Thread: Womens' Issues

MHZ:

Jerusalem, Ir Salem, City of Peace, is probably the least peaceful city in the history of the known universe, though it is fair to suggest that even the most outrageous Islamic scholar would be compelled to concede that Jerusalem was Jerusalem by both the Jews and the Christians, several centuries before the invention of Islam.

Also, though Jerusalem was on the trade routes, more so than Mecca and Medina, your quote job does confirm, however distasteful to you, that the city was of no religious significance to Islam until it was cleverly linked with Mohamed's ascendancy, by Caliph Umar, several years after the death of the Prophet.

Otoh, as Mohamed conceded that he was the 3rd prophet, after those of the Jews and the Christians, it could be said with logic twisted true to form that anything holy to those two religions must by implication be holy to Islam...therefore, Jerusalem has always been a Muslim holy place, even before the advent of Islam. Gosh!

Also, mildly surprised that you include the last paragraph in your quote, claiming that Muslims have an obligation to honour other religions, considering the clear and unambiguous statement of intent from their holiest of holy clerics and secular leaders.

keda

Originally Posted by keda

MHZ:
Otoh, as Mohamed conceded that he was the 3rd prophet, after those of the Jews and the Christians, it could be said with logic twisted true to form that anything holy to those two religions must by implication be holy to Islam...therefore, Jerusalem has always been a Muslim holy place, even before the advent of Islam. Gosh!

I thought Mohammed was the 5th prophet, the others being Adam (?), Abreham (Ibrahim), Moses and Jesus.

But what does it matter? The Jews should blame the Italians, who tore down their temple and kicked them out.

Like Whiteshiva said earlier its sacred to Muslims cos of Jesus (Essa), Moses (Musa), David (Dawood) and of course Mohammed.

Volume 4, Book 56, Number 829:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
The Jews came to Allah's Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah's Apostle said to them, "What do you find in the Torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?" They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them." Abdullah bin Salam said, "You are telling a lie; Torah contains the order of Rajm." They brought and opened the Torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, "Lift your hand." When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, "Muhammad has told the truth; the Torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. ('Abdullah bin 'Umar said, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones."
Book 38, Number 4407:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
Ma'iz ibn Malik came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said that he had committed fornication and he (the Prophet) turned away from him. He repeated it many times, but he (the Prophet) turned away from him. He asked his people: Is he mad? They replied: There is no defect in him. He asked: Have you done it with her? He replied: Yes. so he ordered that he should be stoned to death. He was taken out and stoned to death, and he (the Prophet) did not pray over him.

Book 38, Number 4413:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to Ma'iz ibn Malik: Perhaps you kissed, or squeezed, or looked. He said: No. He then said: Did you have intercourse with her? He said: Yes. On the (reply) he (the Prophet) gave order that he should be stoned to death.
Book 38, Number 4421:
Narrated Al-Lajlaj al-Amiri:
I was working in the market. A woman passed carrying a child. The people rushed towards her, and I also rushed along with them.
I then went to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) while he was asking: Who is the father of this (child) who is with you? She remained silent.
A young man by her side said: I am his father, Apostle of Allah!
He then turned towards her and asked: Who is the father of this child with you?
The young man said: I am his father, Apostle of Allah! The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) then looked at some of those who were around him and asked them about him. They said: We only know good (about him).
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said to him: Are you married? He said: Yes. So he gave orders regarding him and he was stoned to death.
He (the narrator) said: We took him out, dug a pit for him and put him in it. We then threw stones at him until he died. A man then came asking about the man who was stoned.
We brought him to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: This man has come asking about the wicked man.
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: He is more agreeable than the fragrance of musk in the eyes of Allah. The man was his father. We then helped him in washing, shrouding and burying him. (The narrator said I do not know whether he said or did not say "in praying over him." This is the tradition of Abdah, and it is more accurate.
Chapter 4: STONING OF A MARRIED ADULTERER

Book 017, Number 4194:
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

Book 017, Number 4195:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters.

Chapter 5: HE WHO CONFESSES HIS GUILT OF ADULTERY

Book 017, Number 4196:
Abu Huraira reported that a person from amongst the Muslims came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) while he was in the mosque. He called him saying: Allah's Messenger. I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away from him, He (again) came round facing him and said to him: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away until he did that four times, and as he testified four times against his own self, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called him and said: Are you mad? He said: No. He (again) said: Are you married? He said: Yes. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Take him and stone him. Ibn Shihab (one of the narrators) said: One who had heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying this informed me thus: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the place of prayer (either that of 'Id or a funeral). When the stones hurt him, he ran away. We caught him in the Harra and stoned him (to death). This hadith has been narrated through another chain of transmitters.

Book 017, Number 4197:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira through other chains of transmitters.

Book 017, Number 4198:
Jabir b. Samura reported: As he was being brought to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) I saw Ma'iz b. Malik-a short-statured person with strong sinews, having no cloak around him. He bore witness against his own self four times that he had committed adultery, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Perhaps (you kissed her or embraced her). He said: No. by God, one deviating (from the path of virtue) has committed adultery. He then got him stoned (to death), and then delivered the address: Behold, as we set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah, one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat, and gave a small quantity of milk. By Allah, in case I get hold of him, I shall certainly punish him.

Book 017, Number 4199:
Jabir b. Samura reported that there was brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a short-statured person with thick uncombed hair, muscular body, having a mantle around him and he had committed adultery. He turned him away twice and then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned. Then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: We set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah and one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat and one of then (goats' gave a small quantity of milk. In case Allah gives me power over one of them, I will punish him (in such a way that it may have a deterrent effect upon others). In another narration transmitted on the authority of Sa'id b Jubair (the words are), that He (the Holy Prophet) turned him away four times."

Book 017, Number 4200:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura through another chain of transmitters with the difference that along with the mentioning (of the fact) that he (the Holy Prophet) turned him away twice, or thrice.

Book 017, Number 4201:
Ibn Abbas reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to Ma'iz b. Malik: Is it true what has reached me about you? He said: What has reached you about me? He said: It has reached me that you have committed (adultery) with the slave-girl of so and so? He said: Yes. He (the narrator) said: He testified four times. He (the Holy Prophet) then made pronouncement about him and he was stoned (to death).

Herman, stoning to death ain't in the Quran. I don't believe in what Omar or his followers said.

Stoning to death came from here .....

"If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22: 22) and also in Leviticus,"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death" (Leviticus 20: 10).

And please discuss this in otter thread meant for this issue.

Herman let me tell you something. If stoning to death's the Islamic way of life then fock Islam. I've got brains and can distinguish right from wrong. I don't need those fockwit Mullahs to guide me.

Peace.

You're wasting your time, Herman, it's already been settled that Islam does not tolerate stoning and other barbarisms, because Macha's already stated that.

keda

In my experience many non-Muslims know more about Islam than right-living Muslims, people who genuinely subscribe to the peaceable path but who were brought up blindly accepting some teaching or interpretation that turned out to be clearly not so. This is not a criticism of all Muslims, but only those that claim knowledge of the religion simply because they believe they are following it as best they reasonably can.

I could cite several examples of my own ignorance, with followers of other religions setting me straight on issues in my religion that I thought were clear cut. Nothing radical though, like common decency.

keda

Originally Posted by keda

it's already been settled that Islam does not tolerate stoning and other barbarisms

does the bible tolerate shooting doctors (abortionists or otherwise)? of course not. but extremists will continue to manipulate their avowed ideologies.

grow up.

Originally Posted by keda

I could cite several examples of my own ignorance

this post is a good place to start.

Originally Posted by keda

many non-Muslims know more about Islam than right-living Muslims

guess what?

many non christians know more about christianity than 'right living' christians.

Originally Posted by keda

In my experience many non-Muslims know more about Islam than right-living Muslims, people who genuinely subscribe to the peaceable path but who were brought up blindly accepting some teaching or interpretation that turned out to be clearly not so.

Go eat shit keda. What the fock do you know about my religion? You know it cos google's there. YOu don't even know what sect of Islam do I belong to and in what ways we're different in our views from the other sects.

Having said that, we still don't believe that stoning to death was sanctioned by Mohammed. By the way, stoning to death or shot, electrocuted or poisioned does it make any difference?

Next time watch your focking mouth before you spout shit, you worthless peace of shit.

*People like you and KID are to be blamed for Muslims hating all white skin bastards*

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by keda

I could cite several examples of my own ignorance

this post is a good place to start.

Originally Posted by keda

many non-Muslims know more about Islam than right-living Muslims

guess what?

many non christians know more about christianity than 'right living' christians.

Precisely, rc. A bit touchy, but well done.

keda

Originally Posted by Macha

Originally Posted by keda

In my experience many non-Muslims know more about Islam than right-living Muslims, people who genuinely subscribe to the peaceable path but who were brought up blindly accepting some teaching or interpretation that turned out to be clearly not so.

Go eat shit keda. What the fock do you know about my religion? You know it cos google's there. YOu don't even know what sect of Islam do I belong to and in what ways we're different in our views from the other sects...

As you appear to believe Islam does not condone stoning or the chopping off of various limbs, as chorused by you several times, it does seem in this context that there are non-Muslims who know more about Islam than certain Muslims, as you have just demonstrated.

Also, it may have helped if you actually read my entire post, not just the bit that triggered your wholely unnecessary though typical diatribe...try reading it again, slowly.

Having said that, we still don't believe that stoning to death was sanctioned by Mohammed. By the way, stoning to death or shot, electrocuted or poisioned does it make any difference?

No difference at all to the end result, though your catalogue of execution formats signally failed to include beheading. I wonder why.

Next time watch your focking mouth before you spout shit, you worthless peace of shit.

*People like you and KID are to be blamed for Muslims hating all white skin bastards*

That just about sums you up.

keda

Originally Posted by Macha

YOu don't even know what sect of Islam do I belong to

I believe Macha is Shiite (if Macha doesn't mind me stating this).

Try to keep it civil, gentleman.

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by keda

it's already been settled that Islam does not tolerate stoning and other barbarisms

does the bible tolerate shooting doctors (abortionists or otherwise)? of course not. but extremists will continue to manipulate their avowed ideologies.

grow up.

"You are comparing Beer with Milk."

We are not talking about extremists here! We are talking about countries where it is commom practice.
Since you are not fully grown up yet... I will take the time to explain it to you.
Go shoot an abortionist doctor in the Western World.......you go to jail. Right!
Go stone your adultered wife in Afghanistan.....they cheer you and a spot in heaven is guaranteed.
Right!

Originally Posted by Macha

Herman let me tell you something. If stoning to death's the Islamic way of life then fock Islam. I've got brains and can distinguish right from wrong. I don't need those fockwit Mullahs to guide me.

Peace.

Wait a minute, this is not fair. Please explain to us what is a Hadith and what does it mean to the muslims. If muslims believe in these Hadiths and take them for examples, what am I to think about these people. I never meant you!
I don't know what you realy think.


That many or most things originated fron the old testament is nothing new. Cutting your little wiener, or stoning to death, wearing a veal are just a few examples. But somehow muslims seem to choose those things which benefit MEN the most and like to keep as a law or sharia or whatever. And since this thread is a women issue and "WOMAN IS THE NIGGER OF THE WORLD" especially in muslims country, I think my post fits right in here.

I greet a female pilot in the Pakistan Air Force. My true belief is that WOMEN are the key of helping muslims fit better into this crazy but beautiful world.

Salam to you too!

^ Fuck Islam,God and Mohammad. Please finish this. we muslims aint worthy.