Thread: The Problem with Plastic

Originally Posted by aging one

Not the Dutch this one clever kid and his start up company. Nothing to do with the government. Here is a better read and much more objective and in depth.

'It's important to at least try': Can this 23-year-old clear the oceans of plastic waste?

Same guy, ao, and he is Dutch. Good article, though.

Originally Posted by stroller

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I would say it's a combination of cost and government leadership... you have to make it cheaper for manufacturers and retailers to produce degradeable packagaing than non- and that is where government comes in to put tax on the bad and tax relief on the good...

Government leadership? Have you turned into a tree-hugging, fascist lefty recently?

Environmentalism takes many forms




You just have to take the "mental" out of it.

There's a bit of a difference between simple tax and relief steering of the private sector to preserve the sustainability of an economy, and a full blown Orwellian police state run by pseudo-scientific crypto-fascist mentals.

Originally Posted by Thailandbound

Same guy, ao, and he is Dutch. Good article, though.

...alas, his system is can only get the big bits, and the bigger problem is when they are eroded down to the size of grains of sand or smaller and dispersed everywhere... how do you even detect them?!

It may be that the entire world's hydrosystem is so contaminated (though there will be concentrations and rarefactions due to current patterns), that bascally all the water will have to be indefinitely "processed" to filter and destroy microplastics.

This would be a major r&d undertaking itself, and you might not see practical results in terms of hardware in the field until 10-20 years from now... it's taking that long to get marine biogeochemical sensors to a mature state

Microplastics in the sea a growing threat to human health, United Nations warns

More than a quarter of fish in markets in Indonesia and California contain plastic particles

Microplastics in the sea a growing threat to human health, United Nations warns | The Independent

Plastic fibres found in tap water around the world, study reveals



Exclusive: Tests show billions of people globally are drinking water contaminated by plastic particles, with 83% of samples found to be polluted

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-study-reveals

Plastics and microplastics in the oceans: From emerging pollutants to existing threat

abstract

Plastic production has increased dramatically worldwide over the last 60 years and it is nowadays recognized as a serious threat to the marine environment. Plastic pollution is ubiquitous, but quantitative estimates on the global abundance and weight of floating plastics are still limited, particularly for the Southern Hemisphere and the more remote regions. Some large-scale convergence zones of plastic debris have been identified, but there is the urgency to standardize common methodologies to measure and quantify plastics in seawater and sediments. Investigations on temporal trends, geographical distribution and global cycle of plastics have management implications when defining the origin, possible drifting tracks and ecological consequences of such pollution. An elevated number of marine species is known to be affected by plastic contamination, and a more integrated ecological risk assessment of these materials has become a research priority. Beside entanglement and ingestion of macro debris by large vertebrates, microplastics are accumulated by planktonic and invertebrate organisms, being transferred along food chains. Negative consequences include loss of nutritional value of diet, physical damages, exposure to pathogens and transport of alien species. In addition, plastics contain chemical additives and efficiently adsorb several environmental contaminants, thus representing a potential source of exposure to such compounds after ingestion. Complex ecotoxicological effects are increasingly reported, but the fate and impact of microplastics in the marine environment are still far to be fully clarified.

http://jpi-oceans.eu/sites/jpi-ocean...%2C%202016.pdf

Originally Posted by VocalNeal

More irony is that to dispose of plastic household waste we put it in yet another (black) plastic bag so it can be collected.

That is so terrible.
I remember a long time ago in Canada, they would ask you if you wanted paper or plastic when you were at the grocery store. Now they mostly use plastic and don't charge you. In China, they do charge you 10 cents per bag. Not that I'm cheap, but it discourages me to buy a plastic bag that I know will harm the environment.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

..alas, his system is can only get the big bits, and the bigger problem is when they are eroded down to the size of grains of sand or smaller and dispersed everywhere... how do you even detect them?!

It may be that the entire world's hydrosystem is so contaminated (though there will be concentrations and rarefactions due to current patterns), that bascally all the water will have to be indefinitely "processed" to filter and destroy microplastics.

This would be a major r&d undertaking itself, and you might not see practical results in terms of hardware in the field until 10-20 years from now... it's taking that long to get marine biogeochemical sensors to a mature state

I think he has a great idea, but he isn't really looking at primary prevention, which is getting people to stop polluting the oceans with plastic. It would be nice if they could clean 50% of our oceans, but then what? People will probably keep polluting it.

Full marks for recycling your flounces.

That's three in four days now.

aging one, it looks like California may be breaking ground. I hope the bill passes.


Plastic straws illegal unless requested under California bill — with up to a $1,000 fine attached

Author: Josh Hafner, USA TODAY
Published: 12:35 PM EST January 29, 2018

A bill proposed in California would make it illegal for restaurant servers to give guests plastic straws unless requested — with the threat of a $1,000 fine or jail time attached.

Ian Calderon, the Democratic assemblyman who introduced the bill this month, stressed it does not constitute a ban on drinking straws. Should it progress into law, he said, the penalties would be nixed through amendments.

“We need to create awareness around the issue of one-time use plastic straws and its detrimental effects on our landfills, waterways, and oceans,” Calderon, majority leader of California's lower house, said in a statement.
The bill would tack the rule onto already existing code, the violation of which carries a fine between $25 and $1,000, up to six months in county jail, or both, "except as otherwise provided." It would only apply to sit-down restaurants, not bars or fast food locations.

Calderon set out to defend the bill on Twitter, claiming amendments would be added remove the possibility of a fine or jail time for handing out straws.
"The penalties are attached to the code section the bill is currently in. That will change," the lawmaker said. "Amendments are part of the legislative process."

http://www.wkyc.com/article/news/nat...c-bb6f7c3be9bc

This is quite progressive and a super idea.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

alas, his system is can only get the big bits, and the bigger problem is when they are eroded down to the size of grains of sand or smaller and dispersed everywhere... how do you even detect them?!

I think the idea is if the bigger bits are removed they don't degrade down into smaller bits.

On the China front....

China No Longer Wants Your Trash. Here’s Why That’s Potentially Disastrous.

The country has been the “world’s wastebasket” for decades. But starting Jan. 1, China has said “no more.”

01/24/2018 10:47 am ETUpdated 5 days ago

On Jan. 1, China made good on its promise to close its borders to several types of imported waste. By the next day, panic had already taken hold in countries across Europe and North America as trash began piling up by the ton, with no one having a clue where to now dispose of it all.

For more than 20 years, China has been the world’s recycling bin, accepting an enormous quantity of recyclable waste from nations worldwide. In 2016, China processed at least half of the world’s exports of waste plastic, paper and metals. The U.S. exported 16 million tons of waste to China that year, worth about $5.2 billion. Britain sent China enough garbage to fill up 10,000 Olympic-size swimming pools.

It has long been a mutually beneficial arrangement for China and the exporting countries eager to get rid of their mounting waste. But last year, China told the World Trade Organization that it was no longer interested in playing the role of global wastebasket. Beijing said that, beginning in 2018, it would be banning the imports of 24 categories of solid waste, including waste plastics, unsorted scrap paper and waste textiles. It was the most severe step China had taken since it began building its metaphorical “green fence” earlier this decade, which involved measures aimed at reducing the amount of “yang laji,” or foreign trash, that could arrive on its shores.

The ramifications of China’s recent ban has been described with language suggestive of a natural disaster. It has sent “shockwaves” worldwide, said Greenpeace East Asia plastics campaigner Liu Hua. Arnaud Brunet, head of the Bureau of International Recycling, compared the ban to an “earthquake.”

Mere weeks after the ban took effect, waste management facilities in several countries, including the U.S., Canada, the U.K. and Germany, are groaning under the weight of trash that no one seems to know what to do with. There’s “a mad scramble for alternative destinations or solutions” for all the waste that’s piling up, said Von Hernandez, global coordinator for the nonprofit Break Free From Plastic, speaking to HuffPost from the Philippines on Wednesday.

In the U.S., a recycler in Oregon told The New York Times this week that his inventory had gone “out of control” since the year began. China’s decision, he said, had caused “a major upset of the flow of global recyclables.”

Ireland has warned that its pile-up of garbage will soon “reach crisis levels” if an alternative destination for its trash is not found. The country sent 95 percent of its plastic waste to China in 2016, according to TheJournal.ie.

In Calgary, Canada, which had been sending half of its plastic waste and all of its mixed papers to China, the city’s waste manager described stockpiling thousands of tons of plastics and paper in empty storage sheds, shipping containers and trailers as officials figure out what to do with all the detritus. In Halifax, where 80 percent of recyclable waste had been sent to China, 300 metric tons of plastic bags and other plastic film products had to recently be buried in a landfill because the city has no more space to store it, reported the Times.

“We have relied on exporting plastic recycling to China for 20 years and now people do not know what is going to happen,” Simon Ellin, chief executive of The Recycling Association in.K., told The Guardian, adding that plastic waste had already started to pile up in recyclers’ yards.

“A lot of [recycling organizations] are now sitting back and seeing what comes out of the woodwork, but people are very worried,” Ellin said.

An in-depth article more here.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0dc592a0dd7b9

Originally Posted by Thailandbound

On the China front....

China No Longer Wants Your Trash. Here’s Why That’s Potentially Disastrous.

The country has been the “world’s wastebasket” for decades. But starting Jan. 1, China has said “no more.”

Luckily, they had accepted the "waste" from 9/11 shipped to them in such a hurry...

One assumes they gave notice of this. But either no one listened or does not have an alternative strategy in place. Could explain why a few paper mills in China are closing? No more feed stock?

^The "waste" the Chinese had been receiving was mainly not really recyclable (like the one from 9/11).

A closing of a paper mill is not only because of "no more feed stock", there are sometimes problems with a waste water - what the Chinese are surely very concerned of .

In recent years also in Thailand had been frequent closings of a huge paper mill in Khon Khaen, however, "a solution" was always found.

China used to accept it for recycling then dump it.

I can only assume that they've finally realised that they're simply shitting on their own doorstep.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

In recent years also in Thailand had been frequent closings of a huge paper mill in Khon Khaen, however, "a solution" was always found.

Maybe but one shouldn't confuse paper mills with pulp mills. Although they sometimes are, they are not always on the same site.

Some good points raised in the above posts.

Whilst cardboard and paper is easy to recover the process of recycling is messy, uses caustic chemicals and produces harmful byproducts and emissions.

Plastic products, particularly thermoplastic packaging products are presently more difficult to recover but the process of recycling produces very little heat and no harmful emissions.

The main issue as I see it is the lack of education and commitment with regard to organised and efficient plastic product recovery only.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

^The "waste" the Chinese had been receiving was mainly not really recyclable (like the one from 9/11).

A closing of a paper mill is not only because of "no more feed stock", there are sometimes problems with a waste water - what the Chinese are surely very concerned of .

In recent years also in Thailand had been frequent closings of a huge paper mill in Khon Khaen, however, "a solution" was always found.

I hope you guys read the article..

China was accepting numerous types of waste like plastic, paper, etc..
Now they are sick of taking on other country's waste and want to focus more on their own backyard. I think it is about time that China starts focusing on their own recycling system where currently it is local people walking past and picking up recyclables. China is going to get countries who relied on China far too long on thinking how they can recycle for themselves..hopefully not just burning the garbage which can cause air pollution.

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Whilst cardboard and paper is easy to recover the process of recycling is messy, uses caustic chemicals and produces harmful byproducts and emissions.

Plastic products, particularly thermoplastic packaging products are presently more difficult to recover but the process of recycling produces very little heat and no harmful emissions.

The main issue as I see it is the lack of education and commitment with regard to organised and efficient plastic product recovery only.

Good points, LT. Today we were saying that the US could light a bomb from underneath and blow their garbage sky high . No? lol

Use of plastic straws scrapped at Scottish Parliament


The Scottish Parliament has stopped using plastic drinking straws in its own cafes, bar and canteen.

Up until the end of 2017, Holyrood's catering outlets were using about 4,000 plastic straws each year. However amid rising concern about single-use plastics, paper straws are now being provided instead. Kezia Dugdale, a member of Holyrood's corporate body management group, said the move was "part of a bigger picture" to protect the environment.

A growing range of organisations and institutions have begun withdrawing plastic straws from use amid concerns about plastic being found on beaches and in the sea.
Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch MSP Kate Forbes has been running a campaign, backed by the Marine Conservations Society, aiming for a "plastic straw free Scotland".
Holyrood has now got on board, having already switched to fully compostable cups and lids for takeaway coffees and compostable food boxes and single-use cutlery.

'Bigger picture'

Ms Dugdale said the move to scrap plastic straws was "a no brainer".
She said: "When staff approached our supplier at the start of the year for an alternative to plastic, we discovered they could just as easily provide paper straws for pretty much the same cost.
"These are pretty small changes to make, but it's part of a bigger picture in thinking about our actions and protecting our environment."

Ms Forbes said it was important her campaign also had an impact closer to home.
She said: "I give full credit to the catering team and Sir Paul Grice, chief executive, for their rapid response to my letter asking them to consider ditching plastic straws.
"If those who need straws ask for one, it will be available as its vital that these changes do not cause difficulty to those who need a straw for medical reasons.
"If the Scottish Parliament can do this, then I hope it encourages more councils and other public bodies to follow suit.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-42908072


Scotland...yeah!

I don't understand why there isn't a worldwide ban on these things...



Maybe there is elsewhere, but they are still being used in the US.

^Is that the plastic six pack holders?
I was reading up about these.. from Wiki.

Since 1989, six-pack rings in the USA have been manufactured to be 100 percent photo-degradable, so the plastic will begin to disintegrate in just a few weeks, allowing animals to easily free themselves from the brittle and crumbling rings.^[3] This is in accordance with the U.S. Federal regulation for testing plastic photo-degradation, which is 40 CFR Ch. I (7–1–03 Edition) PART 238.^[4] In 2016, SaltWater Brewery developed edible rings that sea-creatures could consume safely.^[5][6]

Six-pack rings are now a relatively minor contributor to marine litter and wildlife fatalities. Fishing gear and other plastic wastes are a larger problem.^[7][8]

Prince Charles says World Turned a 'Blind Eye' to Plastic Waste in the Ocean

Wednesday31January2018

The heir to the throne said he had long had a "deep frustration" with the lack of action over mounting plastic in the seas, but added he is pleased to see a growing level of concern.

Addressing environmentalists and businessman in London, he said: "Over the last few years, the awareness and science about the negative impacts of plastic waste in our ocean have grown significant"Many of you, I know, shared my deep frustration that the world was seemingly just turning a blind eye to this mounting evidence."Thankfully, the level of concern has now changed, not least because of your efforts."

Prince Charles was speaking at the International Sustainability Unit at the British Academy, which he established in 2010 to help tackle environmental issues such as climate change, deforestation and marine health.

He added: "Even though the challenge at hand is extremely grave and unbelievably urgent, I for one at least find some encouragement from the fact that the legacy of plastic in the environment is now very much on the global agenda and in the public consciousness.

"In a culture where the forces of competition so often swamp the imperative of co-operation, breaking out of the silos that slow down progress is even more of an achievement.

"The nightmare result of eight million tons of plastic entering the ocean every year is set to get worse rather than better.

"We cannot, indeed must not, allow this situation to continue... I do fervently pray that you will all do your utmost to work together in the coming year to make real, substantial progress. "It could not be more critical that you succeed."

Prince Charles is known for his work on environmental issues and has been raising plastic pollution concerns since the early 1970s.

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-ch...ocean-11230890

Originally Posted by Thailandbound

^Is that the plastic six pack holders?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Thailandbound

so the plastic will begin to disintegrate in just a few weeks, allowing animals to easily free themselves from the brittle and crumbling rings.

So they only have to struggle for "a few weeks" ...WTF? Is that supposed to make somebody feel better about tossing out their 6-pack rings?

"Oh it's ok, the lil critter will be fine in a few weeks."

The wife and I always make sure to take the scissors and cut each individual ring before discarding.

^Good for you. I don't understand either, but hopefully someone will think of a better way to hold six packs together.