Ukraine war mega thread

[sabang]

^ Absolutely required viewing. Mad if you don't. Or maybe, just choose to be ignorant and stupid.

[Iceman123]

Russian missile strikes knock out power in Kyiv region | Reuters

Time for sensible negotiations to bring this whole saga to an end

[baldrick]

Those people from the Donbass, who have been fighting for their self determination

igor girkin ?

[Loy Toy]

Russian missile strikes knock out power in Kyiv region | Reuters

Time for sensible negotiations to bring this whole saga to an end

There will be no sensible negotiations whilst both Putin and Zelensky are at the table.

If they were both to step away something positive may happen.

[russellsimpson]

^It may be easier for Zelensky to step away. Putin stepping ahead would be a monumental task, it's not gpoing to happen. A sowball entering hell would have a much better chance. I'm not familiar with anyone who could slip into Zelenski's job. A panel of, for example, five players could represnet Ukraine. Say rhe USA,
Germany as a regional power, Turkie as the neutral power, Canada would be the fourth advocate. Number fiver I have no suggestion for.

[Norton]

Russian missile strikes knock out power in Kyiv region | Reuters

Time for sensible negotiations to bring this whole saga to an end

Not time yet. When the Ukraine has recaptured all eastern territories seems to me talks between Ukraine and Russia are likely.

There will be no sensible negotiations whilst both Putin and Zelensky are at the table.

Doubt either of them would be directly involved in negotiations. Each would assign a group of folks as their negotiation teams. End of the day as both are heads of state, they will be the guys that sign off on the deal. Expect a final agreement which includes the Crimea will be done via incremental agreements which means this war will continue for a long time.

[misskit]

Bodies near Makiivka


What is known about the execution of Russian servicemen who surrendered to Ukraine and why Kyiv’s intention to launch a probe should be welcomed

Ukraine has vowed to investigate the events pictured in a video shot near the village of Makiivka and get to the bottom of the deaths of 12 Russian soldiers who were shot when 10 of them dropped to the ground to surrender, while one other opened fire at Ukrainian soldiers.


Let’s start with what we know today.

MORE Новая газета Европа

[pickel]

Russian missile strikes knock out power in Kyiv region | Reuters

Time for sensible negotiations to bring this whole saga to an end

Time for the West to give Ukraine longer range missiles and Russia a taste of its own medicine.

If Zelensky agreed to cede land to Russia for peace, the Ukrainian people would quickly oust him.

[sabang]

When the Ukraine has recaptured all eastern territories

Seems to me that ain't going to happen. Donbass- p'ffft, Mariupol, no way- the local population in both cases is near totally opposed to the Ukrainian forces. So what then? I reckon peace feelers need to be put out much sooner- and it may well be happening behind the scenes. This should not be treated as a game of chess, with ukraine and ukrainians as the pawns. Can't verify obviously, but I read over 50% of Ukraine, including Kiev, lacks power now. Winter beckons.

^ Never ending escalation will only end in bankruptcy, and the ever escalating threat of nuclear war. We are already experiencing shortage in the West of our military arsenals. This cannot go on forever. It's a truly negative sum game.

[pickel]

^
You're deluded.

[sabang]

Your 'analysis' is based on wishful thinking, only. Which is exactly what they want, because you are footing the bill.

[harrybarracuda]

^ Absolutely required viewing. Mad if you don't. Or maybe, just choose to be ignorant and stupid.

Better still, understand that Pilger will now suck up to anyone as long as he can hate the US, and choose to ignore his petty pensioner drivel like the rest of the shit sabang posts. Or as David Hutt refers to his recent work: "a triumvirate of narcissism, ignorance, and propaganda".

Remember when he got all uppity because Iran was accused of shooting down a Ukrainian airliner?

Yes, that one.

[harrybarracuda]

Russian missile strikes knock out power in Kyiv region | Reuters

Time for sensible negotiations to bring this whole saga to an end

I agree.

Negotiation Point 1:

Fuck off back to Russia you murderous, war criminal.

[sabang]

Point 2:- certain parts of what you formerly thought of as Ukraine, are now part of Russia.

[Norton]

Seems to me that ain't going to happen

On this we need to agree to disagree. Time will tell but once all Russian forces and their proxy mercinaries are gone, we will see just how many folks truely want to be Russian citizens.

[Shutree]

On this we need to agree to disagree. Time will tell but once all Russian forces and their proxy mercinaries are gone, we will see just how many folks truely want to be Russian citizens.

It will still be an unfair assessment because the Russians forcibly removed tens of thousands of Ukranians to remote parts of Russia. Another war crime against civilians. No doubt a larger share of those left behind are pro-Russian. There should be an assessment only after all those missing Ukranians are returned home.

[Norton]

There should be an assessment only after all those missing Ukranians are returned home.

Agree. All part of negotiations.

[harrybarracuda]

Point 2:- certain parts of what you formerly thought of as Ukraine, are now part of Russia.

No they're not. They are occupied illegally by an invader. Are you stupid?

[harrybarracuda]

It amazes me how some people have a such a stunning lack of historical knowledge that they don't understand why you should not let murderous dictators invade their neighbours and get away with it. They consider it a green light to continue this barbaric behaviour.

[pickel]

Your 'analysis' is based on wishful thinking, only.

Nope, it's not. But, for sure, yours is based on an authoritarian government's tried, tested, and false strategy of propaganda.

Which is exactly what they want, because you are footing the bill.

Lend-Lease. Russia will eventually be footing this bill. Just like the last time a fascist tried to storm his way through Europe. If the Russian people stop Putin now, they'll pay less than the Germans.

[bsnub]

Seems to me that ain't going to happen.

Donbass- p'ffft, Mariupol, no way- the local population in both cases is near totally opposed to the Ukrainian forces.

Spewing garbage as always. Just wait until the ground freezes. You will once AGAIN be eating your words. You would think that you learned your lesson by now.

Sadly you suffer from Dunning-Kruger.

certain parts of what you formerly thought of as Ukraine, are now part of Russia.

Like Kherson?

[HermantheGerman]

Point 2:- certain parts of what you formerly thought of as Ukraine, are now part of Russia.

Point 3:- certain parts of what you formerly thought of as Soviet Union, are now independent.
Point 4:- certain parts of what you now call Russia, will become independent.

Bottom line is....Russia is falling apart

[HermantheGerman]

Unlike you, most of us waited for proof on the missile that landed in Ukraine. Again unlike you, many of us seek out independent news sources and discount ones we find that are biased. Unlike you we certainly do not look at news sites that are obligated to push the government narrative. Unlike you, many of us apply objective reasoning to a news source and if its' validity is in doubt whether pro ukrainian or pro russian discount it and look for more unbiased news sources. I could name many pro Ukrainian news sources I do not watch due to their bias.
Your publishing of Putins narrative that there was a coup in Ukraine is blatantly false. It was a mass protest by the people when a corrupt President (so corrupt he fled the country to avoid prosecution) knowing he would eventually be exposed as such by going down the euro path, decided to side with Putin, who cares nothing about corruption or oppression, only loyalty to himself, AKA Lukashenko, Assad etc.
You certainly ignore the saying "You can learn much about a man by the company he keeps". In any case the democratic election of Zelensky proved any idea of an illegitimate government was patently false. You have never mentioned the blatant bombing of civilian infrastructure such as power and water, let alone civilian shopping centres and civilian apartment buildings and homes all recognised as war crimes. You mention the false accusation of the missile being russian but never once take the invaders to task for their lies and propaganda. You criticise other posters for bias but yet do not recognise your own. I do find it mystifying that you continue to post on this thread where only ohoh agrees with you. This should be a red flag to any normal intelligent human being that it is rare that the overwhelming number of people and countries of the world are all wrong but somehow you are right.
If I were you I would apply to be campaign manager of Trumps next election bid. You will fit right in with his rigged election narrative and all news other than Fox is fake.

I just had the urge to re-post this. I think Sabong did not read it or understand. Are these letters big enough for you now?

[OhOh]

Military operation in Ukraine
24 Nov, 06:48

Russia to continue reducing Kiev’s military potential until it takes realistic stance

"One of the goals of the special military operation is to undermine the Ukrainian army’s combat capabilities," Russian Permanent Representative to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya said.

UNITED NATIONS, November 24. /TASS/.

"Russia will continue actions to impair Ukraine’s military potential until Kiev takes a realistic position at talks, Russian Permanent Representative to the United Nations Vasily Nebenzya said on Wednesday.

According to the Russian diplomat, Russian forces are targeting "Ukraine’s infrastructure facilities in response to flooding that country with Western weapons and the reckless calls on Kiev to defeat Russia."

"One of the goals of the special military operation is to undermine the Ukrainian army’s combat capabilities. And it will be attained to military means until the Kiev regime takes a realistic position, which will make it possible to discuss and try to settle those problems, which have prompted us to launch the special military operation," he said at a UN Security Council meeting.

"So far, what we hear from Mr. Zelensky and his allies cannot be interpreted as readiness for peace but is rather a language of reckless threats and ultimatums. Kiev’s Western sponsors only encourage such an irresponsible course, since they are interested in a war on the Ukrainian territory until the last Ukrainian as it makes its possible for their defense sector to derive colossal profit and test NATO weapons," Nebenzya said. "This way, Western countries are seeking to establish their geopolitical hegemony at the expense of the lives ordinary Ukrainians."

On October 4, Zelensky endorsed Ukraine’s Security and Defense Council resolution on the impossibility of talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin. On October 31, the Russian leader said that he saw no possibility of discussing any agreements with Ukraine as long as it shows no willingness to do that.

However, Putin stressed, Moscow’s good will for talks is unchanged.

On February 24, Putin launched a special military operation in Ukraine in response to a request for help from the heads of the Donbass republics.

After that, the West imposed sweeping sanctions against Russia and beefed up arms supplies to the Kiev regime worth tens of billions of dollars."

Russia to continue reducing Kiev’s military potential until it takes realistic stance - Russian Politics & Diplomacy - TASS

[OhOh]

some people have a such a stunning lack of historical knowledge that they don't understand

Actual, real, legal history.

invade their neighbours and get away with it.

No Russian invasion took place.

As a previously historical question, legal opinion and the UNGA adopted resolution confirmed.

On February 24, Putin launched a special military operation in Ukraine in response to a request for help from the heads of the Donbass republics.

The United Nations General Assembly requested The International Court of Justice to decide on that exact action utilsed by Kosovo.

Accordance with international law of the unilateral declaration of independence in respect of Kosovo

"On 8 October 2008 (resolution 63/3), the General Assembly decided to ask the Court to render an advisory opinion on the following question :

“Is the unilateral declaration of independence by the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government of Kosovo in accordance with international law?"

The Court concluded that the declaration of independence did not violate resolution 1244 for two reasons.

First, it emphasized the fact that the two instruments “operate on a different level” : resolution 1244 was silent on the final status of Kosovo, whereas the declaration of independence was an attempt to finally determine that status.

Second, it noted that resolution 1244 imposed only very limited obligations on non-State actors, none of which entailed any prohibition of a declaration of independence.

Finally, in view of its conclusion that the declaration of independence did not emanate from the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government of Kosovo, the Court held that its authors were not bound by the Constitutional Framework established under resolution 1244, and thus that the declaration of independence did not violate that framework.

Consequently, the Court concluded that the adoption of the declaration of independence had not violated any applicable rule of international law.

On 9 September 2010, the General Assembly adopted a resolution in which it acknowledged the content of the advisory opinion of the Court rendered in response to its request (resolution 64/298)."

Latest developments | Accordance with international law of the unilateral declaration of independence in respect of Kosovo | International Court of Justice

Any disagreement with the UNGA may be address to them.