Thread: Womens' Issues

Can't blame the Lord for misinterpretations. Blame those uneducated people who fall victim in hands of Mullahs etc.

Please don't mix culture with religion. You're supporting your argument by posting cultural fockups not religious.

I hope you don't mind my foul language mate.

Originally Posted by Macha

Can't blame the Lord for misinterpretations. Blame those uneducated people who fall victim in hands of Mullahs etc.

Please don't mix culture with religion. You're supporting your argument by posting cultural fockups not religious.

I hope you don't mind my foul language mate.

Religion influences culture; culture influences religion.

They both go hand in hand. From the beginning, throughout time, to today.


And no sir, I don't mind any foul language.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Macha

Can't blame the Lord for misinterpretations. Blame those uneducated people who fall victim in hands of Mullahs etc.

Please don't mix culture with religion. You're supporting your argument by posting cultural fockups not religious.

I hope you don't mind my foul language mate.

Religion influences culture; culture influences religion.

They both go hand in hand. From the beginning, throughout time, to today.


And no sir, I don't mind any foul language.

If its like what you say "relgion influences culture, culture influences relgion" then there're thousands of acid cases world wide (even in non Muslim countries). How would you explain that? Religion? Culture? or just fockwits?

I hate to see an educated person like yourself pointing to the many backward customs prevalent in the Muslim countries to blame Islam.

[quote=Macha;156211]

Islam actually introduced the concept of women's rights! Islam has never taught that women should be denied a political voice, and in those Muslim countries that are not ruled by kings one finds that women vote freely. Iran, which is branded as terrorist country actually has more elected woemn in government than the United States!!!

The exuses of muslims are that they always say: Ohhh... this is not in our country...
Ohhh those are crazy muslims educated muslims don't do this.
Please tell me one country where womens right are protected by law in a muslim country.

Iran has got to be one of the most idiotic posts to say that they have women rights!!!!
Women can not run for President or become a judge!
Women cannot have full guardianship over their children after divorce, and they get half as much inheritance as men!
The list goes on and on....but please look for yourself

Women's Forum Against Fundamentalism in Iran

Originally Posted by kingwillyhggtb

Originally Posted by surasak

Not at all.

Remember, the Bible says: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body.

its fundamently flawed to quote the bible for guidance like that. this is why.

1. ppl tend to forget the bible is not actually one book - its a complimation of many pieces of scripture. basically each 'chapter' is a different book with different authors.

and a number of them actually have multiple authors eg: the gospel of Mark is suspected to have at least 2/3 authors. (and they were not really called Mark either.)

2.there is/are many more pieces of scripture that could have been included. including other Gospels. it was a group of priests or brothers (i forget right now) in the middle ages that decided what to include and not include. eg: there is a gospel that describes Jesus performing magic - such as lengthening a piece of wood his father (the carpernter) had cut too short. in this case it was decided that ppl would misread that miracle as witchcraft - which they were trying to eradicate.

3. In many cases the Jews and early Christians used an oral tradition - so these books were not actaully written until long after events (years and decades)

4. it was written by PEOPLE.

5. with agenda's - for a SPECIFIC audience.

6. its been translated through several languages.

I agree, hence, my little demonstration.

[quote=surasak;156151]

How many cultures have the West destroyed in the quest to bring Christianity to non-believers?

Will Durant, the famous historian summed it up like this:
"The Islamic conquest of India is pr...lying within."

It took Christian nations almost 2000 years to give women equal rights, so, maybe we ought to cut the rest of the world a little slack if they haven't caught up yet.

I guess you're not a woman and the time faktor has no meaning to you.
There never was "Womens Right" in Islam !
Almost every country had their share of Great Women (Google it) in history. How many Woman from Islam are on that list?

Well ... at least some of our forum friends can rest peacefully knowing they can be President too ... we have precedent for electing dopers and drunks. :>)

Originally Posted by surasak

Has the world's most powerful democracy elected a woman as a leader yet?

Yes. Maggie Thatcher.

Originally Posted by Macha

If its like what you say "relgion influences culture, culture influences relgion" then there're thousands of acid cases world wide (even in non Muslim countries). How would you explain that? Religion? Culture? or just fockwits?

It depends on the context of the situation. A jilted lover is a f*ckwit, IMO. In other cases it's religion. In others, religion and f*ckwhits. In some cases it's culture; in other cases religion, culture, and f*ckwhits.

Religion influences culture; culture influence religion.

Sharia law is a law that is based upon religion. Law affects the culture. Law, it's rules, and punishments are a part of culture.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Women can not run for President or become a judge!

Oh really?? and what a cruelty that is.What if men say we aint allowed to go for miss.universe contest.Bullshit.Iran has more elected women in the government that is true now dont say that they dont allow women to drink beer and go out with men is against their rights.

Benazir bhutto was the Prime minister of Pakistan and I think pakistan is a muslim country.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

The exuses of muslims are that they always say: Ohhh... this is not in our country...
Ohhh those are crazy muslims educated muslims don't do this.
Please tell me one country where womens right are protected by law in a muslim country.

Sterotype, no surprise! If you say Muslims are all doing the same shit then you're an ignorant. Pardon my harsh words but I'm compelled to say it. If it were like that, all Germans would be called Jews killers, all Jews would be called baby eaters, all Americans would be called black haters and all Brits racists.

Sorry you don't have a valid point to support your argument. By the way, what rights are you talking about? Please be specific so that we can discuss.

Please tell me one country where womens right are protected by law in a muslim country.

Turkey, probably.
Except they have no right to wear a veil there.

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

Please tell me one country where womens right are protected by law in a muslim country.

Open your mind:

Carnegie Papers: Women’s Rights and Democracy in the Arab World

Even in a 'highly industrialized' nation like the U.S. the percentage of women actually holding office is still about the same as some Arab nations. Most Arab countries gave women the right to vote before most European countries did.

Of course, even in the West what is legal and what is put into practice are far different, aren't they? How many women in the West hold high positions? Was Thatcher the only one?

Don't go throwing pies around unless you are willing to let them hit you in the face also.

As a whole, women are only one small slice of the minority pie in the US. I would venture to guess that minorities as a whole are much better represented in government positions in countries like the US and UK than in most Arab countries anyway ... not sure about all the Muslim countries.

Is that surprising considering the melting-pot nature of the UK/US?

That's why I say you can't really compare the experience of those countries with ones that are more homogenized.

Look at Thailand for example. Non-Thais generally cannot own land. Is that a bad thing? Not from their perspective to keep Thailand a generally Thai nation.

We don''t do it here because genetically and ethnically there is no such thing as an American. America is just a conglomeration of ideas from all countries rolled into one...much as English itself is a hodgepodge of thousands of foreign words rolled into one mess.

I think if you are going to compare rights in one homogeneous nation you should compare it to another. Likewise you just can't compare rights or lack of them in a heterogenous nation to one that isn't. If you want to be fair compare the rights of women in one Muslim/Arab country to another. Find out which one is oppressive and which one is free from the viewpoint of an Arab.

Some people surasak only want to be "culturally" sensitive when it fits their agenda.

Originally Posted by Eliminator

It would seem she was nothing more that a TOKEN or puppet pm if anything at all and was only elected by her party not the people because of the killing of her father.

oh so the Women who used to be a professor in Oxford university was just a puppet huh???

Do you even know how many people supported her??

What do you know about the Sindhi people of Pakistan??

It's hard to imagine living in a rather homogeneous culture for many of us simply because we come from places which due to trade and influence and freedom allow many people to come into contact with one another (I guess that's why I like Asia in general....nice large populations of the same people where I can feel different for a change).

I think that's part of the problem when we look at conflicts, strife, and 'rights' as we are used to them. Do we apply a universal standard of rights to solve problems? Do we apply our own and use force to reach that goal? Is it fair to use force to make people change to our way of thinking? What makes us right and them wrong?

Let us not forget that women's rights are a relatively recent addition to the Western world and I'll bet it has more to do with needing women to enter the workforce to fill jobs than any sort of benevolence on the part of men to simply give them equal rights unconditionally. I wonder were it not for the need of women to work in factories due to World Wars I and II if even the West would have bothered with women's rights?


My personal feeling is that women and men will forever be different and no amount of legislation will change that.

What if the roles were reversed and men had to wear hijabs? It would be hard to do work wearing one, wouldn't it? If one isn't supposed to work then what's the big deal?

I dunno, I'm babbling....

Originally Posted by surasak

We don't do it here because genetically and ethnically there is no such thing as an American.

Jing lor?



Well, near enough.

Look at Thailand for example. Non-Thais generally cannot own land. Is that a bad thing? Not from their perspective to keep Thailand a generally Thai nation.

Also keeps prices to an affordable level.