Ukraine war mega thread

[OhOh]

He completely ignored Russia's signature on the Budapest Memorandum

Have you some facts, you can post here, to substantiate this opinion of yours?

[bsnub]

It could have been avoided by Putin. He chose a path of inevitable conflict, expecting rapid success and weak opposition from Ukraine and the West in general.
In my view he has spent many years moving the pieces into place, ostensibly integrating Russia into the global economy and particularly the European economy, creating a dependence on Russian energy exports and simultaneously amassing record foreign exchange reserves with which to buy (restricted) technology that he needed for his missile program whilst also laughing into his sleeve at us all. He created an internal Internet for Russia so that they could be self-sufficient when the day came.
His plan has always been a new, greater Russia. Georgia was part of that and the 2008 war there was almost a template for the Ukraine war. Then he took Crimea and he got the easy result he expected, the West sighed and Putin gained strategic naval assets in the Black Sea. Then he moved on Ukraine, encouraged in part by Trump's blocking of assistance to Ukraine, how Putin must have laughed about that unplanned piece of good luck. Obviously Maldova and Belarus would be reincorporated next and once he was sure Europe had no will to fight it would be the Baltic States. In his dreams, maybe even Kazakhstan.
Those who say appeasement could have prevented the current conflict are correct, but it would have gifted Ukraine to Putin and then what? He completely ignored Russia's signature on the Budapest Memorandum and would cheerfully ignore any other agreements when they no longer suited his purpose. I have said it before and maybe I'll not say it again after today. Chamberlain signed a pact with Hitler 84 years ago, declared "Peace for our time" and within a year Hitler marched into Poland and WW2 had begun. Those who think appeasing Putin was the right way forward are either naïve in putting their wishful thinking above the lessons of history or wilful supporters of a tyrant.
Stopping Putin is the only choice.

Very excellently summed up and spot on! Green owed!

I am in highly esteemed company in my assertion- senior statesmen, academics and the like. i will leave it there, or i will be accused of being a scratched record again.

A handful of washed up old fools and clowns. They are nothing but sniveling apologist like yourself. Whatever credibility they had in the past (not much) is long gone now.

Have you some facts, you can post here, to substantiate this opinion of yours?

Do piss off. You post more lies and propaganda than just about anyone else on the forum. You are in no place to ask someone to provide facts when you have absolutely none of your own.

[sabang]

Don't you just love it when pumped up, retarded clowns like snubs call the likes of Kissinger, Chomsky, Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, Stockman, Buchanan, Matlock and so on "washed up old fools and clowns". Sorry to be a scratched record, but there is no more clear signal of the paucity, in fact clear absence of their debate. All they can do is take childish little potshots at the sort of people they will never get to meet. Pathetic.

[harrybarracuda]

Don't you just love it when retarded clowns like snubs call the likes of Kissinger, Chomsky, Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, Stockman, Buchanan and so on "washed up old fools and clowns". Sorry to be a scratched record, but there is no more clear signal of the paucity, in fact clear absence of their debate. All they can do is take childish little potshots at the sort of people they will ever get to meet.

Why do you think anyone should take your sycophant brown nosing of these has-beens seriously?

[sabang]

Because, comparing them to the likes of you, they absolutely should.

[Shutree]

Have you some facts, you can post here, to substantiate this opinion of yours?

What part of the Budapest Memorandum are you unclear about? Here is an extract, my italics:

1. The United States of America, the Russian Fed-
eration, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to
Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE
[Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe]
Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty
and the existing borders of Ukraine.
2. The United States of America, the Russian Fed-
eration, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain
from the threat or use of force against the territorial in-
tegrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that
none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine
except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with
the Charter of the United Nations.
3. The United States of America, the Russian Fed-
eration, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to
Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE
Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed
to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by
Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and
thus to secure advantages of any kind.

UNTC


It is a matter of fact, not opinion, that Russia did not respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

Of course Putin has some weasel words to try to wriggle out of his obligations.

[NamPikToot]

[bsnub]

Ukrainian troops have entered Lyman.

[bsnub]

Lyman is a rail hub, the same as Mykolaiv, losing these will be catastrophic for the Russians as their entire logistic network lives and breathes on rail networks. They are incapable of logistical resupply any other way and that was proven in their first massive defeat during the failed Kyiv offensive. Reference this map of rail lines in Ukraine...

Ukraine: Complex - Map of Railways in Ukraine (5 Mar 2022) - Ukraine | ReliefWeb

Strongly recommend that you download the PDF to see the map and focus on key areas like Mykolaiv and Lyman. Then you see how devastating these loses to Russia are. When Lyman falls, so will the rest of Luhansk oblast. Dominos are going to fall fast.

Logistics are the oxygen of an Army.

No one understands logistics like us Americans.

[hallelujah]

Have you some facts?

[pickel]

Russia said Saturday it has withdrawn its troops from the once-occupied city of Lyman, as Ukraine’s eastern counteroffensive recaptures more territory.
Russia’s Tass and RIA news agencies, citing the Russian defense ministry, made the announcement.

Lyman is 160 kilometers (100 miles) southeast of Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city. Ukrainian forces had pushed across the Oskil River as part of a counteroffensive that saw Kyiv retake vast swathes of territory beginning in September.

Lyman, a key transportation hub, had been an important site in the Russian front line for both ground communications and logistics. Now with it gone, Ukraine can push further potentially into the occupied Luhansk region, which is one of four regions that Russia annexed Friday after an internationally criticized referendum vote at gunpoint.

Russia withdraws its troops from key city as Ukrainian forces close in - National | Globalnews.ca

Perhaps sabang should pay attention to the "war porn". It's the soldiers and battles that show what's going on in the war, not the elder statesmen, academics, and poet bloggers.

[Takeovers]

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/...ITzAD2Vgg&s=19

Defense of Ukraine
@DefenceU


Ukraine government organization
Official page of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

We thank the “Ministry of Defense” of Russia for successful cooperation in organizing the "Izyum 2.0" exercise. Almost all russian troops deployed to Lyman were successfully redeployed either into body bags or into Ukraine captivity. We have one question for you: Would you like a repeat?

Master trolling after master military operation.

[russellsimpson]

Russia annexed Friday after an internationally criticized referendum vote at gunpoint.

We are of course speaking figuratively as I notice many mainstream media partakers seem to be citing this 'at gunpoint' comment.

This is excellent news coming out of Lyman, I would never had predicted this as I never believed Russia would ever invade Ukraine.

I am wondering what the American position will be if, god forbid, Russia does use small scale nukes. I note Biden saying essentially that anybody not for the 'western' anti-Russian position is againt it and therefore must be punished . This includes potentially China, India, and Brazil. Biden taking this to the General Assembly couls be disastrous, I hope he doesn't dare do it.

No one understands logistics like us Americans.

And no one understands less in terms of long term diplomacy.

[russellsimpson]

No, you idiot, they "literally" went door to door accompanied by soldiers with guns.

You don't seem to realize that when you start name calling any valid points that you may make go down the shitter.

May I ask how old you are and how much formal education you might possess beyonds the grade eight level?

I'm disappointed that they mods don't clamp down on this.

What in the way of proof may you have to support these unlikely allegations?

[pickel]

^
You really are one naive motherfucker.

There's even a picture in case you have trouble reading.

Russia to formally annex four more areas of Ukraine - BBC News

Edit just for you.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ian_matve...Ey73U8kMQ&s=19

[Hugh Cow]

You don't seem to realize that when you start name calling any valid points that you may make go down the shitter.

May I ask how old you are and how much formal education you might possess beyonds the grade eight level?

I'm disappointed that they mods don't clamp down on this.

What in the way of proof may you have to support these unlikely allegations?

It does not detract from the validity of his statement. I'm not sure how his educational level has any relevance to the argument. Your implied slight in regard to his education reminded me of a man who had only a basic church education and would not have made "Grade 8". His name was Michael Faraday.
Personally I have seen video on Australian news of officials going door to door accompanied by an armed soldier and getting people to fill out ballot forms.
I suppose it could have been to protect the official from those nasty Ukrainians that would like their country back.

On another note Poo tin may like to ask his Generals how his army occupying a major logistics hub managed to get itself outflanked, especially with its alleged "air superiority" and when it was, retreated at the last minute, costing more Russian soldiers lives and the loss of even more Russian equipment. Still as long as they remembered to take their tampons to stuff into any bullet holes all will be well.
The commander of the Russian army is not by any chance General Melchett?

[pickel]

[russellsimpson]

I suppose it could have been to protect the official from those nasty Ukrainians that would like their country back.

Exactly, and not unreasonable in my opinion.

Pickel is simply an angry man who does't mind spewing his negative vile all over the forum.

He's pretty knowledgeable with all things hockey. This other stuff is way over his head. The education stuff was uncalled for on my part. He was in need of a smack down.

[panama hat]

I am wondering what the American position will be if, god forbid, Russia does use small scale nukes.

'small scale nukes'? Seriously? There is something to be said about having an opposing point of view but when you come up with garbage like this . . .

This includes potentially China, India, and Brazil

. . . because you think India and Brazil will sit happily by and support Russia using nukes.



Can I quote myself?

There is something to be said about having an opposing point of view but when you come up with garbage like this . . .

[pickel]

This other stuff is way over his head.

My naive motherfucker claim about you rings true. You haven't got a clue about this war and have been waiving a white flag for Ukraine since day one. You are a coward.

[bsnub]

You haven't got a clue about this war and have been waiving a white flag for Ukraine since day one.

This is very true. He is utterly clueless about what he is talking about, horrifyingly so, in fact. He has been calling for Ukraine to capitulate from the start and for the overthrow of Zelensky. A real scumbag if you ask me.

You are a coward.

Indeed he is.

[bsnub]

What scumbag of a mod would delete this article from a news thread??? Reality is reality. More losing is coming...

Russia suffered a humiliating military defeat on Saturday when Ukrainian troops liberated the key eastern city of Lyman, with videos showing them raising a blue and yellow national flag and performing a victory dance.

In a severe embarrassment for Vladimir Putin, Russia’s ministry of defence admitted its soldiers had retreated. They had been “withdrawn to more advantageous lines”, the ministry said, following their encirclement by Ukrainian forces.

The debacle comes hours after Putin declared on Friday that the city, which is in the Donetsk region, was Russia’s “for ever”. In a ceremony in the Kremlin he announced the province’s annexation, together with the territories of Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia.

Putin’s high-stakes strategy to boost support at home for his war appeared to be unravelling. Russian nationalist bloggers vented their fury at the military command in Moscow, while Chechnya’s president Ramzan Kadyrov published a scathing critique of its multiple failures.

Writing on the Telegram messaging app, Kadyrov called on the Kremlin to consider using a “low-yield nuclear weapon” after its Lyman setback. He asked sarcastically what cities Russia would forfeit next, adding: “Everything would be good if it wasn’t so bad.”

Earlier on Saturday Ukraine’s armed forces said they had entirely surrounded the city, trapping thousands of Russian soldiers inside. The governor of Luhansk province, Serhiy Haidai, said the besieged troops had begged on Friday to be allowed to leave Lyman. Their commanders refused, he claimed.

The Russians could either surrender, try to escape or die together, Haidai said. Some appear to have made it out. Ukrainian drone footage showed a column of vehicles heading west, together with civilian vehicles.

Others were less fortunate. Video showed the apparent aftermath of an artillery strike, with burned-out vehicles by the side of a forest road, personal belongings strewn in the mud and dead Russian soldiers. Dozens and possibly hundreds of other Russian servicemen appear to have been captured.

Russian military bloggers reported that Ukrainian servicemen had entered the centre of the city, and were handing out food to residents. They conceded Lyman’s fall had done “serious damage” to Moscow’s reputation. They pointed out that the city – in theory at least – was now a part of the Russian Federation.

“Whatever promises there were to send us reinforcements never materialised,” one lamented. Mobile phone footage showed Ukrainian soldiers walking calmly over a destroyed bridge near the village of Torske.

Ukrainian forces liberated several other surrounding settlements including Yampil, south of Lyman, Novoselivka, Shandrigolovo and Drobysheve. Video from Shandrigolovo showed Ukrainian soldiers pulling down the Russian tricolour. They threw it to the ground and stamped on it.

Russia’s disaster in Lyman comes shortly after a series of dramatic Ukrainian advances. Last month Ukrainian troops almost completely liberated the north-eastern Kharkiv region. Its governor, Oleh Synyehubov, said Russia had shelled a civilian evacuation convoy, killing 20 people. They had been fleeing from Kupiansk, a town about 6km from the front line. The attack appears to have happened last week. The victims reportedly included several children. Synyehubov said Moscow was guilty of “cruelty that can’t be justified”.

On Thursday, Russian troops attacked another convoy waiting to enter Russian-controlled territory in Zaporizhzhia, killing 30 civilians, including two children, and wounding dozens.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-city-of-lyman

[russellsimpson]

I am wondering what the American position will be if, god forbid, Russia does use small scale nukes. I note Biden saying essentially that anybody not for the 'western' anti-Russian position is againt it and therefore must be punished . This includes potentially China, India, and Brazil. Biden taking this to the General Assembly couls be disastrous, I hope he doesn't dare do it.

Is this the quote you are using to accuse me of suggesting that China, India and Brazil would not condemn any small scale nuclear action.

If so that's ridiculous sir. You're better than that.

[Troy]

'small scale nukes'? Seriously

You are the second person to ridicule small scale nukes, snubby being the first. Are we saying they don't exist or that they would be given the same treatment as large scale?

Let's say small scale or tactical is in the 1-10 ton range with limited risidual fallout.

If used to break Ukranian forces, rather than strategically against a city, would it escalate to full nuclear war?

I don't think it would, but nor do I think Putun would use such weapons on the battlefield. However, I also think the gung-ho attitude of snubby etc is dangerous.

[bsnub]

If used to break Ukranian forces, rather than strategically against a city, would it escalate to full nuclear war?

Ukraine is a very large country. A tactical nuke by itself would not break Ukrainian forces, as they are far too dispersed to be wiped out. Nukes will not help to turn the war into Putin's favor. Watch this video, it is an excellent analysis by a British defense expert...

However, I also think the gung-ho attitude of snubby etc is dangerous.

I want to see the Ukrainians win. I want them to defeat Russian barbarism and liberate their land. If that is being "gung-ho" then so be it.