Thread: Biden-Palin debate: gaffe potential?

^ I like that fancy crayon colouring there, Tex. Ya, and it will be Chicago slime balls in exec positions all over the WH.

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

who is Joe sixpack??

Not Joe Biden.

The noms were both in debate training school for several days with stand-ins (a chick congesswoman for Biden, I think) for their opponents. Biden has more political savvy, which is to be expected for his lifetime in office. Palin was not too shabby, IMO.

Originally Posted by flash

Originally Posted by nidhogg

I am a Brit (and most likely older than you by the way), and so have no real horse in the race

Jet is Canadian and has no horse in the race either.

Even more bizzare that she takes it so, well, personally, I suppose is the best word I can think of. The extreme positions taken by the proponents of each side would be quite amusing if it were not so serious, and more amusing still is the rapid villification of anyone who expresses a contrarian view.

I am interested in whats going on (lets be honest, who get elected in USA is MUCH more likely to have a significant world impact than who gets elected in UK for example), and think I can look at the candidates withoutout any preconceived bias.

McCain comes across as a person with a deep sense of personal integrity. I think he belives what he says, and would, by and large seek to honour his commitments (as much as any politican can or does). His reputed temper and rashness are a cause for concern. He is the sort of person who would "charge up san quentin hill" (if I got my analogy right) and bugger the consequences.

Obama come across as way more intellectual. I personally like a person who thinks a little bit before opening his mouth, but, as many feel, there is a distinct lack of substance. He may well grow into the position if he gets the chance and be a great US president, or he may well prove to be all flash and no substance.

Biden is smoooooooth. A well polished politician, a wheeler dealer, fix it man. probably ideal as a VP, but hopefully never a president. Too much snake oil salesman in him.

Palin. At the risk of incuring Jets wrath again, Palin is out of her depth. It was painfully evident against Biden. Maybe with 8 or so years of grooming she could be up there, but frankly, comparison with, for example Hillary Clinton make Palin look like a wind up barbie doll.


OK - reds from both sides I expect. So be it. But, the funny thing is that the election wont be decided by the staunch supporters of eitehr side. it will be people who think as I do, that the candidates are a mixed bunch, who will decided the outcome. God bless America.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Biden still wants to be president.

If Biden were the Democratic presidential nominee, he'd be ahead of McCain by 15% points and on his way to a landslide victory. The trouble with the primary system is that it favors the Democrats' liberal activists, not the best candidate. Biden is an establishment Democrat, a polished and intelligent guy with good people skills, very acceptable to a mainstream that is fed up with Republican rule. The Bush-Cheney regime has ruined the Republican brand, even for many Americans with conservative sentiments.

Originally Posted by floorpotato

If Biden were the Democratic presidential nominee, he'd be ahead of McCain by 15% points and on his way to a landslide victory.

Biden's propensity for putting his foot in his mouth makes this scenario highly unlikely.

I wonder why no one is making more of his Hezbolah/Lebanon gaffe in the debate?

He didn't know Herbert Hoover was President during the great depression.
He didn't know television wasn't widely distributed prior to 1935.

He's a pompous idiot career politician.

I'd agree with the 15% . . . no-one is gaffe-proof and when you've given over 100 interviews in 120 days then it's pretty much a given that the odd faux-pas will slip in.

Imagine if Palin had given more than her three (?) interviews . . . thw world would have had cannon-fodder for decades.

I think he is being harshly judged, particularly because Palin is such an empty shell . . .

McCain? Yes, prior to his cuddling up to the far-right, a good man, but not really a maverick.

Originally Posted by panama hat

Imagine if Palin had given more than her three (?) interviews . . . thw world would have had cannon-fodder for decades.
.

It will be interesting how the unedited interviews play.

Likely better than the heavily edited Gibson/Couric interviews.

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Likely better than the heavily edited Gibson/Couric interviews.

True, they didn't show half the stupidity she came out with.

Here's a linguists take. I don't know if he's biased or not. Who knows? Interesting, however:

Debate analysis: Palin spoke at 10th-grade level, Biden at eight


(CNN) -- An analysis carried out by a language monitoring service said Friday that Gov. Sarah Palin spoke at a more than ninth-grade level and Sen. Joseph Biden spoke at a nearly eighth-grade level in Thursday night's debate between the vice presidential candidates.
Sen. Joe Biden used 5,492 words during the debate; Gov. Sarah Palin used 5,235.

The analysis by the Austin, Texas-based Global Language Monitor said Palin, governor of Alaska and the GOP vice presidential nominee, used the passive voice in 8 percent of her sentences, far more than the 5 percent used by the Democratic senator from Delaware.
The analysis noted that the "passive voice can be used to deflect responsibility; Biden used active voice when referring to [Vice President Dick] Cheney and [President] Bush; Palin countered with passive deflections."

"It obscures the doer of the action," said Language Monitor President Paul Payack, an independent with no political affiliation.

The two candidates were nearly even in total number of words spoken. The normally voluble Biden restrained his tendency to ramble by uttering just 5,492 words during the 90-minute debate, versus 5,235 for Palin, Payack said.

In last week's debate between Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain, Obama spoke 8,068 words during the 90-minute event, while McCain spoke 7,150, Payack said.

Full debate transcript

Thursday night's debate between the vice presidential candidates "was more collegial, thinking out loud as opposed to just hammering points," Payack said in trying to explain the difference. "It was a much calmer style."

His analysis ranked the candidates' speech on several other levels, too. Here's the breakdown:

Grade level: Biden, 7.8; Palin, 9.5 (Newspapers are typically written to a sixth-grade reading level.)

Sentences per paragraph: statistically tied at 2.7 for Biden and 2.6 for Palin.
Letters per word: tied at 4.4.

Ease of reading: Biden, 66.7 (with 100 being the easiest to read or hear), versus 62.4 for Palin.

The analysis said Abraham Lincoln spoke at an 11th-grade level during his seven debates in 1858 against incumbent Stephen A. Douglas in their race for a Senate seat from Illinois.

But higher grade level doesn't necessarily mean better sentence, Payack said. He pointed to Palin's second-to-last sentence in the debate, which the formula put at a grade level of 18.3:

"What I would do, also, if that were ever to happen, though, is to continue the good work he is so committed to of putting government back on the side of the people and get rid of the greed and corruption on Wall Street and in Washington," Palin said.

"When she said it, it sounded good, but on paper it's a completely different animal," Payack said. "It's like, what is that?"

But Biden had his own challenging moments, such as this 32-word gem, rated grade 15.6: "The middle class under John McCain's tax proposal, 100 million families, middle-class families, households to be precise, they got not a single change; they got not a single break in taxes."

Payack praised the usually longer-winded Biden for showing restraint here. "In a typical Joe Biden thing, this sentence would serve as a launching point to even more complex and convoluted statements. Last night, he was particularly reserved, and you only had to be a college graduate to decipher it, according to the readability statistics."

Debate analysis: Palin spoke at 10th-grade level, Biden at eighth - CNN.com