A Serious Question

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 04:18 PM

Wveryone is laways bashing America and Bush for how they are dealing with the Muslim problem. Please respond with serious answers....

How would you handle the Muslim problem?

Edit: accidental edit. Sorry.

**stroller** · 08-10-2007, 04:25 PM

What "Muslim problem"?

Can you be more specific, a country, a certain incident, specific branch or community of islam, some aspect of Islam/Muslims?

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

What "Muslim problem"?

Can you be more specific, a country, a certain incident, specific branch or community of islam, some aspect of Islam/Muslims?

Well for one, the ones bombing places like London, Spain, New York and other places.

Second, the ones that are immigrating all over Europe in an attempt to take over by out populating the Europeans, living off the welfare of their new found countries and constantly bitching and moaning to get their way, yet never assimilating.

You know, the ones that say convert or die!

Muslims are the problem in 21 of the 23 conflicts in the world today. South Thailand, Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Philippines, Syria, many African countries etc. etc.

**stroller** · 08-10-2007, 04:47 PM

Personally, I haven't had any problems with Muslims, I don't see why people should be separated out because of their religion.
Apply the law to those who break it.

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by stroller

Personally, I haven't had any problems with Muslims, I don't see why people should be separated out because of their religion.
Apply the law to those who break it.

I agree stroller, but they are the ones bringing religion into it. If we do not convert, we are infidels........sentenced to death.

Are you saying there is know problem? If you are cool....you have your opinion and I respect that!!

**stroller** · 08-10-2007, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

If we do not convert, we are infidels........sentenced to death.

I don't think that is true, some extremists may take this stance, but even Al Quaida doesn't. It's an appeal during times of war, when the Muslim community is being attacked.

No Muslim has ever tried to convert me, and I have lived in Muslim communities most of my adult life, admittedly not in Muslim countries and it is the moderate ones I found comfortable to socialise with. Even when I went out of my way to inquire about their beliefs, there was no pressure, in fact a certain reluctance to deal with me.

I know this is a very different from what you hear in the media, but it's my personal story.

**keda** · 08-10-2007, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

...Second, the ones that are immigrating all over Europe in an attempt to take over by out populating the Europeans, living off the welfare of their new found countries and constantly bitching and moaning to get their way, yet never assimilating...

I'll drink to that...I don't know every muslim that's emigrated or otherwise snuck into the west, but the many I do know (and those they know!) are on the dole and either working or running businesses on the side...and most bitch they're not getting enough.

Not a plobrem, though, I guess there are many non-muslim legal and illegal immigrants and asylum seekers also working the system.

**stroller** · 08-10-2007, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by keda

Not a plobrem, though, I guess there are many non-muslim legal and illegal immigrants and asylum seekers also working the system.

Not to mention the Brits themselves, who have been playing the system for decades and developed it into a fine art...

But that's not the point, I know.

**November Rain** · 08-10-2007, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

Originally Posted by stroller

Personally, I haven't had any problems with Muslims, I don't see why people should be separated out because of their religion.
Apply the law to those who break it.

I agree stroller, but they are the ones bringing religion into it. If we do not convert, we are infidels........sentenced to death.

Are you saying there is know problem? If you are cool....you have your opinion and I respect that!!

Muslim is a religious description of a believer in & follower of Islam, as Jew is the same for Judaism, Christian for Christianity..ad infinitum.

Of course someone who professes to be a believer & follower of a religion will "bring religion into it".

AFAIK, you are not sentenced to death for simply being an infidel. You are expected to be damned to hellfire for eternity forever, after your death, though. Christianity promises the same for non-believers, as I'm sure do various other religions.

I think Western media has a lot to answer for.

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

Originally Posted by chitown

Originally Posted by stroller

Personally, I haven't had any problems with Muslims, I don't see why people should be separated out because of their religion.
Apply the law to those who break it.

I agree stroller, but they are the ones bringing religion into it. If we do not convert, we are infidels........sentenced to death.

Are you saying there is know problem? If you are cool....you have your opinion and I respect that!!

Muslim is a religious description of a believer in & follower of Islam, as Jew is the same for Judaism, Christian for Christianity..ad infinitum.

Of course someone who professes to be a believer & follower of a religion will "bring religion into it".

AFAIK, you are not sentenced to death for simply being an infidel. You are expected to be damned to hellfire for eternity forever, after your death, though. Christianity promises the same for non-believers, as I'm sure do various other religions.

I think Western media has a lot to answer for.

NR,

I know that Christians have killed in the past in the name if religion. But Muslims are doing it now. Day in and day out they are killing those of their own faith that are not consrvative enough, marry outside of their religion, those that do not adhere to Isalmic law and many other Westerners.

She was raped and beaten for not wearing a veil...IN SWEDEN.

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 08:34 PM

Sorry.....had to post this one!

**November Rain** · 08-10-2007, 08:37 PM

Some of those photos I hadn't seen, so I apologise for sounding glib. I don't believe that the voice of the extremist is the voice of the normal Muslim, but, of course, they get the most attention, because of their acts.

Not excusing anything that is going on at the moment, but just wishing to show that Muslims aren't the only ones who have persecuted in the cause of religion - Christianity was one of the biggest causes of persecution in History. Look at Martin Luther, the Huguenots, the Spanish Inquisition, "Bloody" Mary, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I - Oh, hell, all the Tudors & Stuarts, Cromwell - even up to the present conflict in Northern Ireland. All religion.

**keda** · 08-10-2007, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

...
AFAIK, you are not sentenced to death for simply being an infidel. You are expected to be damned to hellfire for eternity forever, after your death, though. Christianity promises the same for non-believers, as I'm sure do various other religions.

I think Western media has a lot to answer for.

Odd though, that the OT God was happy to smite the unholy and have done with it, but had a change of heart for the NT and created hell to punish the baddies throughout eternity.

**chitown** · 08-10-2007, 08:45 PM

Soraya being prepared for stoning to death, having been accused of adultery by her husband when she was angered by his taking a second wife. Her husband, father, and sons threw the first stones of the deluge that assailed her.

**keda** · 08-10-2007, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

Some of those photos I hadn't seen, so I apologise for sounding glib. I don't believe that the voice of the extremist is the voice of the normal Muslim, but, of course, they get the most attention, because of their acts.

Not excusing anything that is going on at the moment, but just wishing to show that Muslims aren't the only ones who have persecuted in the cause of religion - Christianity was one of the biggest causes of persecution in History. Look at Martin Luther, the Huguenots, the Spanish Inquisition, "Bloody" Mary, Henry VIII, Elizabeth I - Oh, hell, all the Tudors & Stuarts, Cromwell - even up to the present conflict in Northern Ireland. All religion.

Your list of Christian iniquities goes back a bit...anything more recent on the international circuit?

**stroller** · 08-10-2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by chitown

Day in and day out they are killing those of their own faith that are not consrvative enough, marry outside of their religion, those that do not adhere to Isalmic law and many other Westerners.

Yes, some of 'em do.
But I have yet to read anywhere that this is related to refused conversions, as you asserted earlier.

In fact, I'd say this is against the teachings and spirit of Islam. They are supposed to respect and tolerate other believers of Allah, irrespective of diverging opinions and practices, also Jews and Christians are regarded as believers, alas misguided ones of lower status.

**raycarey** · 08-10-2007, 09:28 PM

lots of photos, but no links.

**Clockwork Orange** · 08-10-2007, 11:57 PM

Looking at that poor woman, being buried alive in preperation for being stoned, while that bunch of animals participate & look on, shows us all what we need to know about this.

I understand to call this episode a 'muslim problem' is uncalled for, but things needs to be sorted out, one way or another & it is specifically muslims who are doing this stuff, at this time. These loons have to get to grips with life in the 21st century & stop banging on about virgins, river of wine & mutilating each-other, or go to hell, via their prefered method of solving life's problems - violence - if necessary.

I know some great guys - some friends, also - who are muslims & their religion never comes into any conversation we have. It's their own business. No big deal. Their work's as varied as nightclub doormen to council officer & they are as normal a person as you can be.

It's the fanatics who are the problem. Let's stop them hiding behind the shield of being a 'muslim' like they are the Untouchables & treat them as what they are - murdering bastards.

**stroller** · 09-10-2007, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by chitown

Soraya being prepared for stoning to death, having been accused of adultery by her husband when she was angered by his taking a second wife. Her husband, father, and sons threw the first stones of the deluge that assailed her.

Any link or source for this? Where did it happen and when?

Originally Posted by Clockwork Orange

It's the fanatics who are the problem. Let's stop them hiding behind the shield of being a 'muslim' like they are the Untouchables & treat them as what they are - murdering bastards.

Where? In the UK?

**Clockwork Orange** · 09-10-2007, 12:45 AM

I'm refering to the guys who murder women to save face & blow up trains to honour whatever his name is - that nomad from the desert - you know who I mean. They are in the UK, South Thailand, you name it.

They've got to go, there is no place for them, or anyone else who kills & maims for the sake of some made-up God, in the modern world.

It would be interesting to observe their stance on global warming. Bet they couldn't give a toss.

**stroller** · 09-10-2007, 12:57 AM

So, how could one find these guys?

**Clockwork Orange** · 09-10-2007, 01:00 AM

BBC NEWS | UK | Profile: Abu Hamza

**Texpat** · 09-10-2007, 01:11 AM

Internment camps. That's my answer, sooner the better.
Feed 'em pork sandwiches and Marlboros.

Just kidding, but it could come to that in my lifetime. Countries and communities will only put up with this shit for so long.

**stroller** · 09-10-2007, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Internment camps.

For who?
Shouldn't people who murder women and blow-up trains be in prison, or maybe executed, as per the law of the land?

**Marmite the Dog** · 09-10-2007, 11:33 AM

I have come across stone-age Islamic problems twice when I was in the UK.

I used to work with a bunch of people from many different backgrounds and there were 5 or 6 English-Pakistani people there. One of the other techs was a 'normal' chap and generally a good laugh, but he did get a bit touchy about his religion sometimes (this was a couple of years before 9/11), but nothing much was thought about that.

There were two or three English-Pakistani girls there. One went to Pakistan on holiday and came back married to a complete stranger (against her will) so that a whole bunch of them could escape Pakistan and take advantage of the better life they would have in an infidel country. A few months later another girl was to go to Pakistan on holiday. We joked with her and said that she's off to get married like the other girl. She was adamant that her family are not backward and would never do a thing like that to her. Well, she came back married, just like the first girl.

Now, forced marriage is against the law of any non-stone age country, but both girls were too scared to do anything about it. This isn't as newsworthy as flying airplanes into buildings, but it does demonstrate that even the so-called majority of peace loving Muslims still do nasty shit to their so-called loved ones, especially the women.

I did date a Cypriot-English girl whose parents were normal (Praise be to Allah), but I think the Turks are not as brainwashed as the rest of them.

As for what to do with them, feck knows.

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