Thread: The God Delusion

Originally Posted by chitown

I saw an offer posted to get you the book if you were interested, but it seems they thought you were not wanting to hear both sides so it was retracted!!

Yep that was me and the offer still stands to buy and post nooners a book. I just wanted to do a check online about the book you mentioned chitown before I offer to buy that one hence the edit.

Originally Posted by chitown

Scientist are 50 / 50 on the matter of carbon dating accuracy.

Anyone claim it stops at around 10.000 years, or what exactly is in question?

I have no idea what chi is on about regarding bibles dates and stuff.

i find it all most odd and not a little amusing.

curious memock and chitown.... if you'd been born in Kabul, what religion do you think you'd be?

also, since God is all goodness and light and we are surrounded by His glory, in your eyes, how does this square with Islam?

Originally Posted by spiff

Originally Posted by MeMock

I can find thousands of scientist who can date the earth to say 50,000 years.

This, even if it were true, is still much older than the bible claims.

I picked a year, any year, change it to 10,000 if you want - you missed my point.

Reading "The God Delusion" convinced me there was no god. No god could ever allow such a tedious book to be written.

Yes, Richard, we get it. Actually, it's rather like TD, in that there's too much of it to be of interest.

Was that a yes or no to a book nooners? You seem to have gone a bit quiet on that

There is absolutely no difference between one having faith that there is no G_D one one who believes in him.

Living in a Buddhist country with everyday emphasis on the kreng jai / mai pen rai attitude ain't taught you much...?

shouldn't they be a distinction between God and Religion ?

what is the real definition of Atheist ? is it not to believe in God or not believe in a Religion ?

Anyway, were all descendants of an alien species, so it doesn't really matter

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

There is absolutely no difference between one having faith that there is no G_D one one who believes in him.

of course there is.

one is based on observation, science and reason, the other is based on blind faith and delusion.

one causes no harm, the other is responsible for every massacre, war for the past millenium.

and what make us think that there is only ONE god ? why not more than ONE ? could it be that the Aliens have a god too ? so one god for human, and another for the Aliens ?

Originally Posted by MeMock

I picked a year, any year, change it to 10,000 if you want - you missed my point.

Ok then, show one scientist who (as a scientist) places the age of the earth close to what the bible claims.

Or on which scale are the discrepencies? Millions, maybe billions, rather than thousands of years?

There is also the Dimension question, as gods do not live in our dimension,

apparently the God particle theory tells us that God lives in the 11+1 dimension,

so technically God does exist

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

go on then butterfly.

enlighten us with your alien theory.

See above ^^^^

30 to go for another 100

There is also the Dimension question, as gods do not live in our dimension,

apparently the God particle theory tells us that God lives in the 11+1 dimension,

so technically God does exist

again....

What religion would you xtian guys have irrational faith in if you'd been born in Kabul or Tehran?

CMN, you are confusing God with Religion for Christ Sake !!!

While I'm pretty sure there's at least one G_D, I do know for certain there's a Jesus Christ. Saw him one time along with his Holy Host while pretty fried on some dynamite Laguna Beach Sunshine.

One of my more memorable times...

If you look at the causality theory of the early philosophers, we could conclude that God is actually the big bang, or a succession of big bang, hence he is the universe, at least an instance of universe

in conclusion, god is a succession of gods

Originally Posted by Bugs

Originally Posted by watterinja

You only need look around you to see that the universe was designed by a superior being. Christians call Him the Creator. The level of intricate detail & perfection could never be attributed to pure statistical chance - it is there by design.

The level of intricate detail & perfection?
Maybe you need to take a look around in nature, now and in the past. Rarely in nature does one come across anything close to perfection. In fact one of the things that they teach you first when learning how to camouflage things is to basically “make it messy” because nature is messy – no straight lines, etc.

As for detail – it’s not like there was a loud bang, a bit of lighting, a puff of smoke and then there was a frog. Another bang, another bit of lighting, and some more smoke, and boom there was a snake, etc, etc. It has taken millions and millions of years, and million and millions of changes before the ‘”frog” of the past became the “frog” of today.

I would agree the chances are pretty steep that the world could be created in the level of detail that exists today in a short period of time. But that did not happen.

And the changes the “frog” of the past went thru were not random nor by chance. The thing that was to become a frog changed, and changed, and changed, over the millions of years not by chance, but because the traits that remained were the best traits for that particular organism to maintain to get the most out of the environment it was in at the time – had very little to do with chance.

I really do get tired of folks who think the only alternatives are chance on the one hand, and intelligent design on the other. Things have ended up the way they are because of evolution/ natural selection – which has very little to do with chance or intelligent design.

An easy way to think of this as pointed out by Dawkins is to picture a mountaintop with a shear cliff on one side and a very gradual slope on the other side. Too many times theists point to the mountaintop from the base of the cliff and say there is no way for us to get from here to there so there must be a god. The problem is one does not have to go up the shear cliff to reach the top of the mountain – they can take the much easier path up the gradual slope. It takes much, much longer, but it can be done. And that is IMHO how things got to be there way they are – natural selection is the gradual slope that has taken millions and millions of years to climb.

Evolution's a pretty obvious concept, and the creationists miss a trick here. Rather than droning on about ID or other such palpable nonsense, they should focus on the physical act of creation itself: is it possible for something (everything) to come from nothing? I would argue no, ergo there was a moment of creation and therefore a god.

I really cannot accept the concepts of heaven and hell etc, however - I am far more interested in the meaning of life itself. I am convinced there are no forms of life other than that which exists on our own planet, and it is my contention that the meaning of life is for human beings to use the tools we have been given in order to populate the wider universe. Then we'll win a prize or something.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

If you look at the causality theory of the early philosophers, we could conclude that God is actually the big bang, or a succession of big bang, hence he is the universe, at least an instance of universe

i think people created God to give themselves a purpose.

people don't like to think that at the end of the day, this is all for nothing and then we just die.

i guess even an atheist that doesn't believe in any form of afterlife could be all romantic and say that you will have everlasting life through your children and their children and so on, but if the scientists are right, then at some point in a few billion years (that's 17 years in christian terms), the sun is going to fade and die along with everything else and that'll be it.

[QUOTE=spiff;863630]

Originally Posted by MeMock

Ok then, show one scientist who (as a scientist) places the age of the earth close to what the bible claims.

About AiG: President Ken Ham

Dr. Monty White

Well, we'll all find out at the end of 2012 won't we?
That's when the Mayan calandar stops and I think Nostrodomus had a thing or two to say about the end right around that time...