Thread: Cost of Immigration

A few people have asked for the numbers when discussing how much immigration costs - here they are.

Government finally admits: Immigration IS placing huge strain on Britain | the Daily Mail

Crime is up, schools are struggling to cope with Eastern European children, community tensions are rising, health services are coming under enormous pressure and house prices are being driven up, the Government said.

330mm quid to treat HIV positive immigrants?
You have to pass a medical before they even consider to let you in to Oz.

So what's the solution then? Or doesn't the Daily Mail deal in answers?

Slogan.

A slogan is a memorable motto or phrase used in a political, commercial, religious & other context as a repetitive expression of an idea or purpose.

Slogans vary from the written and the visual to the chanted and the vulgar. Often their simple rhetorical nature leaves little room for detail, and as such they serve perhaps more as a social expression of unified purpose, rather than a projection for an intended audience.

Originally Posted by Robski

Or doesn't the Daily Mail deal in answers?

They barely deal in facts, let alone answers.

It's apparent that they include in the 'costs' of immigration so-called 'immigrants' from places like Australia and New Zealand also. Similarly they simply gloss over the fact that immigrants also contribute to the economy - it's not as scary if that is also factored in so best to leave it out. It's all very cartoonish, from the caricatures right down the the type-font.

Really, Clockwork Orange, do yourself a favour and read wider than just the Daily Mail.

They are reporting the facts.

Immigrants from New Zealand & don't sit begging in front of cash machines or mug old ladies on pension day. I would also stick my neck out & guess not a penny of that four billion spent on crime, race relations, asylum support, English lessons & security is nothing to do with any Australian.

You're putting a spin on it.

These are genuine concerns, regardless of where they are reported.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

You're putting a spin on it.

Don't be ridiculous. You're cut and pasting from a right-wing 'newspaper' with a notorious anti-immigration editorial stance and I'm putting a spin on it!? You'll have to do better than that. And certainly better than this:

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

mug old ladies on pension day

emotive hyperbole and melodramatic nonsense. In fact actually only one step up the rung from accusing Asian immigrants for being responsible for the mysterious spate of household pets disappearing.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

Immigrants from New Zealand & don't sit begging in front of cash machines or mug old ladies on pension day. I would also stick my neck out & guess not a penny of that four billion spent on crime, race relations, asylum support, English lessons & security is nothing to do with any Australian.

The point is that they have included 'immigrants' from New Zealand, Australia, and undoubtably other such 'acceptable' nations in the calculations and pointedly haven't included workings as to what immigrants contribute to the economy.

Originally Posted by Begbie

Basically a whole lot of hot air.

Indeed. Nicely packaged and presented hot air though. Lots of subtlely misleading charts and figures.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

They are reporting the facts.

A selection of statistics rather, without putting them in context nor going into details, and it seems you have 'overlooked' some paragraphs of commentary:

"A Home Office study found that migrants helped to grow the economy by £6billion last year."
"Ministers are finally admitting that, in certain areas, immigration is causing higher crime, poorer educational provision and overstretched healthcare.'"

The negative contribution figures can certainly be questioned.
But to get a fair assessment, the positive contribution would also need to be looked at.

One thing is that most English/ British people are becoming increasingly concerned about increased immigration- although to an extent this has always been the case, even in Australia. But in the UK, there appears to be increasing resentment.

Another thing is that it is large scale immigration from certain regions that attracts the most rancour- few question an Aussie or US bond trader going to work in the City, a Romanian or Pakistani in on an arranged marriage basis is more controversial.

I do think that social concerns and displacement have to be weighed in the equation also. There is more at stake than cheap labour.

The article is actually all about one sentence.

"But those from new EU accession countries in Eastern Europe earn less than UK born workers."

Nasty Eastern Europeans are taking away your jobs, vote conservative for a stronger Britain.

An election is coming soon and the Tories are floundering for policies as the government has stolen most of their old ones.

These figures are not made-up at all.

Begbie, I bet you weren't in London or similar when you visited the UK, or you wouldn't have failed to notice what's changed in recent years. As for border control, have you ever seen the nightly battles that occur at both entrances of the Channel Tunnel? Somebody's paying for it & that's just for starters.

As for blaming Thatcher & the race riots of thirty years ago for these problems, it sounds a little far-fetched & political.

Anything migrants contribute to the economy would have been contributed by people living here already so don't try & make out they are doing us some sort of favour by being here. If you look at it from a different angle, they have stolen jobs.

Look at the difference between how people like us treat a foreign country - such as Thailand - with respect & knowing our place, between these chancers who, when they realise that there aren't jobs all over the shop like they've been led to believe, start mugging, stabbing, dealing & all the other shit we had enough of already before they came here.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

These figures are not made-up at all.

Nobody is saying that they are. The point is that they are misleading. Lies, lies, more damned lies and statistics.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

chancers who, when they realise that there aren't jobs all over the shop like they've been led to believe, start mugging, stabbing, dealing & all the other shit we had enough of already before they came here.

You are almost cerubut like in your slavish devotion to and regurgitation of Daily Mail 'scripture'. Serious question, have you ever once actually questioned what it is you're reading? Or do you take it as gospel?

^^

I do question what I read, but there are sources who I trust who I know don't deal in buffalo & present views that are balanced.

^

I'm talking about immigrants from all over. There are many example of race wars in Scotland - is this what you mean by accustomed? - & I'm not talking about a few Poles.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

As for border control, have you ever seen the nightly battles that occur at both entrances of the Channel Tunnel? Somebody's paying for it & that's just for starters.

So, all the illegals who don't make it into the country are counted as a cost concerning legal immigrants as well?
Thanks for pointing out one example of how the stats are thwarted.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

I do question what I read, but there are sources who I trust who I know don't deal in buffalo & present views that are balanced.

So why don't you cut 'n paste from one of them then?

Because you're having a laugh if you think that the Daily Mail in any way, shape, or form presents a "balanced" take on immigration.

Lets be honest here Shitman. The taxes these immigrants contribute is what pays your dole money.

I think you'll find it's my taxes that contribute towards that 8.8 billion they spend.

I wouldn't begrudge a man a bit of dole, but this lot are taking the piss.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

^^

I'm talking about immigrants from all over. There are many example of race wars in Scotland

Come again !!!

That was a bad choice of term.

What I mean is, especially in the hi-rise estates of Scotland, I there have been massive fights between gangs of whites & gangs of immigrants. Not as widely publicised as the race wars in Oldham & such, but they are happening all the time.

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

I think you'll find it's my taxes that contribute towards that 8.8 billion they spend.

I wouldn't begrudge a man a bit of dole, but this lot are taking the piss.

Very Daily Mailish that one. Every immigrant is on benefits and none of their tax money goes toward anything?

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

That was a bad choice of term.

What I mean is, especially in the hi-rise estates of Scotland, I there have been massive fights between gangs of whites & gangs of immigrants. Not as widely publicised as the race wars in Oldham & such, but they are happening all the time.

You got a source for that ?

Please note, the Daily Mail does not count as a source, neither does a blog.

Originally Posted by Begbie

You got a source for that?

I'm sure I can find one & will do shortly.

I'm not doing it again though, as whenever I start a thread all I get is arguments for this & demands for that & I spend half my time trying to find links to what I simply know to be true.