ali Adil, a lawyer and neighbour. "Nato say they are protecting civilians but they are turning their weapons on us. The UN Security Council should investigate this." A nephew pulled off the funerary shrouds to reveal the bloodied faces of the dead.
"Those that are fighting with Nato are traitors against their country," said Mohammad Ali Berber, a cousin of the victim. "We should volunteer to go to the front line and finish it. We will never forgive." Nato bore the brunt of the blame for the attack.
Mr Adil said that he had seen helicopters in action attacking areas where there were no soldiers deployed. "It's an unfair war using this technology against us."
A Nato spokesman said the organisation had struck a target at 6.30am in Zlitan and that it was investigating the allegations of civilian casualties.
The UN Security Council resolution authorising the Nato campaign to use military air power to stop Col Gaddafi's regime killing his own people to crush a nationwide uprising.
Moussa Ibrahim, the Gaddafi regime spokesman, said the attack on Zlitan was one of many Nato atrocities. "Yet another crime of Nato against Libyan civilians has taken place," he said. "No one is safe from Nato." Despite Misurata rebels claims that they had taken the centre of Zlitan there has not yet been heavy downtown fighting.
But as the fighting has encroached, locals have fled elsewhere. Apartment blocks along the main boulevard, Sahili Rd, are deserted. Only a handful of shops remain open.
However the main impediment to the fall of the town is the hatred of local tribes towards Misuratans. The proximity of the two towns belies a deep-rooted antipathy.
Many local families are the descendants of slaves captured by the pirates that operated from Misurata in the 19th century.
"I have no friends or acquaintances from Misurata, I know nobody from there," said Khalifa Misha, a schools inspector. "They have no right to come here. We will resist this conquest until the last drop of blood."

The terrorists have now forced the presidents son into looking for a deal with the Islamists.

Cherchez la femme...

After months of branding the entire opposition as radical extremists, the veteran leader's son Seif al-Islam of a pact with Ali Sallabi, a leading Islamic cleric in the rebel-held east.

NATO planes bomb Tripoli, rebels sabotage pipeline, news, StarAfrica.com

Thank God the president has a devoted son who has his nation at heart.

And now we know why the CIA is behind all this! They foresaw that the president would be forced to work with the Islamists to defeat the terrorists!

what a wonderful clusterfuck

Originally Posted by Pol the Pot

The terrorists have now forced the presidents son into looking for a deal with the Islamists.

Cherchez la femme...

After months of branding the entire opposition as radical extremists, the veteran leader's son Seif al-Islam of a pact with Ali Sallabi, a leading Islamic cleric in the rebel-held east.

NATO planes bomb Tripoli, rebels sabotage pipeline, news, StarAfrica.com



Thank God the president has a devoted son who has his nation at heart.

And now we know why the CIA is behind all this! They foresaw that the president would be forced to work with the Islamists to defeat the terrorists!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/wo...ca/04seif.html

The source of the interview.

"On one level, Mr. Qaddafi’s avowed embrace of the Islamists represents a sharp personal reversal for a man who had long styled himself as a cosmopolitan, Anglophile advocate of Western-style liberal democracy. He continues to refer to the Islamists as “terrorists” and “bloody men,” and says, “We don’t trust them, but we have to deal with them.”

But it may also be simply a twist on an old theme, a new version of the Qaddafi argument that by assisting the rebels the Western intervention could usher in a radical Islamist takeover. In a further taunt to the West, he suggested that the Qaddafis would even help the Islamists stamp out the liberals.

“You want us to make a compromise. O.K. You want us to share the pot. O.K., But with who?” he said in imagined dialogue with the Western powers. The Islamists, he said, answering his own questions, “are the real force on the ground.”

“Everybody is taking off the mask, and now you have to face the reality,” he said. “I know they are terrorists. They are bloody. They are not nice. But you have to accept them.” He seemed to enjoy repeating the notion that Western capitals would be forced to welcome the ambassadors or defense minister of a new Islamist Libya."

The Muslim tradition is to move on from disputes and work out a deal. At least the Libyan Government is trying to stop this murderous illegal war. Something you cant say for the crusader coalition.

Libya rebels say they are advancing on Brega | Reuters

"(Reuters) - Libyan rebels Saturday said they had launched a push to capture the coastal oil town of Brega, but were advancing slowly because Muammar Gaddafi's forces had sown minefields across its approaches.

"There's a big movement on all fronts around Brega. We are attacking from three sides," said spokesman Mohammad Zawawi.

Fighting on the eastern front of the civil war, which has moved backwards and forwards for the past months, has been bogged down for weeks on the fringes of Brega, about 750 kilometres (465 miles) east of Tripoli.

Zawawi said rebel forces were in sight of a residential area of Brega and believed they could take the town, which is south of the rebel capital Benghazi on the eastern side of the Gulf of Sirte.

"It could be very soon, but we don't want to lose anybody so we're moving slowly but surely," he said.

In Misrata, a Qatari plane made a quick stop to offload ammunition destined for rebel fighters, sources with knowledge of the flight said. Airport officials acknowledged a Qatari plane had landed but declined to reveal details of its contents.

"The plane offloaded six pickup trucks which were packed with ammunition, and minutes later it flew off again," said one source, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Rebels have complained about a lack of weapons and ammunition to effectively push forward to the capital. France has also supplied ammunition and weapons in air-drops."

Attacking civilian populated areas, supplying arms to any Libyan force, breaking of the no fly zone.

The coalition crusaders are somewhat ignoring the UNSC resolution.

Qatar has been one of staunchest supporters of Libyans seeking to topple Muammar Gaddafi from power.

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"BENGHAZI, Libya (Reuters) - Libyan rebels say the gunmen who shot dead their military chief were militiamen allied in their struggle to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi, raising questions about divisions and lawlessness within rebel ranks.

The assassination of Abdel Fattah Younes, apparently by his own side, has hurt the opposition just as it was winning broader international recognition and launching an offensive against Gaddafi's forces in the Western Mountains.

After 24 hours of confusion, rebel minister Ali Tarhouni said Younes had been killed by fighters who were sent to fetch him from the front and his bullet-riddled and partially burned body was found at a ranch near the rebel capital of Benghazi.

Tarhouni said late on Friday a militiaman had been arrested and confessed that his subordinates had carried out the killing.

Younes had been part of Gaddafi's inner circle since the 1969 coup that brought the Libyan colonel to power and was interior minister before defecting to the rebels in February.

Many rebels had been uncomfortable working under a man who had been so close to Gaddafi for 41 years, and rebel sources said on Thursday Younes had been recalled over suspicions he or his family were secretly in contact with the Libyan leader.

Rebels were divided over who had killed Younes, some suspecting his execution was ordered by rebel leaders for treason, many believing he was killed by Gaddafi supporters who had infiltrated rebel ranks, and still others suggesting a rebel splinter group had acted alone.

Gaddafi's government pointed the finger at Fawzi Bu Kitf, head of the Union of Revolutionary Forces, a federation of armed rebel groups operating in the east of the country.

In an apparent effort to distance himself from the killing, Bu Kitf on Saturday named the key suspect as Mustafa al-Rubh, the field commander who had been dispatched to arrest Younes.

"He is a member of the Union as an individual," Bu Kitf told reporters. "Whatever was done was done through his own idea."

Whatever the truth, the killing deepens concerns among the rebels' Western backers, keen to see them prevail in a five-month-old civil war but frustrated by their lack of unity and nervous about the influence of Islamists.

The United States, which like some 30 other nations has formally recognised the opposition, called for solidarity.

"What's important is that they work both diligently and transparently to ensure the unity of the Libyan opposition," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said in Washington.

REBELS TARGET GADDAFI STRONGHOLD

Rebels who rose up against Gaddafi in February have seized swathes of the country but remain poorly equipped and are still far from ousting him, despite support from NATO airstrikes.

Rebels said on Saturday they had encircled Gaddafi's last stronghold in the Western Mountains and hoped to seize it soon.

Rebel tanks fired at Tiji, where some 500 government troops are stationed.

"We have Tiji surrounded and we hope to take it by the end of the day," rebel commander Nasir al-Hamdi, a former police colonel, told Reuters as gunfire crackled in the distance.

Rebels also made a new push on the front just west of the rebel-held city of Misrata. Hospital sources said 12 rebels were killed and 60 wounded in fighting that rebels said took them to the edge of Zlitan, the largest city between Misrata and the capital Tripoli to the west.

"Most of the casualties today were from GRAD missiles and mortar fire. We have advanced well and God willing we will be in Zlitan soon," said Ibrhaim Buwathi, 24.

NATO strikes also continued in western Libya overnight. NATO said early on Saturday it had bombed three satellite dishes in Tripoli to stop "terror broadcasts" by Gaddafi, but Libyan state TV remained on air and condemned what it said was the targeting of journalists.

As Libya's civil war grinds on into Ramadan with no end in sight, Libyans on both sides of the conflict say shortages, high prices, rising summer temperatures and worry about loved ones fighting on distant fronts could mar the Muslim fasting month.

"Ramadan will be very tough for us. We're already struggling now. The weather will be very hot and we won't have the energy to fight while we are fasting," said Abdelbadr Adel, 19, a rebel fighting in the Western Mountains.

LIBYA'S WILD EAST

In the east, confusion reigned over who had killed Younes.

Rebel fighters said members of the February 17 Martyrs' Brigade, a rebel group that is part of the Union of Revolutionary Forces, had collected Younes from the frontline near Brega on Thursday.

However, Tarhouni, the rebel minister, said it was another militia, the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade, who had killed Younes.

Locals said the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade mainly comprised former prisoners of Gaddafi's notorious Abu Salim prison in the capital Tripoli, who had always distrusted Younes. Obaid Ibn Jarrah Brigade was not a member of the Union, which is employed by the Transitional National Council for security.

Named after one of the companions of Islam's Prophet Mohammad, the group is likely to have Islamist leanings.

One rebel commander, who asked not to be named, said Islamists whom Younes had targeted as interior minister may have killed him in retaliation.

"Some of those Islamists are now fighting with the rebels and they have always refused to fight under Younes's command and have always viewed him with suspicion," he said.

"I don't think the investigation will lead anywhere. They don't dare to touch the Islamists."

Further complicating an already murky situation, some Libyans said they feared that Younes' death would trigger a bloody tribal feud. But in an apparent effort to calm nerves, a rebel source said Younes could be replaced by Suleiman Mahmoud al-Obeidi, a member of the same tribe.

The longer the war drags on, the further eastern Libya appears to slip into lawlessness, raising questions about what kind of Libya could emerge if Gaddafi goes.

Tarhouni told reporters on Friday night a gang had attacked a prison using rocket-propelled grenades, helping about 300 former Gaddafi soldiers and loyalists to escape."