The Libyan Crisis

**SteveCM** · 20-03-2011, 02:52 AM

Useful analysis of hardware & base resources available to pro- and anti-Gadaffi forces: International Institute for Strategic Studies IISS Voices

**CaptainNemo** · 20-03-2011, 04:04 AM

UK missiles fired at Libyan targets
(UKPA) – 14 minutes ago
A British submarine has fired Tomahawk cruise missiles on Libyan air defence targets as Prime Minister David Cameron sent UK armed forces into action against dictator Muammar Gaddafi.
The launch of UK operations was announced by Mr Cameron outside 10 Downing Street after he chaired a meeting of the Government's Cobra emergency committee.
Hailing the military action as "necessary, legal and right", the Prime Minister said: "We should not stand aside while this dictator murders his own people".
The Ministry of Defence said that the Trafalgar-class sub had fired a number of land-attack missiles.
Meanwhile, the US confirmed that it had fired four missiles in what the Pentagon said was a "carefully co-ordinated" joint operation with the UK, France, Spain and Canada known as Odyssey Dawn. More than 20 air defence systems on or near the coast had been struck, said a Pentagon spokesman.
Some 110 Tomahawk missiles were used in the attack on air-defence systems, which is the first stage of the allied operation, designed to suppress and degrade radar systems and surface-to-air missile sites in order to secure control of the airspace and reduce the threat to planes.
The UK submarine is understood to have been stationed in the Mediterranean for some time without being detected.
Mr Cameron said his thoughts were with British service personnel who were risking their lives to save others, and he added: "I believe we should all be confident that what we are doing is in a just cause and in our nation's interest."
Earlier, around 20 French Mirage and Rafale fighter planes went into action over the rebel stronghold of Benghazi, which had been subjected to intense bombardment by Gaddafi loyalists despite a ceasefire announced on Friday. The French fired the first shots of the operation, destroying tanks and armoured vehicles being used by forces loyal to Gaddafi.
Military action was launched following an emergency summit in Paris, at which 19 nations - including a number of Arab states - agreed that Gaddafi had flouted the terms of Thursday's United Nations resolution demanding an immediate end to violence and authorising "any necessary measure" short of foreign occupation.
Copyright © 2011 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...1300565011701A

(CBS/AP) Last Updated 4:24 p.m. ET
The U.S. has launched cruise missiles against Libyan air defenses as part of the international military effort against Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi.

CBS News national security correspondent David Martin confirms that the Pentagon launched 50-100 cruise missiles around 2 p.m. ET Saturday, following the French fighter jets' sorties over Benghazi.

President Barack Obama said it was not an outcome that the U.S. or its allies sought, but that Qaddafi has ignored the will of the international community to refrain from waging violence against his own people.

"The danger faced by the people of Libya has grown," Mr. Obama said in a statement from Brasilia in Brazil.

"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people that there will be no mercy and his forces step up their assaults on cities like Benghazi and Misrata where innocent men and women face brutality and death at the hands of their own government."

A senior military official has told CBS News that the U.S. will be on the "leading edge" of coalition efforts to enforce the U.N. resolution.

The operation, dubbed "Odyssey Dawn," has two goals: prevent further attacks on civilians by Qaddafi's forces, and develop the ability to establish a no-fly zone by going after Qaddafi's integrated air defenses.

U.S. fires cruise missiles on Libyan air defenses - CBS News

Now we're Tomahawkin'.

**blue** · 20-03-2011, 04:20 AM

yes what next?
let me guess - some civilian target gets hit by western forces ,and a plane crashes or something

**OhOh** · 20-03-2011, 06:27 AM

Mass civilian casualties/collateral damage but hey it's never stopped them in the past. The resolutions aimed at stopping civilian causalities.

**Boon Mee** · 20-03-2011, 06:59 AM

So where's all them commie, left-wing, hippie War Protesters now, eh?

MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...

**Rural Surin** · 20-03-2011, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

So where's all them commie, left-wing, hippie War Protesters now, eh?

MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...

Less you forget BM, these boys come from the same club.

**Boon Mee** · 20-03-2011, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

So where's all them commie, left-wing, hippie War Protesters now, eh?

MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...

Less you forget BM, these boys come from the same club.

I hadn't forgotten...just pointing out the hypocrisy on the part of Leftards who railed against Dubya. Where's the hue & cry now?

**foreigner** · 20-03-2011, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

As with most African countries, they'd be better off with the country broken up into smaller more homogenous units...

Better off being a British colony as history has proven.

LOL!
the british success in helping the third world heathens achieve their best is a short list.

Burma & Bangladesh continue to reap the rewards of the UKs benevolent imperialism.

Pakistan & India continue to thank "Lawd Mount-blotin" for the Kashmire wisdom,
Afghanistan continues to benefit from the genius of the UK

The genius to combine the 3 Mesopotamian states into 1 country pure genius (Sunni, Shiite & Kurds were 3 separate states.)
0h & Kuwait was part of the now Iraq under Mesopotamia.

now .. do we want to discuss the British Mandate or the Brits throwing in the town after the King David was bombed by the Zionist before WWII?

Probably several posters would disagree on your imperial view point concerning the Gaelic people.

One must agree the British Empire spread the glory of Gawd .. & the Queens. (what is the deal with that dopey inbred royal family?)

I find your post as imperially arrogant as is conceivably possible.

can you help me with a single area of 21st century terror / insurrection (except LOS) that was not subjected to imperialism in the early to mid 20th century?

Preah Vihear is a direct result of french 'water shed imperialism' .. like the entire mississippi valley the imperial frogs claimed the water shed.

IMHO: defending the brutal thieving imperiarl colonialist is not far removed from defending old (or young) men butt plugging little boys .. in HIND sight, for their imperial good I'm sure

10,000,000 posts to 12 or less posts .. by post count i'm definitely wrong

**foreigner** · 20-03-2011, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

So where's all them commie, left-wing, hippie War Protesters now, eh?

MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...

Less you forget BM, these boys come from the same club.

I hadn't forgotten...just pointing out the hypocrisy on the part of Leftards who railed against Dubya. Where's the hue & cry now?

barry was definitely forced into this .. resisted as long & hard as he could.

Bush went the Oval Office with an agenda to oust Sodomy Insane .. Iraq was targeted out of personal agenda before any agressions were trumped up.
& "all" the alleged aggressions were BS / AKA murderous lies!
the Iraq invasion was based on manufactured lies
the day after 9-11 he had rummy planning an iraq invasion.

I love barry's SE Asian smile!

I understand Libya makes Afghanistan look like a stable society
I hope we don't try to build a "society in our image"

republicans are a hoot

long live freedom fries.

side note:
Gaddafi kills civilians & it's a war crime
the US kills civilians & it's collateral damage..

**Mid** · 20-03-2011, 08:00 AM

Enter the drone: Gaddafi has reason to be afraid
Crispin Black
MARCH 19, 2011

Crispin Black: One mistake and Gaddafi could be taken out by a missile ‘fired’ from the Nevada desert

It may not be over by Christmas but it should, with luck, be different this time. Here's why. There is one crucial ace in the pack that Slobodan Milosevic and Saddam Hussein, the previous targets of no-fly zones, did not have to face on any large scale [at] Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles: in plain language, hunter killer drones.

The United States fields two types [at] the smaller and lighter Predator and the truly awesome Reaper with a 66ft wingspan and a payload of 14 Hellfire missiles or laser-guided bombs. It can stay in the air for 14 hours at a stretch.

It¹s about half the size of a Second World War Lancaster but its smart weapons pack several times the punch. To carry out the Dambusters raid in 1943, Wing Commander Guy Gibson would have needed only three of these extraordinary machines.

The drones are flown remotely, usually from Creech Air Force base a few miles outside Las Vegas. The 'pilots' who control them have been honing their skills with strikes in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

It¹s not just the technical specs that are impressive. These machines are the cutting edge of a whole intelligence system [at] think flying iPod or Kindle. Backing them up them are a battery of intelligence-gathering sensors across the world that Bletchley Park could only dream of.

It¹s not yet clear what part the RAF will play in enforcing UN Resolution 1973 - though there are early reports from Italy of British planes being armed with missiles - but GCHQ's listening stations in Cyprus and Gibraltar will be invaluable.

The combination of near real-time target intelligence and Reaper's 14-hour 'loiter time' means that there is a good chance of killing Gaddafi himself and/or his sons early in the campaign [at] if President Obama wants to.
In 1987, Gaddafi managed to hide in the desert from Ronald Reagan's warplanes. But this time it's going to be much more difficult to avoid detection by state-of-the-art allied intelligence systems.

If he gives himself away - the modern equivalent of a cigarette lit by a weary sailor on an Atlantic convoy with a U-Boat in pursuit - and if there is a Predator within 100 miles, it can attack within minutes. No take-off required. No briefing. No pre-mission bacon and eggs for the crews [at] it just attacks. The pilot from his armchair in the Nevada desert can guide a missile or a 500lb bomb through a tent flap in the Libyan desert.

One note of caution, though. Gaddafi will do everything he can to frustrate the no-fly regime. His bogus ceasefire - witness this morning's reported bombardment of Benghazi - is just the beginning of the procedural wrangles. Expect also some gruesome improvisation designed to weaken the allies' resolve.

Father and sons have the taunting and cunning mindset of serial killers and they seem to enjoy it. Human shields, hostages and some stuff we haven't yet thought of: you name it they will try it. They have already threatened to bring down civilian airliners (again).

But there are signs that Gaddafi's inner circle is feeling the pressure. His radio broadcast on Thursday night promising 'no mercy' for the people of Benghazi will rank as one of the great 'own goals' of the season.

Just as the UN Security Council was dithering into its second day of negotiations, his ravings were so bloodcurdling that even the Chinese Communist Party, perpetrators of the Tiananmen Square massacre, thought it over the top, withholding their veto.

Effective cunning needs sound judgment. Despite at least one PhD between them, it looks as though the Gaddafi family have lost the plot.

thefirstpost.co.uk

**CaptainNemo** · 20-03-2011, 08:44 AM

I'm paraphrasing, I know, but, this seemed to be the essence of what you were saying:

Originally Posted by foreigner

I ... is a ... dopey inbred ... can you help me with ... brutal .... butt plugging little boys .. i'm definitely wrong

You seem to have conveniently omitted the decades of cold-war geopolitical chess played by the USA and USSR, which transformed stable developing colonies into bloodbath hell holes riven with persistent civil wars and avaricious torturing dictators.

It is "brutal thieving" American imperialism that has been the scourge of much of the world. It's certainly gone downhill since it stopped being a colony - the very fact of your inbred bucktoothed banjo-tugging existence rather demonstrates that.

**StrontiumDog** · 20-03-2011, 09:11 AM

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/a...236603156.html

International forces bombard targets in Libya

Coalition forces launch Libya assault, which Gaddafi calls "colonial, crusader" aggression.

Last Modified: 20 Mar 2011 01:26

International forces fired more than 110 missiles on 20 radar and anti-aircraft sites along the coast [AFP/US Navy]

United States and European military forces have bombarded Libya with cruise missiles and airstrikes as part of a broad international effort to enforce a UN-mandated no-fly zone.

French planes fired the first shots on Saturday in the biggest international military intervention in the Arab world since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, destroying tanks and armoured vehicles in eastern Libya.

Hours later, US and British warships and submarines launched more than 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles at more than 20 coastal targets to clear the way for air patrols to ground Libya's air force.

An unnamed US national security official said the air defences in the oil-producing North African country have been "severely crippled" by the barrage of missile strikes.

"Gaddafi's air defence systems have been severely disabled. It's too soon to predict what he and his ground forces may do in response to today's strikes," the military source said on condition of anonymity.

Libyan state television later said civilian areas of Tripoli and fuel storage tanks that supplied Misurata had been hit.

In Tripoli residents said they had heard an explosion near eastern Tajoura district, while in Misurata they said strikes had targeted an airbase where Gaddafi's forces were based.

Several thousands gathered at the Bab al-Aziziyah palace, Gaddafi's compound in the capital that was bombed by US warplanes in 1986, to show their support.

Defiant Gaddafi

In response, Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, vowed to arm civilians to defend the country from what he called "colonial, crusader" aggression by western forces against him.

"It is now necessary to open the stores and arm all the masses with all types of weapons to defend the independence, unity and honour of Libya"
Muammar Gaddafi, Libya leader

"It is now necessary to open the stores and arm all the masses with all types of weapons to defend the independence, unity and honour of Libya," Gaddafi said in an audio message broadcast on state television hours after the strikes began.

He said Libya would exercise its right to self defence under article 51 of the United Nations charter, adding the Mediterranean and North Africa were now a battleground.

"The interests of countries face danger from now on in the Mediterranean because of this aggressive and mad behaviour," he said.

"Unfortunately, due to this (action), marine and air targets, whether military or civilian, will be exposed to real danger in the Mediterranean, since the area of the Mediterranean and North Africa has become a battleground because of this blatant military agression."

He also called on Arab, Islamic, African, Latin American and Asian countries to "stand by the heroic Libyan people to confront this aggression, which will only increase the Libyan people's strength, firmness and unity".

Shortly after Gaddafi's speech, a message on state television said Libya had decided to end its efforts to stop illegal immigration to Europe, citing a security source.

'Not first choice'

Barack Obama, the US president, said military action was not his first choice.

"This is not an outcome the US or any of our partners sought," Obama said from Brazil, where he is starting a five-day visit to Latin America.

"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy."

"Today I authorised the armed forces of the United States to begin a limited action in Libya in support of an international effort to protect Libyan civilians," Obama told reporters in Brasilia.

He said US troops were acting in support of allies, who would lead the enforcement of a no-fly zone to stop Gaddafi's attacks on rebels.

"As I said yesterday, we will not, I repeat, we will not deploy any US troops on the ground," Obama said.

Vice Admiral Bill Gortney, director of the US military's Joint Staff, said the missile strikes were only the first phase of a multi-phase action.

Gaddafi to blame

He said Libya would exercise its right to self defence under article 51 of the UN charter, adding that theMediterranean and North Africa were now a battleground.

"The interests of countries face danger from now on in the Mediterranean because of this aggressive and mad behavior.

Thousands of Gaddafi supporters form a human shield outside the heavily-fortified al-Aziziya camp [Reuters]

Operation Odyssey Dawn, as the the allied assault has been dubbed, followed an emergency summit in Paris of Western and Arab leaders backing the military intervention.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said after the meeting that participants agreed to use "all necessary means, especially military" to enforce a UN Security Council calling for an end to attacks on civilians.

"Colonel Gaddafi has made this happen," British Prime Minister David Cameron told reporters after the meeting. "We cannot allow the slaughter of civilians to continue."

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper suggested that outside powers hoped their intervention would be enough to turn the tide against Gaddafi and allow Libyans to force him out.

"It is our belief that if Mr. Gaddafi loses the capacity to enforce his will through vastly superior armed forces, he simply will not be able to sustain his grip on the country."

**Butterfly** · 20-03-2011, 09:12 AM

Libya might descent into civil war hell, and that's not good for oil and our economic recovery, above all when there is no guarantee that the Libyan people will get a better deal with the new western backed owner

**Humbert** · 20-03-2011, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

stable developing colonies

Whose colonies?

**taxexile** · 20-03-2011, 09:17 AM

lets hope they send a drone to target the lockerbie bomber and his rancid prostate.

**socal** · 20-03-2011, 09:24 AM

From the AP: "Top officials from the United States, Europe and the Arab world have announced immediate military action to protect civilians amid combat between Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's forces and rebel fighters. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said after an emergency summit in Paris on Saturday that France has already taken military action against Libya. Sarkozy said "our determination is total." Earlier Saturday, Libyan government troops forces stormed into the rebel capital of Benghazi, apparently ignoring a proclaimed cease-fire and potentially complicating any allied military action."

Several French Rafale fighter jets on Saturday overflew "all Libyan territory" on reconnaissance mission, ready to enforce an air-exclusion zone to halt Muammar Qaddafi’s attacks on opposition, a French military source said, as Western leaders met in Paris to consider their next steps.

The planes were in the air not far from Libya this afternoon and were ready to carry out air strikes if there are orders from President Nicolas Sarkozy, a military official with knowledge of the preparations said on condition of anonymity.

World leaders gathered in Paris on Saturday to discuss a coordinated military intervention in Libya, where Muammar Gaddafi defied the West with an advance into the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

A witness from the western town of Zintin has told Al Arabiya that Gaddafi forces were pounding the town with artillery and residents, including women and children, were taking refuge hideouts in the city.

The witness added that Gaddafi forces were attempting to subdue the opposition-held town because of its strategic location west of the capital Tripoli.

An unnamed U.S. official has said the ongoing violence against Libyan civilians "obviously has an impact" on the international community's next steps

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, British Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Sarkozy met privately and then sat down with Arab leaders, an African Union representative, European Union representatives and European heads of state to prepare rapid U.N.-mandated action.

After Gaddafi broke his pledge of a ceasefire overnight, sources close to the Paris talks said military strikes could start as soon as the meeting ends on Saturday afternoon, with France, Britain and Canada in an initial operation and any participation by the United States or Arab nations coming later.

"The strikes could start around 3 or 4 o'clock (1400-1500 GMT)," one source said, adding that Gaddafi's advance into the eastern city of Benghazi had increased pressure to act fast.

A second source said it was "certainly possible" that strikes would start straight after the meeting.

Sarkozy will address the media after the meeting wraps up at around 3:30 p.m. (1430 GMT) and Clinton, Cameron and Merkel are also expected to make statements.

Iraq's foreign minister was at the talks, as was the Qatari prime minister and United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, even though Germany is not expected to participate in any action for now.

Determined to prove its diplomatic clout after its clumsy handling of the revolt in Tunisia, Paris has been at the forefront of coordinating a world response to the crisis in Libya, where Gaddafi's troops outgun rag-tag and poorly armed rebel forces. Sarkozy was the first foreign leader to recognize the opposition and drop support for Gaddafi.

Backed by Cameron, Sarkozy convened Saturday's talks in a matter of hours after pushing France's U.N. Security Council partners hard this week to back a resolution allowing possible military action and a no-fly zone over Libya.

NATO ambassadors met in Brussels earlier on Saturday to discuss involvement by the 28-member military alliance in enforcing a no-fly zone, but no decision was taken.

A NATO diplomat said Britain, the United States and Canada were in favour of NATO taking a lead in any operation but said Paris was lukewarm on the idea.

"There could be a decision tomorrow saying that NATO will engage in a no-fly zone, but it's still not clear whether it will be a coalition of the willing, or a NATO operation," the diplomat said.

"France seems to have some problem with it being a NATO operation, given NATO's reputation in the Arab world as a result of Afghanistan and given that NATO is seen as an alliance dominated by the United States."

He added: "What is certain is that time is pressing. A delay of 12 hours of so could be very harmful."

Gaddafi's push into Libya's second city of 670,000 people, in spite of the ceasefire pledged on Friday, appeared to be an attempt to pre-empt Western military action.

France and Britain declined to react to the latest attacks ahead of the Paris talks, but a French government source said the international community must act fast.

"Everything is ready (to act) but the decision is now a political one. It's clear we have to move quickly," he said.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe met EU Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton earlier on Saturday to discuss the EU's role.

**socal** · 20-03-2011, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Libya might descent into civil war hell, and that's not good for oil and our economic recovery, above all when there is no guarantee that the Libyan people will get a better deal with the new western backed owner

There is no real economic recovery. Stocks priced in dollars is not everything.

**Mid** · 20-03-2011, 09:32 AM

again , please credit the sources

the OP is from the following blog :

https://foreclosureblues.wordpress.c...on-over-libya/

foreclosureblues.wordpress.com

**Butterfly** · 20-03-2011, 09:33 AM

Sarko is under a lot of pressure at home, highly unpopular, just 1 year from the next presidential election

a bit of French pride in a minor conflict might do him good, but in reality he is being foolish

**Butterfly** · 20-03-2011, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

So where's all them commie, left-wing, hippie War Protesters now, eh?

MARCH 19, 2011
OBAMA: 'Today we are part of a broad coalition. We are answering the calls of a threatened people. And we are acting in the interests of the United States and the world'...

MARCH 19, 2003
BUSH: 'American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger...

Less you forget BM, these boys come from the same club.

indeed, Obama and Bush are exactly following the same script

I think the Pentagon has taken over the US administration,

**Rural Surin** · 20-03-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Sarko is under a lot of pressure at home, highly unpopular, just 1 year from the next presidential election

a bit of French pride in a minor conflict might do him good, but in reality he is being foolish

Shall we start humming La Marseillaise??

**Humbert** · 20-03-2011, 09:54 AM

Mini Moi appears to be in the driver's seat on theez one, n'est pas?

**socal** · 20-03-2011, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Sarko is under a lot of pressure at home, highly unpopular, just 1 year from the next presidential election

a bit of French pride in a minor conflict might do him good, but in reality he is being foolish

The French Dassault Mirage F1 fired the first shot.

Followed by the the British Panavia Tornado

Italy sent some Eurofighters.

**CaptainNemo** · 20-03-2011, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Humbert

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

stable developing colonies

Whose colonies?

Everyone's.

**Norton** · 20-03-2011, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

a bit of French pride

McDonald's begins selling Freedom Fries to acknowledge French leadership in spreading Democracy.

Thread: The Libyan Crisis

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