Ukraine war mega thread

[bsnub]

Moscow blocked access to a Ukrainian website for Russian soldiers who want to surrender after it was bombarded with requests


The Russian government on Sunday banned users nationwide from accessing a Ukrainian website that encourages Russian military members to surrender.

Since October 4, a site called Hochu Zhit has received more than 2,000 requests from members of the Russian military to abandon their posts and voluntarily surrender to Ukrainian forces, the Kyiv Independent reported.

Translated from Russian, Hochu Zhit means "I want to live." The Ukrainian state-run website promises to adhere to Geneva conventions for the treatment of prisoners of war and offers surrendering Russian military members three meals a day, legal support, and medical attention if they apply to surrender via the site or its affiliated hotline.

The hotline was first announced on September 19 by Ukraine's Ministry of Defense, just two days before Russian President Vladimir Putin announced the mobilization of 300,000 military reservists — many of whom have been drafted — to the battlefield.

On Sunday, The Roskomsvoboda Project, a non-governmental Russian anti-censorship organization, reported that access to the site had been blocked under the authority of the Russian Prosecutor General's Office.

The Russian Prosecutor General, a position currently held by Putin-nominated Igor Krasnov, heads the country's court system, akin to United States Attorney General Merrick Garland.

"The project was blocked twice… The first time was by a "mask" when access to all domains and subdomains was restricted, the second was just the entire website," Russian newspaper Kommersant reported the Roskomsvoboda Project said of the blocked site.

The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine, which runs the Hochu Zhit website, and the Government of the Russian Federation did not immediately respond to Insider's requests for comment.

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukra...russia-2022-10

[panama hat]

Putin's mobilisation chief found dead under 'suspicious circumstances'

The person in control of Vladimir Putin's disastrous mobilisation effort in Ukraine has been discovered dead under "suspicious" circumstances.
Lt. Col. Roman Malyk (49), a military commissar, was found dead at his residence in a village in the Primorsky region of Russia.

Putin's mobilisation chief found dead under 'suspicious circumstances' - World News


Trying to give a flying fuck . . . nah.

[harrybarracuda]

Were the suspicious circumstances an open window on a high floor I wonder?

[klong toey]

Friend of ours in Kyiv filmed this gong overhead this morning.
https://youtube.com/shorts/RwQ0KAx2zAg

[helge]

Pro-Ukrainian NAFO troll chief outed as ‘Nazi’

Oh dear

Sadly, sabang has fallen into the same category as OhOh these days.

I just find myself seeing his name, skimming the title of whatever latest nonsense he's copied and pasted and then moving on to the next poster in the thread.

This one was safe to read

The post above yours is straight from Russian state propaganda

Ofcourse it is.

They have every interest in making this known about your fellow 'fella'.

Tuff shit. Live with it

and nothing more than horseshit.

Looks real to me

https://twitter.com/Kama_Kamilia/sta...75090196025344


This is what happens when you and others haven't got any propaganda "filter" what so ever.

'Filter'= independent thoughts

[sabang]

On October 16, the AFU shelled the Russian city of Belgorod. After massive shelling on the morning, Ukrainian forces resumed attacks on the afternoon. Russian Air Defense forces intercepted most of the targets, but two explosions were recorded near the Belgorod airport.

Military Watch Magazine reported that Russian air defence means in Belgorod have ”reportedly broken a world record for the longest ranged surface to air kills”.
One of the attacks on the city was carried out by a pair of Ukrainian combat aircraft which reached the Russian border at an extremely low altitude. Having then gained altitude, they shot at their target and headed towards the airfield. However, they failed to reach it. They fired on by Russian surface to air missile batteries, specifically an S-300V4 system. Both planes were shot down over the Poltava region.

Click to see the full-size map

The aircraft in question were Ukrainian Su-27 and Su-24, which are thought to be some of the last of these relatively scarce and heavyweight classes operational after over six months of war.

The missile system neutralised both aircraft at extreme ranges of 217km, surpassing the 150km range kill previously recorded by a Russian S-400 system against a Ukrainian Su-27 over Kiev in March, with this achieved despite the Su-27’s high manoeuvrability and impressive flight performance designed to allow it to effectively evade standoff missile attacks. – Military Watch writes.

Despite their high maneuverability, the fighters could not get away from the Russian missiles.

The S-300V4 has access to a range of missiles including the 40N6 which has a 400km range and a high hypersonic speed exceeding Mach 14. Military Watch supposed that the 40N6 may have been used, “since the missile has an entirely unique trajectory and sensor suite that are particularly well optimised to engaging very low altitude targets over the horizon”.

The 40N6 can engage targets as low as 5 metres off the ground even at 400km distances, and climbs into space before descending to impact providing its onboard radar with greater coverage and a totally unrivalled performance at ranges over 250km. The missile has double the range of its top Western competitors, and is deployed by both Chinese and Russian S-400 units while also being compatible with the S-300V4. – the report reads.

It was for years the world’s longest ranged anti aircraft capable ground launched missile, although new missiles integrated onto the S-500 system surpassed it. The kill against a Su-27 reflects Russia’s overwhelming superiority in anti aircraft capabilities, the report concludes.

Russian S-300V4 Broke World Record For The Longest Ranged Surface To Air Kills - Military WatchSouth Front

War Porn!

[sabang]

here are three good pieces about the war in Ukraine:

• A war Russia set to win - MK Bhadrakumar / Tribune India

> Plainly put, the Europeans have been nicely played by the Americans. India should take note of the US’ sense of entitlement. Basically, the Biden administration created a contrived energy crisis whose real aim is war profiteering.
...
India should expect the defeat of the US and NATO, which completes the transition to a multipolar world order. <

• Why the US must press for a ceasefire in Ukraine - Jack F. Matlock Jr. / Responsible Statecraft

> Increasingly, European publics are likely to blame the United States for policies that fuel inflation and bring on economic recession, especially as their currencies weaken against the dollar. The U.S. sanctions on Russia will be seen by many as self-serving attempts to dominate Western Europe.A new iron curtain is now being imposed on Russia — this time by Western policy — even as the United States announces more measures to confront and “contain” an assertive China. This will result, inevitably, in more cooperation between Russia and China. Also, the increasing use of economic sanctions to achieve political purposes will encounter push-back with a greater volume of international trade conducted in national currencies other than the U.S. dollar.

As Europe is weakened and more countries suffer from U.S. sanctions, coalitions to resist U.S. dominance will flourish.

Geopolitical competition will take precedence over action to deal with common problems, even as international conflict intensifies them.

What all the parties to the conflict in Ukraine seem to have forgotten is that the future of mankind will not be determined by where international borders are drawn — these have never been static in history and doubtless will continue to change from time to time. The future of mankind will be determined by whether nations learn to settle their differences peacefully. <

• The Neocons and the Woke Left Are Joining Hands and Leading Us to Woke War III | Opinion - David Sacks / Newsweek

> What makes the "I stand with Ukraine" version of the Twitter mob unique is that it brings together two forces that used to be sworn enemies of one another—the woke Left and the neoconservative Right. It turns out they share many of the same loathsome ideological and personality traits, and have a similar "slash and burn" approach to political engagement. It's a new political marriage.
...
This shift is disorienting, but on a purely tactical level, it makes a certain amount of sense. Neocons invented the cancellation game before there was even a Twitter board on which to play it. Neocons arrogantly dismiss the other side's point of view as argued in bad faith and not worth considering, and label anyone who dares question the cause as a heretic or traitor.
...
Warping the debate in this way allows delusional and contradictory thinking to go unchallenged. Thus, we get the argument that Putin is a madman who will kill indiscriminately to achieve his aims—but he is also somehow definitely bluffing about using nuclear weapons. And he's only using that bluff because he's losing the war—but if he's not stopped in Ukraine, he will go on to conquer the rest of Europe. Putin's regime must fall because he has killed or jailed all the liberal reformers and yoked himself to a hardline Far Right, but somehow he will be replaced by a liberal reformer when his regime collapses.It's nonsensical, and a real debate would expose some of the delusions in this thinking. But we aren't allowed to have one.

As long as this woke-neocon alliance is allowed to set the terms of the debate, we will continue to see a one-way ratchet toward greater and more dangerous escalation of this conflict. <

Moon of Alabama

[bsnub]

This is what happens when you and others haven't got any propaganda "filter" what so ever.

'Filter'= independent thoughts

Your irony meter just exploded.

Moon of Alabama

This propaganda Heldge. You could do with some independent thought.

Russian Air Defense forces intercepted most of the targets, but two explosions were recorded near the Belgorod airport.

That is more horseshit. Those explosions were harm missiles destroying those S-300's. Your Russian sources always lie like this after they got hammered.

[bsnub]

SEADs OF DESTRUCTION: UKR sortied more than 30 aviation strike missions on 16 OCT. UKR fighters equipped with NATO supplied HARM missiles conducted Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD) missions which destroyed six RU air defense and surface to air missile complexes.

Attachment 93949

[sabang]

The noose tightens. This is just the start of a shaping operation. More humiliation is inbound in a few days.

Still waiting.

Things seem to have, erm, stalled.

[misskit]

Klong Tory’s friend recorded these


Ukraine war: Russia dive-bombs Kyiv with 'kamikaze' drones

Russia has hit Ukraine with a wave of attacks, dive-bombing the capital, Kyiv, with what appear to be Iranian-made "kamikaze" drones.


Critical infrastructure was hit in the Kyiv, Dnipro and Sumy regions, with electricity cut in hundreds of towns and villages, the government says.


At least eight people were killed, four in Kyiv and four in Sumy.


Calls have mounted for sanctions on Iran, which continues to deny supplying drones to the Russian military.


A week ago, the Ukrainian capital was hit by Russian missiles at rush hour, part of nationwide attacks which left 19 dead.


In the latest attack, starting at around 06:30 (03:30 GMT), 28 drones targeted the capital but only five hit targets, according to the Mayor, Vitaliy Klitschko.

The city reverberated to the rattle of gunfire as anti-aircraft batteries frantically tried to shoot them down. Video on social media appeared to show one interception.

MORE Ukraine war: Russia dive-bombs Kyiv with '&#39;'kamikaze'&#39;' drones - BBC News

[bsnub]

Still waiting.

Things seem to have, erm, stalled.

The same shit you said before the Ukrainians kicked off the Kharkiv offensive. Ukraine is once again in a news/media blackout, just like they were before said offensive. Nothing has stalled, the Ukrainians have been hammering Russian air defenses all over the country. Things are going to kick off shortly.

[pickel]

Pretty cool pic.

Deaths after fighter jet crashes into Russian building in Yeysk


Deaths after fighter jet crashes into Russian building in Yeysk | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

[sabang]

Things are going to kick off shortly.

Perhaps not in a way you hope for.

Anyway, always look forward to your next "putin his having his arse handed to him on a plate" meme. The original preceded the fall of Mariupol, Donetsk, Luhansk and so on.

Might Bakhmut be next? Or d'ya reckon Kherson?

[misskit]

108 Ukrainian women released from Russian captivity

On October 17, 2022, another prisoner swap took place between Ukraine and Russia, and a total of 108 Ukrainian women were released from Russian captivity.
The relevant statement was made by Head of the Office of the President of Ukraine Andriy Yermak on Telegram, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.


“Another large-scale prisoner swap has been carried out today. Especially emotional and truly special – we have freed 108 women from captivity. It was the first female-only exchange. Mothers and daughters, whose relatives were waiting for them, were held captive. Thirty-seven of those evacuated from the Azovstal Steelworks, 11 officers, 85 privates and sergeants,” Yermak wrote.

In his words, among them, there are 35 Ukrainian female defenders from the Armed Forces of Ukraine, 32 – from the Naval Forces, 12 – from the Territorial Defense Forces, eight – from the National Guard of Ukraine (including two from the Azov Regiment), five – from the Ukrainian State Special Transport Service, four – from the Ukrainian State Border Guard Service, and 12 civilians.


According to Yermak, some women were illegally detained in the CADLR (certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions) and imprisoned long before the Russian full-scale invasion started.


“People had been in jail since 2019 in the ‘pseudo-republics’ for an ‘extremely pro-Ukrainian position’, which was expressed in the delivery of humanitarian aid for orphaned children, fabricated ‘espionage’ and ‘terrorism’,” Yermak added.


Those who have been freed from Russian captivity will undergo a medical examination and rehabilitation.

108 Ukrainian women released from Russian captivity

[pickel]

Still waiting.

Things seem to have, erm, stalled.

You have more faith than the stooge gov't officials who have already evacuated the city. Perhaps you should be mobilized.

[bsnub]

Perhaps not in a way you hope for.

More of your fairy tail rainbow land.

Might Bakhmut be next? Or d'ya reckon Kherson?

I hope you do realize that Kherson will fall, all of Russia's appointed puppet leaders there have already fled to Crimea. Bakhmut has little strategic value for Russia because it no longer has any chance of taking Slovyansk, but they seem determined to pour wave after wave of troops into that meat grinder. It will not be falling anytime soon.

You never know what the clever Ukrainians will do next. That is the way they want it. Kherson, Svatove, or a new front in Zaporizhia, or all three? I hear Melitopol is nice this time of year.

[bsnub]

Deaths after fighter jet crashes into Russian building in Yeysk

In the background, you can see the cowardly Russian pilot ejected instead of steering his plane out of a populated area. Four died so that coward could live. Typical of Russians.

[misskit]

This is an interesting assessment in that it states why Ukraine must have certain areas to regain security from future Russian invasions. It is rather long so I will just post the link.

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, OCTOBER 16

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, October 16 | Institute for the Study of War

[misskit]

‘We’re making a snowman. Never mind it’s the summer, we have our orders.’ Political scientist Kirill Rogov on disappointment with Putin — among ordinary Russians and the ruling class alike


A shift of public opinion is underway in Russia, following the Russian-orchestrated pseudo-referendums, the annexation of Ukrainian territories, and finally mobilization in Russia itself. The last event in particular has shocked the public opinion. Now that 25 million Russians are facing the direct threat of being drafted, the prior consensus among people who once supported the war has fractured. New polling data suggests that the public may be on its way to consolidating in its disappointment with Vladimir Putin as a president. Meduza discussed the latest public-opinion data and its implications with Kirill Rogov, a Russian political scientist and founder of the Re: Russia analytical center, who gave an extended Russian-language interview about Putin’s crumbling image, ferment in the upper rungs of power, and what future scenarios are possible for Russia under these conditions. This article is a condensed version of Rogov’s analysis.


‘To have all of Russia bound by blood’


Based on recent studies, we can isolate three different factions within the mass of Russians who support the war.


The first of them can be described as the faction of “total war.” They think that the West cannot deal with Russia’s existence in principle. They believe that the West was getting ready for an offensive on Russia, and is now trying to destroy it by the hands of Ukraine.


Next, there is a “just war” faction, which thinks that this war is a matter of justice. Their idea is that the Russian and Russian-speaking residents of Eastern Ukraine were persecuted by the “nationalist Ukrainian government,” and that Russia has a duty to defend them. This narrative corresponds to the international doctrine of “responsibility to protect,” which justifies external interventions when there’s a threat of genocide, or some other humanitarian cause to intervene. This faction believes in a localized “special operation” which doesn’t entail a total war against the whole West.


The third faction are the “conformists.” These people would cancel the “special operation” retroactively, if only they could change the past. They’re not so sure about the arguments used to justify the war; they think that it could have been avoided. But since it’s happening anyway, they “support it,” since the leadership knows better. And, perhaps more often than not, they feel that it would be dangerous not to show their support. What they definitely don’t want is to confront the regime or its manufactured “majority” public opinion.

The Russian propaganda represents the first two factions best. If you turn on “60 Minutes,” the talk show run by Olga Skabeyeva, or Vladimir Solovyov’s show, everyone there will be shouting that Russia is at war with the entire “collective West” and NATO, and that we must all rise to defend the Fatherland. But, at the very same time, ordinary news programs on the main channels are talking about Russia’s highly localized and very careful “special operation,” conducted by our highly-professional armed forces to liberate our compatriots suffering under the nationalist Kyiv regime.


The general mobilization was a shock to the “just war” party and the “conformists” alike. It threatens the consensus that had been, until then, established if pushed down everyone’s throats. The change reflected immediately in the post-September 21 polls. Even the Public Opinion Fund (which mainly conducts polls for the Russian President’s Office) has registered this. Before mobilization, their question “What is the mood you notice most among the people around you?” was answered with the word “anxiety” just over 30 percent of the time. Following the mobilization decree, this answer doubled in frequency — people now mention “anxiety” 69 percent of the time.


The public is in shock from mobilization, but it has not yet worked out whom to blame. Putin, meanwhile, is an experienced manipulator of the public’s fears and other “mass emotions.” Presently, he is trying to expand the total-war faction at the expense of the moderates. Putin’s idea is to have all Russians bound together by the blood on their hands — to unite them as jointly culpable in the eyes of the world. In his criminal logic, people who lost their loved ones, friends, or relatives in the war, must join the party of revenge and total war. They must become involved and committed. Consider the contrast: at the beginning of the war, Putin was clearly getting ready for a 1945 “cosplay”: here we are, watching a victory parade. Instead, his rhetoric today reenacts 1941: enemy at the gates, Fatherland in peril, brothers and sisters “rise up one and all.”


But the shock of mobilization can do the opposite — and turn the two moderate factions away from supporting the war at all. Before the mobilization, the cost of resistance and protest was higher than the cost of conformity. Now, the reverse is true. It’s the future behavior of these former moderate war supporters — whose worldview has just been shattered — that will decide the future of public opinion in Russia.


What about the Russian ruling class?


Among the different factions within the Russian leadership — and even within Putin’s innermost circle — the “war party” is a definite minority. Few people watched the broadcast of the Security Council meeting that preceded Russia’s recognition of the “DNR” and “LNR” last February, triggering the war. The key speakers at that meeting were Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu, Security Council Secretary Nikolay Patrushev, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin, and Sergey Naryshkin, the director of foreign intelligence.


Putin asked them a question: “Americans don’t want to negotiate with us; talking to them is useless. Shall we move on to decisive actions, recognizing the LNR and DNR?” Every single one of those five speakers said that the president is right, but we could try again, and give the West another chance. This got Putin very nervous, so he began “trolling” Naryshkin. Then Lavrov and Shoigu piped up again — and suddenly they had a different idea.


It’s Putin who dragged the elites, and the people, into the war — he simply put everyone before the fact. And Elvira Nabiullina’s attempt of silent protest at that meeting — by sitting at the table with her arms crossed, looking down — only led to Putin’s demonstrative appointment of Nabiullina as the head of the Central Bank. Everyone else understood that the situation rules out resistance and protest: the rest of that circle don’t even have Nabiullina’s courage.


This doesn’t mean that all division has vanished. Lately, Russia’s military failures have been encouraging ferment at the top. Its main evidence is not so much what Kadyrov and Prigozhin are saying, but that Putin himself has changed his conception of the war — not once, but two times.


‘Bulldogs under the rug’


Putin’s first conception of the war — the way in which he framed it — was “Blitzkrieg,” or “Kyiv in three days.” This failed, due to the absolute incompetence of those calculations.


He then moved on to the second idea, which was to limit the “special operation” to the south-east of Ukraine. This failed, too — due to the West’s cooperation with Ukraine on the one hand, and the Russian contract army’s inability to keep up with its losses by replenishing itself. It became clear that the Russian army could not hold on to such large occupied territories.


The third conception of the war finally embraced by Putin is “mobilization.” And here, too, we see more of the same organizational incompetence of Putin’s system. Even the key propagandists are now pointing this out — though without criticizing Putin personally.

The failure of all three Putin’s war conceptions, one after another, is definitely something that undermines his image. For the past 20 years, this image had two key aspects. First, Putin’s governmental machine was supposed to be competent and relatively effective. Second was the idea that, one way or another, in the end Putin wins. If he finds himself in a losing situation, he will escalate — and he will win. This is the basis of his public image as a powerful and successful leader. But today, the elites are witnessing him fail — three epic fails in a row, in fact. This confronts them with a choice, and what they’re choosing is not a “winning strategy” — but the preferable strategy for losing.


Nuclear war is a big and complicated subject, where few people can say anything of value about the real possible scenarios. The one thing we can say is this: there’s no limit to Putin’s fear of defeat, his terror of having to acknowledge it, and his desire to avoid a public admission of incompetence. He has built his entire career and his personal image on the idea that his government machinery is flawlessly effective. This is very dangerous. But we must remember that nuclear calls cannot be made unilaterally. And since the elites have seen that prior escalation steps only made things worse, it’ll be hard to convince them to embrace yet another round of escalation.


In this setting, Putin’s sudden (hypothetical) death would overjoy and thrill the elites, while at the same time causing a huge fight among the “bulldogs under the rug.”


The faulty government machinery


Putin’s government machine contains an internal bloc — the President’s Administration, which often plans different political campaigns. This bloc spent two months on internal polemics about how to conduct the Ukrainian “referendums” to make them convincing. Then, suddenly, someone stepped in and said: “That's it. We’re doing it the day after tomorrow, and the annexation in another couple of days.” This is clearly out of character, since this very same machinery has previously planned elaborate political campaigns, and always very thoroughly. In this case, the situation was clearly forced, and in the rush to get things done no one cared any longer about making the “referendums” as much as appear convincing. “We’re making a snowman: never mind it’s the summer, we have our orders.”


Same thing with mobilization. It looked like some late-Soviet campaign: the party bosses come up with something, local governments rush to execute the orders — and it all ends in some monstrous embarrassment.


The cause of all this rushing around is the collapse of Putin’s second conception of this war as a “special operation.” He didn’t respond to emerging threats: the loss of artillery advantage thanks to the Western weapons supply to Ukraine, and the difficulties with replenishing the Russian army. His failure became clear when Ukrainians began to advance along two different directions, and everyone understood that the front was collapsing.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/10...ave-our-orders

[Norton]

RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT

I would agree with this take away from the essay but even if accomplished, no reason to believe a hot war would not continue between Russia and Ukraine.

"Principled legal, moral, and ethical considerations require supporting Ukraine’s efforts to regain its lost lands and people and should not be dismissed. The aim of this essay has been to show that purely military realities and strategic considerations lead to the same conclusion. If Ukraine is to emerge from this war able to defend itself against a future Russian attack and with a viable economy that does not rely on long-term international financial support, it must liberate almost all its territory."

[sabang]

I just don't think it is gonna happen. Ukraine will have to cede some of it's territory- whether agreed or otherwise, in the four Provinces. My hope is it ends there. For a start, the Ukrainians are now dealing with a largely hostile, 'pro-Russian' population that do not wish to be part of the same nation. Then, Russia has gone ahead and annexed - so any offensive will be viewed as an attack on Russian sovereign territory. We are seeing that now, with the drone attacks in Kiev and so on. Then there is a growing groundswell of discontent among the people of Europe. Plus of course, the looming Midterms, and the sheer cost of all this.

Wise old Jack Matlock

the future of mankind will not be determined by where international borders are drawn — these have never been static in history

[harrybarracuda]

Pretty cool pic.Deaths after fighter jet crashes into Russian building in Yeysk

They're taking this kamikaze stuff too literally.

[harrybarracuda]

I just don't think it is gonna happen. Ukraine will have to cede some of it's territory- whether agreed or otherwise, in the four Provinces. My hope is it ends there. For a start, the Ukrainians are now dealing with a largely hostile, 'pro-Russian' population that do not wish to be part of the same nation.

No they're not, they're dealing with a population who were happy to live in and be part of Ukraine until Putin started arming a few rabid separatists.

While Putin knows he's succeeding to an extent in blackmailing Europe with energy supplies, he's underestimated how much Europeans hate him and want to help Ukraine. Certainly all the NATO countries realise they could be next if the madman is not stopped.

[bsnub]

Ukraine will have to cede some of it's territory

You really are clueless. Ukraine is kicking Russia's ass, if you have not noticed.

or a start, the Ukrainians are now dealing with a largely hostile, 'pro-Russian' population that do not wish to be part of the same nation.

Another big fat lie.

Then, Russia has gone ahead and annexed - so any offensive will be viewed as an attack on Russian sovereign territory.

Meaningless, in the coming days Ukraine will be liberating more of its sovereign territory and Russia will not be able to do a thing about it. They can whine all they want about it.

We are seeing that now, with the drone attacks in Kiev and so on.

Those attacks are desperation by a nation that is spent and losing the war. They would not be using crappy Iranian drones if they had more cruise missiles.

The clock is ticking.