Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Just to be clear: there will be no second referendum.

Just be clearer; you don't make that call.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

When are the remoaners gonna stop their whinging, stop being bad losers, weak, afraid individuals???

There will be no second referendum. If the remoaners had actually supported the nation instead of waving EU flags and supporting the EU's endless dogmatic cliches then this whole process could have been a smooth and united one.

Just to be clear: there will be no second referendum.

Well the Brexit camp had been whinging and moaning since 1975, until they got their second referendum. It will actually be the third referendum and those that wish to remain in the EU won't be waiting another 40 years.

Originally Posted by Troy

Well the Brexit camp had been whinging and moaning since 1975

I fully supported the EU as a trading block.

But, a single currency will always damage most economies at the expense of the controlling economy (Germany in this case). The UK didn't sign up for an EU army, ever increasing federalization and distancing in of sovereignty. The EU has killed itself by allowing extremists to turn it into a federal state when it was only supposed to be a trading block.

The number of British citizens applying for Irish passports rose by 22% in 2018, Ireland’s foreign office said on Monday

dirty tree and a turd

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

right because the British empire is doing so well at the moment

Feeble attempt to distract from your own, personal and collective national woes.
Up your game mr repetitive.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

You also write about the long English tradition of clinging romantically to heroic defeat. What do you ascribe this to?

George Orwell wrote about this in the early 1940s. He said that it was extraordinary that if you think about the poems that English schoolkids will know, they’re all about defeats or retreats or disasters. It’s Scott of the Antarctic, it’s the Charge of the Light Brigade, it’s Gordon of Khartoum. That tradition of heroic failure was great when you were ruling the world as it was a way of saying we’re not really a nasty imperial power. But in a post-imperial age you get a farcical version. Because originally the thing that characterised heroic failure in the English imagination was not self-pity, but Brexit is full of hysterical self-pity.

It’s important for YOU to learn from history, but in you’re case it’s irrelevant, because the only sounds you hear are the echoes of you own wittering.

I suspect the leave date will be extended as Brexiteers don't have a plan or apparently any understanding of modern economics- just a punch of victim card playing about poor wee Little England. It can take decades to secure world trade deals- we're going to lose a load when we leave as they are tied up with the EU. Besides, what nation would want to deal with an insignificant little rock that defaults and refuses to pay what it owes by law?

There should never have been a referendum in the first place imo. I suppose Tommeh "Ten Names" Robinson will make another crying video about it begging for more money.

There's something to be said for an EU army too imo- all this saber rattling from the likes of Russia needs a deterrent.

Originally Posted by cyrille

Will you ever stop re-stating this?

Do you think it's informative?

It’s worthwhile reminding the idiots that think it’s still an open question. Also the first time that I have mentioned it personally. Other opinions are available.

In the unlikely event of a second referendum, I believe you will all be equally surprised by the result. Bring it on. It will simply confirm that, despite May’s appalling leadership, the electorate has no stomach for further socialist idealism.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

I fully supported the EU as a trading block.

But, a single currency will always damage most economies at the expense of the controlling economy (Germany in this case). The UK didn't sign up for an EU army, ever increasing federalization and distancing in of sovereignty. The EU has killed itself by allowing extremists to turn it into a federal state when it was only supposed to be a trading block.

Nothing like uttering nonsense and dishing it out as facts, but that seems to be the Brexiteer way. The UK opted out of the Euro and Schengen and there is no EU army. Carry on anyway...

BTW the Germans don't control the Euro and can no longer dictate European monetary policy in the way they could when there were individual currencies.

Meanwhile, trade is still the most important part of the EU and open borders for trade and people is still something the UK needs.

Originally Posted by Mandaloopy

I suspect the leave date will be extended as Brexiteers don't have a plan or apparently any understanding of modern economics- just a punch of victim card playing about poor wee Little England. It can take decades to secure world trade deals- we're going to lose a load when we leave as they are tied up with the EU. Besides, what nation would want to deal with an insignificant little rock that defaults and refuses to pay what it owes by law?

There should never have been a referendum in the first place imo. I suppose Tommeh "Ten Names" Robinson will make another crying video about it begging for more money.

There's something to be said for an EU army too imo- all this saber rattling from the likes of Russia needs a deterrent.

It’s called a transition period. It’s only required because the EU expects Brexit to fail, and they are the ones who have prepared to fail by being intransigent and believing there own hype.
The head of the WTO sees no problems for UK trading outside the bloc, post Brexit .

An EU army is pointless unless you are aiming for Eutopia to become a nation in its own right. NATO and current cooperation deals are just fine without the need for EU duplication. Who do you think is minding those countries in the east who share a border with Russia? That’s right NATO.who is providing logistic support to the French? That’s right, a long standing cooperation and sharing agreement between UK and France.

Time for remain to face the reality. All that is needed is 2% of gdp to support an institution that has worked well for decades. If little Estonia, UK and even Greece can mange it, why not the rest?

Much cheaper than building a new army in 27 nations with no infrastructure, and an apalling record on decision making.

Originally Posted by Troy

Nothing like uttering nonsense and dishing it out as facts, but that seems to be the Brexiteer way. The UK opted out of the Euro and Schengen and there is no EU army. Carry on anyway...

BTW the Germans don't control the Euro and can no longer dictate European monetary policy in the way they could when there were individual currencies.

Meanwhile, trade is still the most important part of the EU and open borders for trade and people is still something the UK needs.

The Germans have always underwritten EU ambition and bailouts that prove, not just their involvement, but their financial clout and leadership. Once again, you are reminded that Merkel has said, no more. Why would she need to say that if they were not the ones pulling the strings?
I have just explained why there is no need for an EU army but your friends in the commission continue the clamour for one.
Stoll denying the EU ambition for superstate status?

Anyone else read about Seaborne Freight and their win of a government contract to run a Ramsgate to Ostend ferry service if there is a no-deal?

They have no ferries and no history of providing such a service do how did they manage to win the contract? Reports also suggest they get paid part of the 13m even if there isn't a no deal. A check on the internet: seven directors, started last year, £7000 assets and over £400,000 in liabilities.

Something doesn't add up and the government can't blame the EU for this one.

Poor old Botfly EUs north african representative is really on a rant. What happened to make you so angry? Did you apply to emmigrate to Britain and they said "sorry we're not taking anyone from that shithole this week. Try Belgium they're probably the only country desperate enough to take you. Dont worry it will look like the Venice of Northern Europe to some poor ass like you". Now poor rejected Botfly rants away, knowing that the E.U. was the only way the likes of him would ever step foot on the shores of Dover and Brexit will end his dream as he will never get there on merrit. He knows he is ... well... not quite good enough. Quite sad really.

Originally Posted by Switch

The Germans have always underwritten EU ambition and bailouts that prove, not just their involvement, but their financial clout and leadership. Once again, you are reminded that Merkel has said, no more. Why would she need to say that if they were not the ones pulling the strings?
I have just explained why there is no need for an EU army but your friends in the commission continue the clamour for one.
Stoll denying the EU ambition for superstate status?

Germany were one of the major creditors in the Greece bail-out, which also included France and Italy. This is not the same as being in control of the ECB, which Germany are not. They have influence but not as much influence as their size suggests. Too many getting on the bandwagon of "Germany dictating the EU" when it is not the case. This lack of influence versus contributions is one of the reasons why the UK is upset, but it is necessary for all countries to participate rather than just the few major ones in order not to have hegemony, that you wittered on about in a previous post.

One reason for having an EU army would be to allow Germany to increase its spending to 2% GDP, in line with NATO requirements, without having the biggest army in Europe. Germany is still very mindful of its past and is going out if its way not to over influence the EU politically, financially or militarily. The exact opposite of your continued accusations.

I have enjoyed the benefits of the UK being in the EU for many years now. I would prefer the arrangements to be international, rather than confined to Europe, being able to live and work freely anywhere in the world would be my dream.

You can dress up Brexit any way you like but it's still a disastrous thing to be doing in the 21st Century.

Originally Posted by Troy

You can dress up Brexit any way you like but it's still a disastrous thing to be doing in the 21st Century.

For you personally, Troy? What would the disaster entail for you?

Originally Posted by Switch

The vote question, and the answer was really quite simple.

Leave or Remain.

Leave won.

If there were any doubts about the question or the electorates ability to understand it, and the ensuing complexity, the time for a second referendum was then.
To say now, that the question was too complex and easily misunderstood, is just sour grapes.

I maintain that, despite May’s attempt to hide the answers and to bully parliament with project fear, both parliament and the electorate are much better informed than they were.
The arrogance of the EU and the deal that May is still trying to force through is now totally transparent.
If anything, the Brexit posture has been hardened by such transparency and cast doubts among the remain club.

No need for a second referendum just leave and have a general election to elect an honest government with some backbone.

The question was indeed misunderstood, by our own glorious leader who thought 'leave' meant pretend to leave but stay attached as a vassal state till 2099.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

right because the British empire is doing so well at the moment

Heyo, talk of empires, what do you suppose the EU is?

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

What’s going to happen now?

I’m increasingly convinced that there will be a second referendum. The Sherlock Holmes principle is always a good one: you eliminate the impossible and whatever remains, however improbable, must be the solution. The second referendum has always been highly improbable but everything else is looking impossible. There’s just no deal that the Europeans can do that can get through the House of Commons. And no deal is so catastrophic that you have to hope that no sane parliament would allow it. So the one thing left is a second referendum.

No problem with Ref2, if the politician-proofed options are no deal or crap deal. As squirrel and others don't need reminding, the leave part is already decided.

Originally Posted by Troy

The referendum was not a football match and shouldn't be likened to one. It was a gauge of public opinion. It showed that opinion to be divided. It didn't warrant a full scale plan to leave the EU and Article 50 was invoked a little too quickly, certainly before the UK had agreed the best way forward.

Since the referendum, the country has been in limbo and still doesn't really know what the best way forward is. The idea that "brexit means brexit" or "taking back control" means anything other than silly clichés will be haunting the PM all the way to a second referendum. It is the only way to break the current impasse, without going back on the promise to the electorate. The problem is what question to put, it can't be the May agreement if it is voted down in parliament, it can't be a no-deal brexit if there is an amendment to remove this option from the drawing board. It will simply have to be: "Do you want to stay in the EU?"; Yes or Yes? The electorate should be able to answer that question correctly.

Yes or yes, that's a good referendum, I vote Troy for World President.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

You are correct.

Remoaners and the EU are acting like babies and are now just desperate to get their own way. Sadly for them, we've already had a referendum, the result was to leave, and that's what's gonna happen. There will be no second referendum - British democracy doesn't work that way, and whatever the result things would get worse: 1) if the leave vote wins again then the remoaners will just keep moaning; 2) if a vote to stay wins then the Leave voters will rightly be up in arms. Another vote is a lose lose scenario and the politicians know that.

Unfortunately that makes sense, which gives substance to rumour that Downing Street may try to sneak in a Ref2, hopefully unnoticed.

Originally Posted by Troy

Well the Brexit camp had been whinging and moaning since 1975, until they got their second referendum. It will actually be the third referendum and those that wish to remain in the EU won't be waiting another 40 years.

Are you suggesting we reject the result of a 2 year old referendum because it didn't go your way, and accept the result of a 40-year old referendum because it did?

Originally Posted by Switch

The head of the WTO sees no problems for UK trading outside the bloc, post Brexit .

Do you have a link to support that statement?

I'm pretty sure that's not what he said back in the Summer.

Originally Posted by Mandaloopy

I suspect the leave date will be extended as Brexiteers don't have a plan or apparently any understanding of modern economics- just a punch of victim card playing about poor wee Little England. It can take decades to secure world trade deals- we're going to lose a load when we leave as they are tied up with the EU. Besides, what nation would want to deal with an insignificant little rock that defaults and refuses to pay what it owes by law?

There should never have been a referendum in the first place imo. I suppose Tommeh "Ten Names" Robinson will make another crying video about it begging for more money.

There's something to be said for an EU army too imo- all this saber rattling from the likes of Russia needs a deterrent.

Good idea for an EU army, that should keep Russia at bay for all of ten minutes. Shall we add that to free everything else, or pick say Germany to fund it now that Frau has billions to spare having refused to sponsor more illegal bailouts?

Which brings us to the real question that nobody wants to answer, now that she has refused to play the farang, who will be dropping a coin or two into the next round of begging bowls?