Quagmire....

**barbaro** · 09-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Erm....the government....lied?
-----------------------------------------------------
Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat
By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press

WASHINGTON - addam Hussein regarded al-Qaida as a threat rather than a possible ally, a Senate report says, contradicting assertions President Bush has used to build support for the war in Iraq.

Released Friday, the report discloses for the first time an October 2005 CIA assessment that before the war, Saddam's government "did not have a relationship, harbor or turn a blind eye toward" al-Qaida operative Abu Musab al-Zarqawi or his associates.

Saddam told U.S. officials after his capture that he had not cooperated with Osama bin Laden even though he acknowledged that officials in his government had met with the al-Qaida leader, according to FBI summaries cited in the Senate report.

"Saddam only expressed negative sentiments about bin Laden," Tariq Aziz, the Iraqi leader's top aide, told the FBI.
The report also faults intelligence gathering in the lead-up to the 2003 invasion.

As recently as an Aug. 21 news conference, Bush said people should "imagine a world in which you had Saddam Hussein" with the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction and "who had relations with Zarqawi."
Democrats contended that the administration continues to use faulty intelligence, including assertions of a link between Saddam's government and the recently killed al-Zarqawi, to justify the war in Iraq. They also said, in remarks attached to Friday's Senate Intelligence Committee document, that former CIA Director George Tenet had modified his position on the terrorist link at the request of administration policymakers.

Republicans said the document, which compares prewar intelligence with post-invasion findings on Iraq's weapons and on terrorist groups, broke little new ground. And they said Democrats were distorting it for political purposes.

A previous report in 2004 made clear the intelligence agencies' "massive failures," said Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., a member of the committee. "Yet to make a giant leap in logic to claim that the Bush administration intentionally misled the nation or manipulated intelligence is simply not warranted."

White House press secretary Tony Snow said the report was "nothing new."

Link: Senate: Saddam saw al-Qaida as threat - Yahoo! News
-----------------------------------------------------
LMAO

**man with no head** · 09-09-2006, 02:08 PM

Bush lied and people died:

There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al-Qaida ties.

Can we impeach him?

Bush: No Iraq link to 9/11 found

**barbaro** · 09-09-2006, 02:17 PM

^ There could be legal grounds for an impeachment vote, but I strongly doubt it will happen. I think it should be looked into though. Pelosi may start some hearings about it, but I think most of it will be testimony and rhetoric.

Slowly but surely....the truth is coming out (even though this is old news).

I still believe a large percentage of Americans (don't have exact figures) believe that Secular Hussein liked Wahabbi Bin Laden. They could not have been more different.

**raycarey** · 09-09-2006, 03:15 PM

IMO bush will be censured in 2007---there's no way in hell he'll be impeached....unfortunately.

history, however, will not be kind. he'll be judged as arrogant, disengaged and lacking intellectual curiosity.

**Boon Mee** · 10-09-2006, 09:29 PM

“At the core of modern liberalism is the spoiled child--miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”
-- P.J. O’Rourke

“We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”
-- Hillary Clinton, June 28, 2004

Sound like the philosophy of any posters on here?

**Whiteshiva** · 11-09-2006, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

“At the core of modern liberalism is the spoiled child--miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”

What are you trying to say here, BM - that George Bush is a liberal?

**raycarey** · 11-09-2006, 04:22 PM

......or that you're incapable of original thought and need to cut and paste the quotes of washed up politcal commentators?

**man with no head** · 11-09-2006, 05:52 PM

The hidden costs of the Iraq war. Not only is the Federal deficit higher because of this idiotic war but it's tearing families apart FOR NO GOOD REASON.

The 4-23's soldiers say they, not the Iraqis, do 95 percent of the searches. "I'd like to punch [Rumsfeld] in the gut," says one seasoned NCO on his second Iraq tour. "He treats us like we're not human. He acts like he's not destroying families."

Now that's a brave soldier.

When Rumsfeld, Bush, and Cheney are out of office they should be shipped over to fight their war.

Troops and Families Battle Iraq Fatigue - Newsweek: International Editions - MSNBC.com

**barbaro** · 11-09-2006, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

“At the core of modern liberalism is the spoiled child--miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.”
-- P.J. O’Rourke

“We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.”
-- Hillary Clinton, June 28, 2004

Sound like the philosophy of any posters on here?

It doesn't sound like any posters that I know of.

It definately isn't me. I've never voted for a "Liberal" candidate in my life.

Nice over-generalizaions and juvenile characterizations, though, B.M.

**raycarey** · 11-09-2006, 11:35 PM

the apologists have been claiming that it's only baghdad that is out of control, but....

The chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps in Iraq recently filed an unusual secret report concluding that the prospects for securing that country's western Anbar province are dim and that there is almost nothing the U.S. military can do to improve the political and social situation there, said several military officers and intelligence officials familiar with its contents

>>>snip<<<

there are no functioning Iraqi government institutions in Anbar, leaving a vacuum that has been filled by the insurgent group al-Qaeda in Iraq, which has become the province's most significant political force, said the Army officer, who has read the report. Another person familiar with the report said it describes Anbar as beyond repair; a third said it concludes that the United States has lost in Anbar

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 01:07 PM

It's the 5 o'clock follies.
---------------

U.S. excluded car, suicide bombs from Iraq murder toll

POSTED: 7:25 p.m. EDT, September 11, 2006

var clickExpire = "10/11/2006";BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- The U.S. military did not count people killed by bombs, mortars, rockets or other mass attacks when it reported a dramatic drop in the number of murders in the Baghdad area last month, the U.S. command said Monday.

The decision to include only victims of drive-by shootings and those killed by torture and execution, usually at the hands of death squads, allowed U.S. officials to argue that a security crackdown that began in the capital August 7 had more than halved the city's murder rate.

But the types of slayings, including suicide bombings, that the U.S. excluded from the category of "murder" were not made explicit at the time. That led to confusion after Iraqi Health Ministry figures showed that 1,536 people died violently in and around Baghdad in August, nearly the same number as in July.

The figures raise serious questions about the success of the security operation launched by the U.S.-led coalition. When they released the murder rate figures, U.S. officials and their Iraqi counterparts were eager to show progress in restoring security in Baghdad at a time when Iraq appeared on the verge of civil war.

Entire & Link: CNN.com - U.S. excluded car, suicide bombs from Iraq murder toll - Sep 11, 2006

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 01:13 PM

But the insurgency is in their death throes! Cheney said so in May 2005. You and the rest of the media are making it up!

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

But the insurgency is in their death throes! Cheney said so in May 2005. You and the rest of the media are making it up!

Throughout this charade - which has now gone on for 3.5 years, the administration will say one thing, and then soon after the military leaders at hearings will say the opposite.

The military has been more honest and realistic. They don't have to be elected or spin the news to the voters.

These contradictions have been very consistent.

One of many example is the Cheney "last throes" statement, which was folowed by top military leaders 2 days later at hearing stating that they expect the insurgency to last 10-12 years.

I don't think the masses (public) notice this very much.

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 01:48 PM

^That's because the public and the administration's cheerleaders are quite mentally challenged.

**Storekeeper** · 12-09-2006, 01:50 PM

2 more years ... 2 more years ... 2 more years

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

2 more years ... 2 more years ... 2 more years

I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure.

As the recent Iraqi Parliamentary speaker said, the current Iraqi government probably has about 6 months to see if it will make it or not. The recent Sunni rejection of some federalization measure is a sign that the fracture may not be mended.

Surasak:

^That's because the public and the administration's cheerleaders are quite mentally challenged.

I think their statements and responses to questions are a bit strange. Especially the recent interview on the airplane with that ABC reporter.

Anyone see that?

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 02:01 PM

Maybe it's hard to answer questions a: if you don't know the answer, or b: you aren't willing to answer. Maybe the chaos extends to the highest levels.

I'm a bit disturbed by Cheney's remarks that we would have invaded regardless.

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by surasak

Maybe it's hard to answer questions a: if you don't know the answer, or b: you aren't willing to answer. Maybe the chaos extends to the highest levels.

I'm a bit disturbed by Cheney's remarks that we would have invaded regardless.

Cheney had met with top Enron officials and mapped out the oil in Iraq in the 1990s.

These documents were released after the Enron bankrupcy forced supbenoas on all of its documents.

The plan to attack Iraq goes back to the early 90s.

Wolfawitz was meeting with military officals and political officials back then.

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 02:12 PM

And now they're reaping great rewards due to 9-11.

I suppose it couldn't have possibly fallen in their lap any better.

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 07:49 PM

Here is a link to an article that highlights the huge divisions between the Sunnis and Shiites. And this is one of the reasons why I don't think the Nouri Al-Maliki government will be able to quell the Sunni groups (and other groups).

"Everyone is just taking sides to prepare for a big civil war," said Adnan Abdul Kareem Enad, manager of Sot al-Jamayaa, a radio station

Entire Article on dating, broken engagements, and marriages between Shiites and Sunnis:

Entire: WP: Mixed couples face danger in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq - MSNBC.com

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 07:53 PM

Marine calls situation in Anbar province dire

U.S. military can do little to secure region in western Iraq

By Thomas E. Ricks

Updated: 12:59 a.m. PT Sept 11, 2006

The chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps in Iraq recently filed an unusual secret report concluding that the prospects for securing that country's western al Anbar province are dim and that there is almost nothing the U.S. military can do to improve the political and social situation there, said several military officers and intelligence officials familiar with its contents.

The officials described Col. Pete Devlin's classified assessment of the dire state of Anbar as the first time that a senior U.S. military officer has filed so negative a report from Iraq.

One Army officer summarized it as arguing that in Anbar province, "We haven't been defeated militarily but we have been defeated politically -- and that's where wars are won and lost."

Entire: WP: Anbar situation called dire - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 08:42 PM

^ What do you think about the article I posted.

1. The Shiite and Sunni rift which is deep.

2. The Marine report on the Al-Anbar province.

Little lost for words, are we mate?

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 08:53 PM

^^

Photo of military hardware: free.
Illegal copy of Photoshop: free.
10 seconds of your time to fabricate some silly phrase: free.

INABILITY to spell all the words correctly: priceless.

For everyone else, there's Intelligence™

**barbaro** · 12-09-2006, 08:56 PM

Photos and pics in the "Issues" thread are OK once in a while.

But unless they are accompanied by sincere comments or articles related to topic, photos can be considered off-topic if used frequently.

**man with no head** · 12-09-2006, 09:16 PM

...or someone with a college education whose native language is English.

It just seems to me that all credibility is shot with one of those posters when something as benign as 'receive' is spelled wrong.

It also seems to be a problem with right-wing propaganda. That's the second one I've caught from you in as many weeks

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