Thread: The Libyan Crisis

so you would have had them do nothing ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

if the US was to face such a revolt, and they started bombing their own people, would the UN security council vote for sanctions ?

They would arrest the owner of facebook and twitter etc.

Originally Posted by Mid

so you would have had them do nothing ?

exactly, let their hypocrisy surface for the world to see

besides, you do realize that such a vote is not going to stop the battle on the ground, so it will accomplish nothing except white wash their conscience

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Originally Posted by Butterfly

if the US was to face such a revolt, and they started bombing their own people, would the UN security council vote for sanctions ?

They would arrest the owner of facebook and twitter etc.

and shutdown the Internet for the entire world, no doubt

let's not forget that the root DNS servers are under the control of ICANN and indirectly the US Treasury

originally the US Treasury was the "operator" of the root DNS system, the contract for technical control was handled by Network Solutions,

they should send Blair to negotiate an exit

would bring the whole situation to a new level of comedy

can we have more twitters please ?

Well, I'm just following policy on the news mate...I'll forget the tweets for now as that annoys people too.

Welcome to the new news. Highly abbreviated and edited.

Revealed: Blair's secret calls to Gaddafi - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Revealed: Blair's secret calls to Gaddafi

Ex-PM phones Libyan despot – and urges him to quit, while SAS mounts daring rescue of oil workers stranded in desert

By Donald Macintyre

Sunday, 27 February 2011


afp/getty images
Tony Blair with Muammar Gaddafi in 2007

Tony Blair, widely criticised in recent days for offering Muammar Gaddafi "the hand of friendship" seven years ago, made an extraordinary personal intervention when he twice phoned the embattled Libyan dictator on Friday and asked him to stop killing protesters rising up against the regime.

(To read the full story, click the link above)

Not a word regarding the so-called Ghaddafi loyalists. Not citizenry, but regular military {whom are defecting in round about numbers} and straight up hired foreign mercenaries, which I understand are in the thousands, whom might not be so "loyal" to the ruling Ghaddafis, but to hard cash.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

(CBS/AP) ZAWIYA, Libya - Anti-government forces backed by rebel army troops are in control of the city closest to the capital Tripoli.

An Associated Press reporter who arrived Sunday in Zawiya, 30 miles west of Tripoli, says forces loyal to longtime ruler Muammar Qaddafi are surrounding the city of 200,000.

This is pretty scary. Obviously the line in the sand Gaddafi has drawn.
A town of 200,000 close to Tripoli, and surrounded where Gaddafi has considerable back up. This may be where the revolution succeeds or turns into a massacre on a scale not seen yet.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Revealed: Blair's secret calls to Gaddafi - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Revealed: Blair's secret calls to Gaddafi

Ex-PM phones Libyan despot – and urges him to quit, while SAS mounts daring rescue of oil workers stranded in desert

By Donald Macintyre

Sunday, 27 February 2011


afp/getty images
Tony Blair with Muammar Gaddafi in 2007

Tony Blair, widely criticised in recent days for offering Muammar Gaddafi "the hand of friendship" seven years ago, made an extraordinary personal intervention when he twice phoned the embattled Libyan dictator on Friday and asked him to stop killing protesters rising up against the regime.

(To read the full story, click the link above)

Nice of Tony to ask his old mate to stop the killing. I wonder if he offered to act as a political adviser? Old Tony boy just pulled a $43 million contract with the Kuwaiti government as political adviser while supposed to be acting in the role of UN Middle East envoy on $600k.

^ gotta love international politics, a lucrative business

don't forget he needs to pay his agent for the 43m deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...medium=twitter

28 February 2011 Last updated at 18:11 GMT

Cameron: UK working on 'no-fly zone' plan for Libya



Britain is working with its allies on a plan to establish a military no-fly zone over Libya, says David Cameron.

The prime minister said the threat of "further appalling steps" being taken by Col Muammar Gaddafi to oppress his own people was behind the talks.

He said he did not rule out "the use of military assets" in Libya and said the "murderous regime" must end.

Fewer than 150 British citizens are thought to remain in Libya and only a "very small proportion" want to leave.

The government would continue to do "all we can" to get them out, he said.

Libya has been embroiled in turmoil as protesters demand Colonel Gaddafi - the Middle East's longest serving ruler - steps down.

The UN estimates that about 100,000 people have fled anti-government unrest over the past week and thousands may have been killed or injured in a violent crackdown by the regime.

In a statement to MPs after returning from a tour of the Middle East, Mr Cameron said the government was "taking every possible step to isolate the Gaddafi regime".

'Military assets'

The UK has frozen Col Gaddafi's British-held assets and those of his family, and withdrawn their diplomatic immunity and an export ban has been imposed on Libyan banknotes, which are printed in Britain.

Mr Cameron said that Britain had secured a European Union agreement on freezing the assets of a "wider group of individuals" connected to Col Gaddafi and banning them from entering the EU. A wider arms embargo was also being imposed against Libya.

The PM told MPs there would be "further isolation of the regime by expelling it from international organisations" and further use of asset freezes and travel bans to encourage those "on the fringes of the regime, that now is the time to desert it".

He added: "And we do not in any way rule out the use of military assets, we must not tolerate this regime using military force against its own people.

"In that context I have asked the Ministry of Defence and the Chief of the Defence Staff to work with our allies on plans for a military no-fly zone."

The Labour MP Ann Clwyd told him that a no-fly zone could "save thousands of lives if he's [Col Gaddafi] going to bomb his own people from the air".

Mr Cameron said they would comply with international law but planning for a no-fly zone had to start now because no-one knew what Col Gaddafi would do to his own people and one might have to be put in place "very quickly".

But he added that trying to secure a no-fly zone over a country as large as Libya was "not without its difficulties": "We would be trying to cover a vast area, it would take a serious amount of military assets to achieve it."

But he added: "I do think it's one thing we need to look at, look at it urgently and plan for, in case we find, as we may well do, that Col Gaddafi is taking further appalling steps to oppress his people and that is why the conversations are taking place today."

'Day of reckoning'

The Ministry of Defence said that the plans were still at an early stage and the initial focus would be on which countries would back it and what military assets they could then be deploy to enforce it.

The BBC's Jonathan Beale said it was not yet clear what contribution Britain might make but one source had suggested RAF Typhoon fighter jets could be stationed at a UK base in Cyprus, although the source made clear no decisions had yet been taken.

Mr Cameron also said the UK was acting to prevent a "humanitarian crisis" and would be flying in tents and blankets on Tuesday, and had dispatched technical teams to help migrant workers get home.

But Labour leader Ed Miliband urged him to apologise for the government's handling of the crisis last week - when a rescue effort for Britains in Libya was delayed - saying they had been let down by "chaos and incompetence".

However, he welcomed the comments that Britain's defence chiefs had been asked to work with Britain's allies on plans for a military no-fly zone and he welcomed the increasing international isolation placed on the regime.

Meanwhile, Foreign Secretary William Hague has called for an immediate end to violence against anti-government demonstrators in Libya and warned Col Gaddafi's supporters that there will be a "day of reckoning" for anyone involved in human rights abuses.

Addressing a meeting of the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, he said: "This is a warning to anyone contemplating the abuse of human rights in Libya or any other country: Stay your hand. There will be a day of reckoning and the reach of international justice can be long.

"We must now maintain the momentum we have attained to ensure that there can be no impunity for crimes committed in Libya and to help bring about an immediate end to the violence."

^ Well, Libya does have oil

Lots of it...

Have got to have a good laugh at the way the western powers and particularly USA sit on their hands watching these events unfold in the Middle East during the early stages. A familiar pattern emerges; -- 1. In the early stages, before it is clear which side might win, western governments "urge restraint and condemn violence" on both sides. 2. Once it becomes clear which side is going to succeed they back the winner; -- In the case of Egypt and Libya, calling for their former dictator friends to step down.

Its not just a battle between the people of these Middle East countries demanding democracy and self determination and their western installed dictators now. The new battle is going to be between the peoples wishes for freedom, democracy and a fairer society and the new puppet dictator government the west might try to install through covert means.

As we are seeing now, there are new protests in Tunisia and Egypt against the re-establishment of the old regimes under new names.

good point, I think the current ME revolt is more revealing about us and our governments than the locals wishes for change

we have been exposed,

the Brits are taking it in the arse in every ways, couldn't happen to a better government

Cameron is a joke, a clown, like Sarko

http://english.aljazeera.net//news/a...230586880.html

Battles rage in Libya

Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi struggle to regain control of strategic cities amid growing humanitarian concerns.

Last Modified: 01 Mar 2011 11:44 GMT

Government opponents in the Libyan city of Az Zawiyah have repulsed an attempt by forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi to retake the city closest to the capital, Tripoli, in six hours of fighting overnight, witnesses say.

Tursday's claims follow reports that government forces attacked the city from the west and the east, and that fighter jets bombed an ammunition depot in the eastern city of Ajdabiya.

There was no word on casualties in Az Zawiyah, which is 50km west of Tripoli.

"We will not give up Az Zawiyah at any price,'' one witness said on Tuesday.

"We know it is significant strategically. They will fight to get it, but we will not give up. We managed to defeat them because our spirits are high and their spirits are zero."

The rebels, who include army forces who defected from the government, are armed with tanks, machine guns and anti-aircraft guns.

They fought back pro-Gaddafi troops using the same weapons who attacked from six directions.

Battle for Az Zawiyah

A resident of Az Zawiyah told the Associated Press news agency by telephone on Monday that fighting started in the evening and intensified after dusk when troops loyal to Gaddafi attacked the city.

"We were able to repulse the attack. We damaged a tank with an RPG. The mercenaries fled after that," said the resident, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of government reprisals.

He said Gaddafi called the city's influential tribal leader, Mohammed al-Maktouf, and warned him that if the rebels did not leave the main square by early Tuesday, they would be hit by fighter jets.

"We are expecting a major battle," the resident said, adding that the rebels killed eight soldiers and mercenaries on Monday.


Read more of our Libya coverage

Another resident of Az Zawiyah said he heard gunfire well into the night on the outskirts of town.

AP said its reporter saw a large, pro-Gaddafi force massed on the western edge of Az Zawiyah.

There were also about a dozen armoured vehicles along with tanks and jeeps mounted with anti-aircraft guns.

An officer said the troops were from the elite Khamis Brigade, named after one of Gaddafi's sons who commands it and said by US diplomats to be the best-equipped force in Libya.

Gaddafi, Libya's ruler of 41 years, has already lost control of the eastern half of the country since protests demanding his resignation began two weeks ago. He still holds Tripoli.

The fighting came amid mounting international pressure on Gaddafi - already under sanctions over his handling of the turmoil - to end a crackdown on opponents pushing for his ouster.

The US, meanwhile, said it was moving warships and air forces closer to Libya and France said it would fly aid to the opposition-controlled eastern half of the country.

But Abdel Fattah Younes, Libya's former interior minister who has defected to the opposition, told Al Jazeera that welcoming "foreign troops" was "out of the question" although "touching down in Libya is acceptable only in the case of emergency".

"For example if any pilot was forced to eject, he will be hosted and protected by us," he said.

Humanitarian concerns

With government forces and rebels clashing in different parts of Libya, the security situation in and around Tripoli has made it too dangerous for international aid agencies to assess the need for medicine, food and other supplies there, according to the UN.

"The major concerns are Tripoli and the west where access is extremely difficult because of the security situation," Valerie Amos, the UN humanitarian chief, told Al Jazeera on Monday.

"There are reports that between 600 and 2,000 people have already been killed in Tripoli. We don't know the absolute accurate number because we haven't got people there who are able to do assessments ... we've seen some horrific pictures of what is happening and we really want to be able to go in to help people in the time of need."

Amos also called on countries neighbouring Libya to keep their borders open so refugees can continue to flee.

As of Monday morning, an estimated 61,000 had fled into Egypt, 1,000 to Niger and 40,000 to Tunisia, according to the UN, which said there was concern about water and sanitation for the refugees.

Gaddafi insists his people "love him", while UN says 40,000 people have fled to Tunisia

Libya also borders Algeria, Niger, Chad and Sudan.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has also called for immediate and safe access to western Libya.

ICRC teams entered the eastern side of the country including the country's second city Benghazi over the weekend, and are now supporting local doctors with medical care. Two thousand people were wounded there, according to the agency.

A similar ICRC team including surgeons and supplies was waiting on the western border in Tunisia.

"Right now, the situation is far too unstable and insecure to enable much-needed help to enter western parts of the country," Yves Daccord, the ICRC director-general, said.

"Health and aid workers must be allowed to do their jobs safely. Patients must not be attacked, and ambulances and hospitals must not be misused. It's a matter of life and death."

Thousands of foreigners have been evacuated from Libya since the unrest began on February 17, with ships and aircraft sent by countries including China India, the US, Turkey and many other European countries.

Anti-government protests started in the country's second-largest city of Benghazi, which is now in the hands of the protesters, and have since spread to the west of the country.

Gaddafi, in power since 1969, remains defiant and has scoffed at calls to step down, saying foreign powers, including al-Qaeda and drug addicts, were behind the unrest.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Gaddafi insists his people "love him", while UN says 40,000 people have fled to Tunisia

Already up to 75,000 have struggled into Tunisia, but yesterday the crossing system collapsed as thousands of men -- almost all Arabs desperate to escape Muammar Gaddafi's state -- fought with local Tunisians who, under the eyes of the army, attacked them with stakes and iron bars.

Robert Fisk: No food or water for 20,000 in four days at hell's border - Analysis, Opinion - Independent.ie

The latest footage from the border between Libya and Tunisia where tens of thousands of migrants are struggling to leave the country in the wake of the uprising against Muammar Gaddafi

youtube.com

If you want to see this at its most ridiculous, watch Lisa Holland on Sky "interviewing" Seif Gaddafi. What a odious fucking toad he is. I hope they nail this fucker like they nailed Saddam's sons. The sooner someone double taps this arsehole the better.

youtube.com

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Britain is working with its allies on a plan to establish a military no-fly zone over Libya, says David Cameron.

The prime minister said the threat of "further appalling steps" being taken by Col Muammar Gaddafi to oppress his own people was behind the talks.

He said he did not rule out "the use of military assets" in Libya and said the "murderous regime" must end.

Another illegal war for the UK. Here we go again.

Has the UK declared war on Libya and if so on what grounds. If the Libyans shoot down a UK aeroplane does Dave plan to go nuclear?

Will he do the same to the Israelis who are currently bombing the Palestinians in the Gaza strip with "military assets" supplied by the US?

Will he do the same to the Bahranis whose mercenaries/Police/Armed forces from the Sudan, Pakistan and Egypt are currently shooting the local population in Manama with "military assets" supplied by the US/UK?

Will he do the same to ...........

But at the end of the day in bosnia, it was the systematic bombing, probably illegal, of bosnian serb military assets that brought that conflict to an end. Once their military superiority was gone, they seemed take negotiations much more seriously.

The idea of a UN sanctioned no-fly zone with associated asset bombing would gadafi's loyalists in position of not being able to organise large scale turkey shoots of the Libyan population. It evens up the fight, giving the Libyans their own victory over gadafi. More importantly concentrate loylist minds on whats going happen to them, when they inevitably end up on the loosing side.

With the authorisation of the security council, this would be a morel and ethical action. But then when china faced similar issues to those gadaffi was initially faced with, they resorted to battlefield weapons and civilian slaughter much earlier in the escalation. by not vetoing such action at the security council, they might be denying themselves the future right to use such tools, again, to keep hold on power in china.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

If you want to see this at its most ridiculous, watch Lisa Holland on Sky "interviewing" Seif Gaddafi. What a odious fucking toad he is. I hope they nail this fucker like they nailed Saddam's sons. The sooner someone double taps this arsehole the better.

As some wise person once said, --"the first casualty of war is the truth".

Government propaganda is routinely used by all governments to put their own spin on events. Although this idiots spiel is a bit (a lot) over the top, it does have some minor factual content, as most propaganda does.
The west too along with the anti-Gaddafi resistance is not immune from bending the truth. Reports of Gaddafi using his airforce to strafe protesters is an example.
They bombed ammunition stores in rebel held areas to stop them getting more arms and ammo is all. The only evidence to substantiate the rebels claim is a short video of a helicopter flying overhead with the sound of gunfire in the background. And another of a jet flying past. Sure some people got killed when they hit the ammo dumps, but its not like jets attacking protesters. Its the verbal narration (spin) that builds the picture.

Today the USA and other countries backed down from their threat of imposing a no-fly zone over Libya saying it would be too difficult. Utter crap! The Yanks could completely wipe out the Libyan air force and its infrastructure in less than a day if they wanted to. But the reality is that they have no grounds to do so since these claims of the Libyan airforce attacking unarmed protesters is baseless and would be proved to be so in the future. Add into this that the protesters are now well armed with captured weapons and the situation has now escalated into a civil war rather than simply people protesting on the streets.

Dont believe everything the western mainstream media feeds you anymore than the crap this son of Gidaffi is dishing out. The facts are out there somewhere, but its a hell of a job to sift through the propaganda and find it.